Shifters...why?

[JellyPooga]

Shifters (Eberron Campaign Setting)...just why? I don't get them. Sure, I can dig the whole 'descendant of lycanthropes' schtick, but is it me or do their abilities just plain suck? I can't see any good reason to play them outside of fluff and even then I'd rather just play another race with a Lycanthrope Bloodline (UA).

It wouldn't be so bad if their Shifting ability was usable more than once a day, but being limited to less than a minute of whatever single ability they chose just doesn't seem enough to balance the complete lack of anything else going for them.

Someone please tell me the appeal of these peculiar creatures! There must be something I'm missing...

[FoE]

Furry appeal?

[Morty]

I have to say that this question occured to me as well. I mean, they're not bad, just... meh. Sort of like Elven Subrace #2331.

[Adumbration]

Well, I once made a 1st level shifter barbarian with landspeed of 85 ft (as a move action). It's good for at least stacking on rages on top of each other.

Let's see if I can dreg it up... Longstrider Shifter Whirling Frenzy barbarian with Longstrider Elite, Shifter agility and Dash. At 1st level it was 2/day for 8 rounds. Flaws were in use, of course.

[Zaq]

I agree that they're really underpowered until you start taking tons of Shifter Feats... at which point you're accepting that you're not spending feats on, you know, your class and related abilities.

I think a reasonable homebrew fix would be to increase the number of times per day you can Shift based on hit dice... maybe 1/2 HD per day, or 1/3 HD + CON? Just kind of brainstorming here.

Certain Shifter-types can nova decently (for example, a Shifter totemist who chooses her soulmelds wisely can get even more natural weapons than a vanilla totemist, and we all know what that means), but I still don't see that as being worth the drawbacks.

The Longtooth Elite trait is superb for a Shifter who has a different means of gaining a bite attack (Wild shape, soulmelds, the Hunger domain, or something else), since unlike most other "{Shifter Trait} Elite" feats, it doesn't specify "while shifting." Whether this is RAI is debatable. (Whether it is worth building a character around is ALSO debatable.)

Overall, though, they seem much more like a gimmick than a playable race. They just don't get enough to distinguish themselves. I've heard that some of their racial sub levels are interesting, but I haven't really thought about them very hard, so I have no opinion of my own to give on them.

[Yora]

I think it's all "cultural". Eberron is a world very rich in fluff, it breathes it. I think it's quite clearly not designed for optimization-campaigns and written with the intention to take several sub-optimal choices, just because it's cool to do it.
If you want a really strong barbarian or ranger character, shifter may not be a very good choice. But I think it's rather intended the other way round: "Hey, this fluff is cool. I really want to see how a member of this race fares in the world of Eberron."
I'm not a huge Eberron fan, but the basic idea behind shifters sounds pretty cool to me from a roleplaying perspective. Maybe it doesn't live up to its full potential, I don't know about that. But when it was written, I'm pretty sure the idea was "I think this concept really sound cool."

It's funny. The first five post all try to figue out the Shifters combat stats.

[Xallace]

Saurian Shifters (from Dragon) get two shifter traits in addition to all of the regular shifter features. That's a little better mechanically, plus Saurian Shifters are also descended from were-dinosaurs, which is campaign-explodingly awesome.

Seems like a step in the right direction to me.

[wadledo]

Shifters have access to the only druid PrC that's both decent and not cheese.
That is all my argument.

[JellyPooga]

Shifters have access to the only druid PrC that's both decent and not cheese.
That is all my argument.

Which is...?

[mistformsquirrl]

I think it's all "cultural". Eberron is a world very rich in fluff, it breathes it. I think it's quite clearly not designed for optimization-campaigns and written with the intention to take several sub-optimal choices, just because it's cool to do it.
If you want a really strong barbarian or ranger character, shifter may not be a very good choice. But I think it's rather intended the other way round: "Hey, this fluff is cool. I really want to see how a member of this race fares in the world of Eberron."
I'm not a huge Eberron fan, but the basic idea behind shifters sounds pretty cool to me from a roleplaying perspective. Maybe it doesn't live up to its full potential, I don't know about that. But when it was written, I'm pretty sure the idea was "I think this concept really sound cool."

It's funny. The first five post all try to figue out the Shifters combat stats.

Agreed <^_^> This is precisely why I personally enjoy them. (Then again I'm the weirdo who took Dreamsight Shifter on a Fighter. >.> *shrug*)

[TheThan]

Comic book appeal

Wanna play wolverine? You can
Wanna play spiderman? You can

[Worira]

It's funny. The first five post all try to figue out the Shifters combat stats.

Well, yes. That's because that's what the topic is about.

[Gnorman]

Which is...?

Moonspeaker (Races of Eberron).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The 1/day shifting isn't that great, but if you take the Shifter feats instead of regular ones, it turns into something you have up every battle. And since most of the Shifter feats are the same as real feats(Shifter Multiattack, etc), except for also boosting your shifting, it's not a real issue.
Even without that, though, you get:

• +2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha. Not great, but decent stat boosts for a meleer.
• Low Light Vision
• +2 to skills no one cares about
• 1/day +2 to another stat, and an addiional benefit

Not great, certainly no Lesser Assimar or Dwarf, but not a half-elf either. Mechanically, it's unique among races, and it's got decent fluff. I've never played one, but I've been mostly forced into FR, so I've never had the opportunity. Not a useless race, certainly.

[AslanCross]

I find Shifters do really well as Warblades, especially of the Tiger Claw variety. Longstride Shifter +Longstride Elite + Shifter Acrobatics + Max Jump Ranks = Never fail a jump check again.

[Devils_Advocate]

Like half-orcs, shifters aren't bad for some builds, but would be more balanced without their Int penalty. A race that's supposed to be part human shouldn't get screwed on skill points like that, darn it!

[Sinfire Titan]

Shifter Totemists don't care about half of their feats, and can afford to spend them on other Shifter feats to improve the Shifter abilities. In fact, one of the good races to play as for a Totem Rager is Shifter, due to the Con increase.

[T.G. Oskar]

For once, if you're playing Moonspeaker or Bloodclaw Master, your shifting gets slightly improved in terms of length and usage per day.

Still: most of the Shifter feats are impressively good, even though you get less slots for other feats. A Shifter Rogue will find itself challenged between raising its Sneak Attack choices (with Craven and whatnot), or raising its racial traits (say, with Longstrider, or Cliffwalk, or even Longtooth). Classes that have a lot of feats, such as Fighter, or that gain a specific amount of bonus feats and don't need much general feats afterwards (Ranger, for example), gain loads of benefits from shifter feats.

A Shifter could be argued that gains access to Warshaper, which grants it nifty benefits especially if it has a natural attack trait, such as Gorebrute, Longtooth or Razorclaw.

The Elite versions of the traits are more often than not great (Longtooth causes Con damage, Swiftwing allows you limited flight, Razorclaw allows either pounce or rage), and the mechanic is innovative, as well as a great incentive to take racial feats.

If you gain access to Oriental Adventures (or the Dragon update to the book), I'd point out at Shapeshifter. It's almost custom-made for Shifters, as it allows multiple shiftings per day, spellcasting that may very well benefit a Ranger (much like Paladin/Cleric/Fist of Raziel benefits a Paladin), and Wildshape (which usually isn't gained by Rangers unless you take the variant) Couple with at least four levels of Warshaper, and you can pretty much remain transformed as much as you want.

Finally, do not forget the benefit of the (shapechanger) subtype. Returning to base form as a move action is a plus; evensomore when you're transformed into something you may not like.

[RTGoodman]

I never really paid them any attention in 3.x, but in 4E I like Shifters quite a bit for the mechanics. The ability to use their racial powers as an Encounter power is good, and they make particularly good members of several classes (Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Cleric, and several others). Were I to play one, I'd probably refluff it as a normal lycanthrope, but really I'm pretty neutral about the normal fluff.

[Danin]

Well, the fact that I'm currently rolling up an entirely shifter party might speak to my bias a touch, but I happen to like them. I enjoy the flavor, and the role playing applications are great, especially if you give their entry in races of eberron a read.

While I admit they certainly aren't the most powerful race in the world, they do have their place. Their racial substitution levels are solid, they have access to the moonspeaker prestige class, and the shifter feats are all quit solid. They are certainly on par with elves in my opinion.

Granted, this is coming fro the guy who is still waiting on playing his Worg knight and his goblin ranger...

[sonofzeal]

I once used a single ECL4 Shifter as a recurring foe against an entire team of ECL4 players, and he rather dominated. I went archery-rogue, using the shifter breed that gets a climb speed, allowing him to Rapid-Shot Sneak-Attack from some high perch and use his excellent maneuverability to leverage terrain to his advantage and retreat after the party begins mounting a counteroffensive. It's only a significant strategy at low levels where climb speeds are a big advantage, but it still worked out really well.

[PrGo]

A Shifter could be argued that gains access to Warshaper, which grants it nifty benefits especially if it has a natural attack trait, such as Gorebrute, Longtooth or Razorclaw.

A Shifter CAN become a Warshaper, since he is Humanoid with (Shapeshifter) subtype, which is enough to become one. That class alone makes shifter an awesome race in my eyes

[T.G. Oskar]

A Shifter CAN become a Warshaper, since he is Humanoid with (Shapeshifter) subtype, which is enough to become one. That class alone makes shifter an awesome race in my eyes

Probably haven't seen Shapeshifter then.

I know it's capable. My second delve into D&D was with a Beasthide Shifter Ranger/Fighter/Warshaper/Weretouched Master. He was mostly the group's healer, and he delved both into two weapon fighting (with the Fighter bonus feats) and ranged combat. I would have gone Cliffwalk, but somehow I was more attracted by higher AC.

He reached around level 13-14 before the campaign ended. He had already the Morphic Weapons ability, and I was setting up Extra Shifter Trait (Longtooth) and Longtooth Elite for the wounding bite attack. Had a legacy weapon composite longbow, a Brilliant Energy Scimitar, a Psychokinetic Crysteel Shortsword, and assorted weaponry around. Plus, did I mention he had good Charisma, and hence by roleplay he was entitled to Leadership? And had a residential tower in Sharn, a tattoo shop, and a bunch of people following him?

Those were good times.

[Adumbration]

Probably haven't seen Shapeshifter then.

I know it's capable. My second delve into D&D was with a Beasthide Shifter Ranger/Fighter/Warshaper/Weretouched Master. He was mostly the group's healer, and he delved both into two weapon fighting (with the Fighter bonus feats) and ranged combat. I would have gone Cliffwalk, but somehow I was more attracted by higher AC.

... Exactly how did you heal with him?

[T.G. Oskar]

... Exactly how did you heal with him?

Handy use of Wands of Cure Light Wounds. Basically, having no healer meant that I had to take the healing duties, so the DM pretty much waived the caster level checks being spell-trigger items, I could use them. I dropped right around level 6 Ranger, though.

[bosssmiley]

Comic book appeal

Wanna play wolverine? You can
Wanna play spiderman? You can

*crowns The Than King of Thread*

All must kneel before his perfect summation of Shifters as fanboy bait.

Warforged give you magic robot.
Shifters give you Wolverine.
Kalashtar give you magic psi-bishies.
Puttyfaces give you...errr... ???

[Asheram]

Warforged give you magic robot.
Shifters give you Wolverine.
Kalashtar give you magic psi-bishies.
Puttyfaces give you...errr... ???

Puttyfaces give you Mystique, when we're going on the X-men franchise with Wolverine.
Kalashtar... I could really see a female kalashtar as Phoenix now.

[Pie Guy]

Is it just me, or does anyone have an urge to start an Xmen campaign?

[Doc Roc]

Shifters are fantastic, quite powerful, and nicely embedded in the eberron world. I'm not sure I grok what you aren't seeing, so maybe a stronger\longer explanation would help?

[Person_Man]

The pre-errata Weretouched Master was ridiculous. 5 levels of the Bear form gave you something like +16 Str, +2 Dex, +8 Con, claws, Improved Grab, Frightful Presence, and 2 bonus shifter feats.