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Thread: [3.5] Mordenkainen
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2009-07-01, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Mordenkainen
Quick question - does anyone know where can I find stats for 3.5 Mordenkainen?
Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2009-07-01, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
I think they have him in the Epic Level Handbook somewhere. Not sure though, don't own that one.
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2009-07-01, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Man, how in the nine hells didn't I think of looking there? I flipped through dozens of Dragon/Dungeon Magazines, and he's in ELH...
And HA! I knew my wizard had higher Int than him!Last edited by Gorbash; 2009-07-01 at 11:47 AM.
Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2009-07-01, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Out of curiousity, what are his stats and feats?
I've read some of the background material for greyhawk, and many of the 'Super powerful wizards' really are anything but that.
Like the one who's a ranger 10/wizard 10, with TWF style.
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2009-07-01, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Yes, that is the case mostly. Around here we talk about Wizards with Int 34, Mordenkainen has 27 at lvl 27.
Str 10
Dex 17
Con 18
Int 27
Wis 15
Cha 18
Feats: Great Fortitude, Combat Casting, Brew Potion, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Quicken Spell, Heighten Spell, Craft Wondrous Item, Maximize Spell, Spell Penetration, Craft Staff, Improved Spell Capacity (10th),
Improved Spell Capacity (11th), Improved Spell Capacity (12th), Improved Metamagic, Epic Spellcasting, Epic Spell Penetration.
He can somehow cast 12 spells of 3rd lvl per day.Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2009-07-01, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-07-01, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Only 2 craft feats? Hmmm... You'd expect ring and staff, or rod and staff. Not potion.
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2009-07-01, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-07-01, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-07-01, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
While I certainly agree with the bolded parts... Having Tippy design the famous NPCs? Then it'd be less "Hey guys, Mordenkainen! He's famous! I bet he was some menial task for us to do!" and more "It's Mordenkainen! He knew he'd meet us at least a week in advance, knows how we fight, and if he has it in for us, we're doomed."
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2009-07-01, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-07-01, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
It's Mordenkainen. Those are just the stats he wants you to know.
After all, what's a few casts of mindrape on a few writers when you've saved the world so many times?
I do have a Mordenkainen build in my back pocket, a sort of image in my head. It's how I want to think of the last truly tangible avatar I have for Gary Gygax. Warm, affably omnipotent, strongly neutral, and invested in something larger and better than you or I.Last edited by Doc Roc; 2009-07-01 at 04:04 PM.
Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
DocRoc: to?
Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.
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2009-07-01, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
I'm trying to see what's wrong or why anyone should even care that canonical NPCs aren't twinked out, but I really got nothing.
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2009-07-01, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
It would be quite annoying if people bought the ELH and the NPCs needed rules from other books to worck. Specially books wich hadn't been publicized yet.
Besides ELH is 3.0. By the time 3.5 came out, Mormekdain has gained so many levels and gotten so powerfull that WOTC didn't bothered to publicize his stats again, because they would fill several books of their own and basically come down to "Mormekdain wins".
And even if he had taken toughness as his only feat at all levels, as a 27th level pure wizard he would still be bloody fearsome.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2009-07-01 at 04:25 PM.
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2009-07-01, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Legendary Canonical NPCs, ones who are Epic Casters that the Devils fear, should be able to destroy any low-epic party. That one can't. I'm not talking necessarily Cindy here, but taking Combat Casting? Really? That's not unoptimized, that's saying 'I want an evil party to kill me and take my stuff'.
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-07-01, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
We're not asking for twinked out. We're just asking for sensible, and maybe to follow the tips that they themselves provided. I'm gonna presume we just share completely different perspectives on the Simulationism Vs. Gamism debate. The ELH\SRD themselves have the vast majority of the "tricks" we're talking about.
Because improved metamagic is a really well-hidden feat. :: gently sardonic ::Last edited by Doc Roc; 2009-07-01 at 04:28 PM.
Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
DocRoc: to?
Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.
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2009-07-01, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-07-01, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Falls into the trap of "if you stat it, they will want to kill it". Better to just say that Mordy shows up, nukes the bajebus outa ya, no save, and be done with it. Like the guy who tried to stat up a Supernova...whats the point? It doesn't matter if you roll a hundred thousand dice or a million, likewise it doesn't matter what Mordy's actual stats are. You piss him off, you die.
Game over mang! Game over!
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2009-07-01, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Last edited by Gorbash; 2009-07-01 at 04:41 PM.
Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2009-07-01, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Our group just encountered Mordy in Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk.
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2009-07-01, 04:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
Hmm. According to Wikipedia, Mordenkainen is Gary Gygax's PC Wizard (citation needed). I didn't know that.
I wonder if Nystul, Rary, or Bigby are player characters for other big names in DnD.
Also, can you imagine if Disjunction was invested as a custom spell by a player in a modern game?Last edited by AvatarZero; 2009-07-01 at 04:54 PM.
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2009-07-01, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-07-01, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-07-01, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
There's a sidebar in one of the 4e books that says that all of the high and mighty wizards who have spells/rituals named after them are old Gygaxian Era PCs.
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2009-07-01, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
I recall from some article about something that Gygax wrote that Bigby had brothers named (really) Rigby and Digby. The way it was written it was clear he was talking about an actual game he was involved in, not a story or something.
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2009-07-01, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
They are all NPCs from the world of Greyhawk, Gygax's brainchild. Whether they were PCs or NPCs, I do not know, but they are all from Greyhawk cannon. For instance, Lord Robilar, as mentioned above, was a fighter who was part of the hero's who tricked Iuz (bad guy) and imprisoned him in the ruins beneath Castle Greyhawk. If you can, see if you can get your hands on some of the year 8 Living Greyhawk modules. They involve a lot of showdown between Mordy, Tensor, Rary, Otiluke, and a few other of the famed Circle of 8.
Also, I refer you to www.canonfire.com, the most expansive collection of Greyhawk lore I've ever seen.
Originally Posted by Canonfire
Originally Posted by Mordenkainen
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2009-07-02, 02:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
In one Dragon Magazie should be Iggwilv stats, too. Far more powerfut than mordenkainen, Level 30 or so. If you wonder who's she, take a look in FCI. She was previously known as Natasha (Tasha).
Anyway, when you see Mister M. stats, think about 4 things:
- When it was written, he was core + ELH
- Not everybody play optimized
- He's a Wiz. Can kick you ass anyway with the right spell selection, IMHO
- Mordy was great more for his political manipulations and his "true neutral" attitude.
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2009-07-02, 03:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
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2009-07-02, 03:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Under your bed. :P
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2009-07-02, 04:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Mordenkainen
I don't really think Warm and Affable really apply to the creator of the Tomb of Horrors.
Nor do they really apply to the mage who invented the ultimate weapon to destroy other mages.
Also the whole 'start beating up on Good guys the moment you've finished helping them win, to preserve Balance' thing is kind of mean.