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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

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    Default Spell Energy Cost

    This is supposed to be a way of making spellcasting characters A.) more balenced and B.) more in tune with what much fantasy literature suggests (all readers of Eragon know at least one example of this).

    When casting a spell, the spellcaster takes drain. The drain takes the form of nonlethal damage, as shown on the table.

    Drain
    {table=head]Spell level|Drain
    0|1
    1|1d2
    2|1d4
    3|1d8
    4|1d12
    5|3d8
    6|4d8
    7|4d12
    8|5d12
    9|6d12
    Per +1|+1d12
    Epic|4d6/10 points of DC (round up)[/table]

    Drain can only increase nonlethal damage to being equal to the target's current hit points. However, if this occurs, the target takes extra damage equal to the difference between the rolled damage and the target's current hit points. Also, see the table below.

    {table=head]Drain damage|Other effects
    1-5|None
    6-10|Stunned for 1 round
    11-15|Stunned for 1 round, 1 Con damage
    16-20|Stunned for 1 round, 2 Con damage
    21-25|Stunned for 1 round, 3 Con damage, 1 Con drain
    26-30|Stunned for 1 round, 4 Con damage, 1 Con drain
    31-35|Stunned for 1 round, 5 Con damage, 2 Con drain, 1 Str damage
    36-40|Stunned for 1 round, 6 Con damage, 2 Con drain, 1 Str damage
    41-45|Stunned for 1 round, 7 Con damage, 3 Con drain, 1 Str damage
    46-50|Stunned for 1 round, 8 Con damage, 3 Con drain, 2 Str damage
    51-55|Stunned for 1 round, 9 Con damage, 4 Con drain, 2 Str damage[/table]
    ...and so on.


    What do you think? Will it balence spellcasters?
    Last edited by GreatWyrmGold; 2009-06-28 at 06:54 AM.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    No. Honestly - all these drains and skill check things people make trying to 'reign in' spellcasters? You forget something. Most of the 'broken' spells only require you to use 1-3 spells, not a bunch. And a small amount of drain from that is like slapping them on the wrist.

    Put all the 'drawbacks' you want on it - it will still be overpowered until someone gets off their butt and redoes the SPELLS THEMSELVES. Until then, don't try to mask it with small, temporary fixes! That is just insulting to spellcasters.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    J.Gellert's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    And seriously, if you want people to not play spellcasters, say you don't allow them in your game, don't let people play them and then punish them for it.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    Okay. Ix-nay on the alence-bay ix-fay. (If this is Pig Latin, what does "nix" mean?)
    But, no one disagrees that it's more in line with, say, Eragon?
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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    Negative LA Assignment Thread
    The Tale of Demman, Second King of Ireland, a CKII AAR, won a WritAAR of the Week award. Winner of Villainous Competition 8
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    Ooh...looking back over this, I see just how delibating this is at high levels.
    Should I change that?
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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    Negative LA Assignment Thread
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    I don't think that it will work for spellcasters in general, but it might be a good way of starting a new base class. A spell caster that has high HD, can cast a great many spells per day, but cannot cast extremely high level spells. The last part is to avoid 8th and 9th level spells that can break the game with a single cast, making the damage limited.

    I'm not very familiar with Eragon, so I couldn't compare that and your system. However I have seen examples of literature in which characters with psychic powers suffered similar effects.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    I don't think that trying to give spellcasters the flavor of a very mediocre series of books is a good way to nerf them, especially considering that drain is pretty much negligable and most spell combinations still work despite it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    Trying to make magic sync up with its portrayals in books and manga is something of a fixation for designers and it's been going on since the first RPG was created.

    Gary Gygax himself designed D&D magic around the principals that drive magic in Jack Vance's Dying Earth book series [which i really like and Wizards somewhat missed the point of when they replaced the recharge times with an hour of preparation but I digress].

    My own skill and feat magic system is based around the magic portrayed in Buffy prior to Willow and the Uber-Mages thing [the books show this off better apparently] and a series of comic books i used to read as a child.

    The Dragonlance setting has a system of magic similar to what you're going for here, and thanks to a misreading of the Dragonlance 3.5 campaign setting on my part, we created a spellcasting system based on the books, which i shall now share. Note this is based mostly on the character's behaviour where magic is concerned, not what they say [the setting 'officially' uses a Vancian system]:

    Note: I'd put this in a spoiler pulldown but i'm a newb and have no idea how...

    Stressful Casting/Channelling:
    Spellcasting in the setting is difficult and harsh on the body. Note that this is derived from a situation with no 'natural' casters so there is no fix for Sorcerers.
    1: Spellcasters do not have a progression of spells per day. Instead they have their normal progression of spells known [2 per level plus those learned from others for Wizards] and may memorise a number of spells equal to their Casting Attribute modifier plus their level by spending an hour with their spellbook in the morning.
    2: A character may not prepare spells with a spell level greater than half their class level [rounded up]. Characters are considered to have all of the Cantrips or Orisons they know memorised in addition to their conventional spells.
    3: Spells that are memorised for the day can be cast at will but a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + Double the spell level must be made when each spell is cast.
    3b:If the save is failed, the spell still functions but the caster is Fatigued. If the caster is already Fatigued, he becomes Exhausted. If he continues to cast while Exhausted and fails another save, he falls Unconscious for 1d4 hours and must make a DC 15 save or die [Natural '1's are not a failure on this save].
    3c: If a save is failed by 5 or more, the Caster is stunned for 1 round. Should it be failed by 10 or more, they are stunned for 2 rounds. This manifests differently in each person but usually consists of violent headaches or nosebleeds.

    In play, we've not had issues with it. The Rastalin equivilent mage is something of a stock character, along with the high Con fatty mage. As an aside, this makes multiclass mages longer lived casters than pure casters but nowhere near as powerful. If you want to a slightly more anime style casting power, simply tie the caster level of effects to the character level rather than that of the casting class.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Spell Energy Cost

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    I don't think that trying to give spellcasters the flavor of a very mediocre series of books is a good way to nerf them, especially considering that drain is pretty much negligable and most spell combinations still work despite it.
    Mediocre?
    Plus, there's probably some books or seiries thereof I've missed.
    And, risking Con damage/drain while casting a high-level spell striketh me not as "neligable."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Trying to make magic sync up with its portrayals in books and manga is something of a fixation for designers and it's been going on since the first RPG was created.

    Gary Gygax himself designed D&D magic around the principals that drive magic in Jack Vance's Dying Earth book series [which i really like and Wizards somewhat missed the point of when they replaced the recharge times with an hour of preparation but I digress].

    My own skill and feat magic system is based around the magic portrayed in Buffy prior to Willow and the Uber-Mages thing [the books show this off better apparently] and a series of comic books i used to read as a child.

    The Dragonlance setting has a system of magic similar to what you're going for here, and thanks to a misreading of the Dragonlance 3.5 campaign setting on my part, we created a spellcasting system based on the books, which i shall now share. Note this is based mostly on the character's behaviour where magic is concerned, not what they say [the setting 'officially' uses a Vancian system]:

    Note: I'd put this in a spoiler pulldown but i'm a newb and have no idea how...

    Stressful Casting/Channelling:
    Spellcasting in the setting is difficult and harsh on the body. Note that this is derived from a situation with no 'natural' casters so there is no fix for Sorcerers.
    1: Spellcasters do not have a progression of spells per day. Instead they have their normal progression of spells known [2 per level plus those learned from others for Wizards] and may memorise a number of spells equal to their Casting Attribute modifier plus their level by spending an hour with their spellbook in the morning.
    2: A character may not prepare spells with a spell level greater than half their class level [rounded up]. Characters are considered to have all of the Cantrips or Orisons they know memorised in addition to their conventional spells.
    3: Spells that are memorised for the day can be cast at will but a Fortitude save with a DC of 10 + Double the spell level must be made when each spell is cast.
    3b:If the save is failed, the spell still functions but the caster is Fatigued. If the caster is already Fatigued, he becomes Exhausted. If he continues to cast while Exhausted and fails another save, he falls Unconscious for 1d4 hours and must make a DC 15 save or die [Natural '1's are not a failure on this save].
    3c: If a save is failed by 5 or more, the Caster is stunned for 1 round. Should it be failed by 10 or more, they are stunned for 2 rounds. This manifests differently in each person but usually consists of violent headaches or nosebleeds.

    In play, we've not had issues with it. The Rastalin equivilent mage is something of a stock character, along with the high Con fatty mage. As an aside, this makes multiclass mages longer lived casters than pure casters but nowhere near as powerful. If you want to a slightly more anime style casting power, simply tie the caster level of effects to the character level rather than that of the casting class.
    Cool. I got the "More spellcasters have been killed by the writings of Jack Vance than by any single villain" thing, you didn't have to explain it to me. Thanks, anyway.
    I'm the GWG from Bay12 and a bunch of other places.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
    Quotes, more

    Negative LA Assignment Thread
    The Tale of Demman, Second King of Ireland, a CKII AAR, won a WritAAR of the Week award. Winner of Villainous Competition 8
    Fanfic

    Avatar by Recaiden.

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