Increase attack bonus with BAB +0

[yilduz]

I'm looking for ways to increase melee attack bonuses with a BAB of 0. I was thinking of weapon finesse, but I never realized it requires BAB +1.

Is there anything else?

[PrismaticPIA]

What kind of wonky-ass build would have +0 BAB? Even casters have a BAB of 1 by level 2.

[d13]

Maybe... JUST maybe... He's trying to achieve something (still unspecified) using a 3/4 or less BAB class at first level?

[yilduz]

What kind of wonky-ass build would have +0 BAB? Even casters have a BAB of 1 by level 2.

A build that is meant more for background than optimization. +1 on the BAB doesn't come until level 4, which means weapon finesse can't even be taken until level 6. The character in question is MUCH more of a support character than anything, buffing the party, etc... but I'd like to be able to hit if necessary, because if it's necessary for this character to go into combat, a hit will be very much needed.

[FMArthur]

Use the fractional BAB rules. They're in Unearthed Arcana and it just means that every level of 3/4 BAB classes actually get +0.75 BAB and 1/2 classes get +0.5 BAB. This is probably how it was intended initially to work but they didn't want to complicate things further for what was at the time a rare choice (multiclassing).

[JaxGaret]

Use fractional BAB. And saves for that matter.

EDIT: ninja'd

[yilduz]

Use the fractional BAB rules. They're in Unearthed Arcana and it just means that every level of 3/4 BAB classes actually get +0.75 BAB and 1/2 classes get +0.5 BAB.

That's actually a really cool idea. I don't think Unearthed Arcana is in the "approved list" for campaign material, though.

I'll check with the DM. Thank you for the idea.

[LibraryOgre]

If he's this background, why does he need a attack bonus?

However, you might look at Masterwork weapons or tools, or the Point Blank Shot feat (which works for missiles within 30').

[ghost_warlock]

What kind of wonky-ass build would have +0 BAB? Even casters have a BAB of 1 by level 2.

Many multiclass builds such as a rogue1/wizard1 heading towards arcane trickster (all core, btw) would have BAB0 until at least 3rd level. Or are you just trolling?

@yilduz: Learn to love magic weapon? Or, try to fit a level of swashbuckler or fighter (bonus feat) in somewhere, which will probably mess with your build but might be worth it anyway.

Otherwise, if your dex is decent, focus on attacking with a crossbow or other ranged weapon. If caught in melee, fight defensively and/or withdraw. If cornered, take your inevitable death like a man!

[yilduz]

Many multiclass builds such as a rogue1/wizard1 heading towards arcane trickster (all core, btw) would have BAB0 until at least 3rd level. Or are you just trolling?

@yilduz: Learn to love magic weapon? Or, try to fit a level of swashbuckler or fighter (bonus feat) in somewhere, which will probably mess with your build but might be worth it anyway.

Otherwise, if your dex is decent, focus on attacking with a crossbow or other ranged weapon. If caught in melee, fight defensively and/or withdraw. If cornered, take your inevitable death like a man!

The build is actually very similar to rogue/wizard. That is a very nice spell, one I didn't know about (I've never been much of a caster), but one I'll definitely take.

If this character is fighting, it will be ranged most of the time - but as a support character that does everything he can to help the party, it may be important to be in melee once in a while (flank, etc).

Thank you for that post. It has been incredibly helpful.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Many multiclass builds such as a rogue1/wizard1 heading towards arcane trickster (all core, btw) would have BAB0 until at least 3rd level. Or are you just trolling?

Until I read Unearthed Arcana, I didn't realize that Fractional BAB wasn't the default. Don't assume people are trolling, they may just be mistaken about something.

On a related note, I've been trying to figure out the best build possible with 0 BAB at level 20, using the fractional BAB rules. I know Survivor and War Hulk, but are there any others?

[AstralFire]

Seconding the Unearthed Arcana Rules. Honestly, I did that way before UA came out. Anything else shafts a player trying to get creative with multiclassing for RP, because there's basically no way that kind of build ever results in a min-max wonder.

[Hat-Trick]

Lots of LA. Take a level in rogue or something and fill in the rest with templates.

[ghost_warlock]

Don't assume people are trolling, they may just be mistaken about something.

It was more his specific wording that lead me to consider that possibility, rather than the content of the question. Remember kids, tone doesn't really translate over the internet.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Lots of LA. Take a level in rogue or something and fill in the rest with templates.

Maybe. Both the PrCs I listed have BAB +0 over the course of their lives IIRC, and you can enter Survivor at level 2. If there are more, this might be viable without LA.

[Quietus]

Maybe. Both the PrCs I listed have BAB +0 over the course of their lives IIRC, and you can enter Survivor at level 2. If there are more, this might be viable without LA.

War Hulk requires BAB +5 to enter it.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

War Hulk requires BAB +5 to enter it.

...Darn. And I'm fairly sure there are no others. Only way to make it work then would be to find 20 precision-damage based classes and PrCs with 3/4ths BAB and then not use fractional. Darn darn darn.

[yilduz]

...Darn. And I'm fairly sure there are no others. Only way to make it work then would be to find 20 precision-damage based classes and PrCs with 3/4ths BAB and then not use fractional. Darn darn darn.

That would be a pretty interesting concept. I'd like to see the build you come up with.

[Quietus]

...Darn. And I'm fairly sure there are no others. Only way to make it work then would be to find 20 precision-damage based classes and PrCs with 3/4ths BAB and then not use fractional. Darn darn darn.

Mm. If you do, try and also find a few that also increase spellcasting; If you can pick up second-level Assassin casting, you can get Wraithstrike. With 20 precision-damage based classes, you won't need more than one round.

I also suggest getting that Spot the Whatever skill trick in Complete... Adventurer? Scoundrel? Essentially, spot check vs. opponent's AC, to make your next attack ignore armor bonuses. Then you strike from hiding against their now flat-footed, touch AC, so they only get deflection, sacred/profane, and size modifiers to their AC. Alternatively, True Strike->surprise round->wraithstrike first full round. With TWF and Improved Initiative, there's a good chance you're landing your attacks with True Strike/Wraithstrike, and that means 60d6 damage between surprise and first rounds, if you can land all three.

[yilduz]

Mm. If you do, try and also find a few that also increase spellcasting; If you can pick up second-level Assassin casting, you can get Wraithstrike. With 20 precision-damage based classes, you won't need more than one round.

I also suggest getting that Spot the Whatever skill trick in Complete... Adventurer? Scoundrel? Essentially, spot check vs. opponent's AC, to make your next attack ignore armor bonuses. Then you strike from hiding against their now flat-footed, touch AC, so they only get deflection, sacred/profane, and size modifiers to their AC. Alternatively, True Strike->surprise round->wraithstrike first full round. With TWF and Improved Initiative, there's a good chance you're landing your attacks with True Strike/Wraithstrike, and that means 60d6 damage between surprise and first rounds, if you can land all three.

True strike only works for the first attack.
Also, if you're using wraithstrike, you don't really need that spot the whatever skill, since they'd essentially be doing the same thing.

That is a cool idea, though. It makes me want to try to build it.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

If this character is fighting, it will be ranged most of the time - but as a support character that does everything he can to help the party, it may be important to be in melee once in a while (flank, etc).

In that case thwn don't forget to do things like charge when you want to hit something. Or when in melee and not flanking the rogue then aid another may actually help more. Or when in melee to provide the rogue with a flank the fight defensively...no sense in you getting hurt when you are just trying to help.

[Quietus]

True strike only works for the first attack.
Also, if you're using wraithstrike, you don't really need that spot the whatever skill, since they'd essentially be doing the same thing.

That is a cool idea, though. It makes me want to try to build it.

Yup. Cast True Strike, then initiate the surprise round with a Sneak Attack for 20d6+20 (or more; Assassin's Stance and some magic weapon increase sneak attack dice beyond that, if you can find enough sneak attack classes/prc's) with a +20 attack bonus that ignores any form of concealment. The +20 damage is from Craven, by the way.

First round of combat, use your second-level Assassin (or anything else that gives you Wraithstrike) casting to drop touch attacks as a swift action, then full attack with two weapons for two more hits of 20d6+20 each. Make *absolutely certain* you can win initiative; Massive dex, improved initiative, and that feat that makes it so you never roll lower than 10 on Initiative rolls will help a lot with this, although Foresight wizards will still give you a run for your money.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

There's a weapon enhancement that gives you a BaB equal to 3/4 or your own, whichever is higher, for purposes of wielding the weapon.

[dspeyer]

Lots of LA. Take a level in rogue or something and fill in the rest with templates.

How about a highly evolved vampire pixie ninja? All the SLAs and SUs are cha-based, so those should work nicely. Defenses are a problem, with 6 hp. At least ninja should get the AC pretty high.

[Yuki Akuma]

There's a weapon enhancement that gives you a BaB equal to 3/4 or your own, whichever is higher, for purposes of wielding the weapon.

It's in Complete Arcane, it's called Skillful, and it's a +2 equivalent weapon enhancement.

It's very, very good for heavily multiclassed second-string warriors.

It also makes you auto-proficient, meaning you could just pick any old weapon as long as you can afford a +3 equivalent weapon.

[Jayabalard]

Don't assume people are trolling, they may just be mistaken about something.

From reading the text that you quoted, it looks to me like his assumption was that PrismaticPIA was mistaken, but that it was a possibility that PrismaticPIA was trolling instead.

[Gnaeus]

Some of the devotion feats in complete champion add to your to hit. Most of them are only for 1 minute once per day, but for all I know his build has a cleric level in there somewhere. Chaos, Law, and Knowledge might be winners depending on the character.

[Person_Man]

Buy a Wand of Flame Blade and a Wand of Improved Invisibility. Relatively cheap, effective, and core.

[Fitz10019]

The build is actually very similar to rogue/wizard. That is a very nice spell, one I didn't know about (I've never been much of a caster), but one I'll definitely take.

If this character is fighting, it will be ranged most of the time - but as a support character that does everything he can to help the party, it may be important to be in melee once in a while (flank, etc).

Thank you for that post. It has been incredibly helpful.

If you're not a melee build, don't take a melee feat (unless the DM allows retraining feats at later levels). Whatever your character's main role is, take feats that make him better at it. The party should be well-rounded -- each character should be a specialist.

If you want to 'help' in melee during early levels until your multiclass concept matures enough to be useful, use the Aid Another action.

Also note, flanking does not require a successful attack (or an attack at all), it only requires that you threaten in melee. Simply standing in the right place with a weapon in your hand is enough. You could carry a longspear and stand ten feet away, and you will be helping, even if you aren't proficient with the longspear.

[yilduz]

If you're not a melee build, don't take a melee feat (unless the DM allows retraining feats at later levels). Whatever your character's main role is, take feats that make him better at it. The party should be well-rounded -- each character should be a specialist.

If you want to 'help' in melee during early levels until your multiclass concept matures enough to be useful, use the Aid Another action.

Also note, flanking does not require a successful attack (or an attack at all), it only requires that you threaten in melee. Simply standing in the right place with a weapon in your hand is enough. You could carry a longspear and stand ten feet away, and you will be helping, even if you aren't proficient with the longspear.

That's a pretty good idea. I'm not sure I'll go with it (I may), but it's pretty smart.

The character really isn't built to be a ranged fighter or a melee fighter, he isn't built with focus on combat at all. He needs to be able to help if needed, though. The rest of the party includes a druid, cleric, sorcerer, ranger, factotum. Among the ranger, druid, cleric and factotum, we seem to have enough melee and ranged power. I'm the scout-like character. When it comes to combat, my main job is to ensure we're always able to be prepared for any combats up ahead, and make sure we get the surprise round. Outside of combat, I'm the skill monkey, but I also help with buffs, healing, whatever else.

Due to the suggestions given in this thread, I won't likely be taking any feats for this reason. The spells will work well enough.

Thank you for the post.