[3.5] Polymorph/Metamorphosis fix idea

[ghost_warlock]

Sorry if this has been proposed before...

Short and sweet:
Essentially, the idea is to make the spell/power function like the PHBII druid shapeshifter variant ability for the duration of the spell/power.

Polymorph/metamorphosis would grant any of the any of the predator, aerial, ferocious slayer, or forest avenger form based on caster/manifester level. So, a 7th-level caster could use the predator form (and gain all of its upgrades) or aerial form (and its upgrades), but be unable to take the ferocious slayer form. The spell/power could cap out with the final upgrade to the forest avenger form at 14th level.

Shapechange/Greater metamorphosis would then grant the elemental fury form (including the Great Cleave upgrade at caster/manifester level 18).

So, what do you think?

[kamikasei]

Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm.

It's a good idea, but a bit lacking... mostly because Polymorph, even if overpowered, is supposed to grant versatility and the shapeshift forms are clearly geared towards combat only.

What about using a different model with similar balance but more variety - say, the astral construct ability menus? (No idea if/how one could adapt those to a spell...)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There are plenty of Polymorph subschool spells in PH2, CM, and SC, it would be easier to just outright ban Polymorph, PAO, Shapechange, (Greater) Metamorphosis, and even Alter Self. There are enough spells of that subschool, as well as the Bite of the Were___ line of spells, to do what you're describing without any additional effort.

[Lycanthromancer]

I agree that polymorph/metamorphosis should be all about versatility, rather than merely how much damage can be done in combat.

Check my powers revision for a level 1 metamorphosis that's versatile, powerful, and still (I think) relatively balanced. It covers the effects of several other powers, but those effects are generally more expensive to get via augmentation, are less effective than the powers they simulate, have a much smaller duration, or are otherwise just not as good as the original source.

Lemme know if that sparks any ideas.

[ghost_warlock]

Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm.

It's a good idea, but a bit lacking... mostly because Polymorph, even if overpowered, is supposed to grant versatility and the shapeshift forms are clearly geared towards combat only.

Well, the forms may be geared towards combat but with a little creativity they can be put to good use outside of combat, too (see below).

There are plenty of Polymorph subschool spells in PH2, CM, and SC, it would be easier to just outright ban Polymorph, PAO, Shapechange, (Greater) Metamorphosis, and even Alter Self. There are enough spells of that subschool, as well as the Bite of the Were___ line of spells, to do what you're describing without any additional effort.

That's all well and good for games that utilize those various supplements but what about those that prefer to keep things a bit simpler with just Core+PHBII? Personally, I'm much more inclined to adjust core and ban splat. (Of course, I say that while working with a buddy on a setting that's essentially ToB + XPH and hardly uses any core at all! )

And, anyway, this solution doesn't address psionics at all since WotC didn't print stacks of splatbooks with alternate psionic shapeshifting powers. (Plus, the psychometabolism discipline no longer has a capstone ability if greater metamorphosis is simply banned.)

What about using a different model with similar balance but more variety - say, the astral construct ability menus? (No idea if/how one could adapt those to a spell...)

Looks like Lycanthromancer did essentially that...but then exploded the options even further.

I agree that polymorph/metamorphosis should be all about versatility, rather than merely how much damage can be done in combat.

Check my powers revision for a level 1 metamorphosis that's versatile, powerful, and still (I think) relatively balanced. It covers the effects of several other powers, but those effects are generally more expensive to get via augmentation, are less effective than the powers they simulate, have a much smaller duration, or are otherwise just not as good as the original source.

Lemme know if that sparks any ideas.

Good grief that's massive! I can really tell you've spent a lot of time thinking things through and working on this. In the end, though, it kind of feels like it's become so flexible that it'd be like grappling pudding to actually use in-game. Or, it's like taking Batman's utility belt and turning it into a single power. Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but how flexible does it really need to be? I can see the need for an aquatic form and a cosmetic, doppleganger-style, mutable disguise form, but otherwise the combat form(s) are going to see the most use.

The issues with the spells/powers as printed is that players can cherry pick forms from Monster Manuals to get just the flexibility they want, as well as abilities that were never intended to be used (i.e., abused) by PCs. In the interest of actual gameplay, it's better for the spells/powers to give the player the ability to choose from a handful of pre-set stat bonuses that can then simply be re-flavored.

Predator form can easily function as virtually any Medium-sized, fast-moving ground creature from the traditional wolf to a dimetrodon to an immature bulette. Aerial form could be a pterosaur or a cloaker. Ferocious slayer models other Large monsters (an adult bulette) easily enough while forest avenger may just as easily be re-fluffed as a T-rex (if you want to get technical, replace the slam attacks with a single bite attack that deals a bit more damage; it's not likely to break the game) or even a stone giant. The massive Str-bonus the forest avenger gives would easily model that of any massive creature and the character could just as easily use the form to dig his friends out of a rockslide as smash a monster. If you just want the massive forms to intimidate, they work well enough for that since being larger than the creature you're trying to intimidate grants a bonus on the skill check.

Once again an aquatic form, and maybe a climbing form, would be useful, but the spell/power shouldn't really be so flexible that it can fit any given situation. To reiterate, a 4th-level ability shouldn't be so flexible that it becomes a skeleton key. (Neither should an 8th-9th-level one, but that's an issue with many other high-level spells/powers.)