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Thread: The Sereifah

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default The Sereifah

    "Preposterous!"

    "The very notion…is…absurd"

    "We have…exhaustively documented all creatures, native and interloper, to the Inner Planes. There is…no evidence to suggest to the contrary. In short… there are no unknown inner-planar creatures."

    "The author needs to reword his working theory."


    The Inner, like the Outer, Realities are immense. Personifying metaphysical infinity, they are entirely too illimitable for the simple mortal to comprehend. The true scope of their immensity rupturing mortal conscious and raising a tower of ignorance to better protect the mind. We are perpetually constrained in our ability to comprehend and in our ability to understand. For too long have we taken the denizens of these Realities at face value; we know now that similarity does not breed sameness. What then do new and wondrous discoveries await us?

    I point to you the Inner Planes. The Elemental Reality of Fire and the denizens of that plane in particular. We talk about natives when we refer to efreet and salamanders. But at one stage of their existence, they were once interlopers! Yes, I hear you gasp. They are not truly indigenous to the Great Furnace! No, that distinction belongs to the elementals. Yet, it is untrue to say that elementals are native either. They are after all, barely sentient pieces of the plane itself.

    No, I believe we are overlooking something. The missing link between truth and reality.

    -- Eremantarian, excerpt from Missing Pieces, Chapter 1

    "Firstly, I must thank and congratulate Eremantarian. No one man has single-handedly molested relevant facts and common sense as well as he has. He talks about a Great War that drew the forces of these primordial elementals into opposition. Utter nonsense I say! If these were the true 'inheritors of the earth,' they would not fight each other. Morals and ethics? The very concept should be alien to them. By inference, the very notion of fighting each other is absurd."

    -- Avantharam in response to Chapter 3, Foundations of Existence

    Sereifah
    Large Elemental (Extraplanar, Fire)
    Hit Dice:
    18d8+162 (243 hp)
    Initiative: +14
    Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 80 ft. (average)
    Armor Class: 39 (-1 size, +10 Dexterity, +20 natural), touch 19, flat-footed 30
    Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+34
    Attack: Slam +30 melee (2d8+12 + 4d8 fire)
    Full Attack: 2 slams +30 melee (2d8+12 + 4d8 fire) and 4 wings +28 melee (1d8+6 + 4d8 fire)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
    Special Attacks: Continual burn, spell-like abilities, summon elemental
    Special Qualities: Blazing wake, damage reduction 15/-, darkvision 60 ft., fount of fire, great furnace, immunity to fire, poison, sleep effects, paralysis and stunning, low-light vision, partial vulnerability to cold, resistance to acid 10 and electricity 10, spell resistance 28, telepathy 100 ft.
    Saves: Fort +21, Ref +21, Will +21
    Abilities: Str 35, Dex 30, Con 29, Int 24, Wis 24, Cha 26
    Skills:
    Feats: Cleave, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack
    Environment: The Elemental Reality of Fire
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 20
    Treasure: Standard
    Alignment: Always Neutral
    Advancement: 19 – 40 HD (Large), 41 – 54 HD (Huge)

    Few have encountered a sereifah, fewer still have returned to tell of it. The sereifah are quiet enigmas, not much is known of them, and lesser still is known of their histories and how they came to be. There could be some truth to what the scholars posit. After all, subjective theories are often grounded in objective facts. Proof does exist but it's tenuous and highly debated.

    The sereifah are the greatest of the elementals that dominate the Crematorium, a remarkably apt name for the Elemental Reality of Fire, and the true rulers of that Reality. The salamanders and efreet are interlopers, stains upon a plane noted for its neutral purity. Morality and ethics are alien to them, as are concepts of compassion and malevolence. Nothing is left in their wake, save for maybe ashes. While it is untrue to say they exist for no reason other than to burn, their clinical detachment from the immense destruction they cause truly highlights their profoundly alien mindset. They do not back down from combat nor do they instigate it. Rare is the sereifah who appreciates the concept of mercy.

    Sereifah are true loners, solitary beacons upon the firestorm of their own past, present and future. It is true to say that a sereifah is the rival of any powerful fiend or angel though they seldom exercise this point. Neither do they exercise their influence over others of their ilk, deliberately staying out of the politics rife in the Reality of Fire.

    Relations between the efreet, salamanders, other interlopers and the sereifah exist only with a strained courtesy. The interlopers face severe condemnation from the sereifah for tainting this bastion of neutrality with needless morality or ethics, and are forced to bend the knee to the greater power of these incarnations of fire. The efreet chafe at dominion by out-siders, salamanders view the sereifah with enmity while the coldness and aloofness of the sereifah repels the azer. Avoidance by the lesser races is key to any tenuous diplomacy while the sereifah are content to have nothing to do with what are clearly inferiors.

    A sereifah has an intellectual brilliance challenged by few.

    Sereifah appear as tall, slender beings. Their skins burn white-hot with intense heat. Their heads are seemingly bald, though red hot flames lick their scalps, creating the illusion of hair. Four immense pairs of wings, the coloration of hot ember flecked with intense orange fire, spread from their backs. Phoenix-like, they radiate a tremendous heat. Their eyes burn with the intensity of a thousand suns and their high cheekbones frame a face of handsome features.

    Combat

    Blazing Wake (Ex): Sereifah leave roaring infernos behind them. The path of the sereifah's movement burns as a wall of fire spell. Both sides of the wall radiate heat, dealing 2d4 points of damage to those within 10 ft., and 1d4 points of damage to those within 20 ft. Those passing through the wall take 12d6 points of fire damage. The damage halves after every round for 4 rounds, this is due to the flames cooling over those rounds. This quality always benefits from Great Furnace.

    A sereifah can also remain in one place, causing the inferno to arise around them. If the sereifah does not move in the round, a 10 ft. radius flaming circle centered on it is formed, with all the same properties of Blazing Wake.

    Finally, 2/day as a standard action, provided it has caused the blaze to arise centered on it, the sereifah can release a pyroclasm of white-hot flame striking all for 20d8 fire damage within a 30 ft. radius. This ability causes the sereifah to forego the use of spell-like abilities for 1d4 rounds.

    Continual Burn (Ex): All fire damage originating from the sereifah forces the risk of continual burn. Those who suffer fire damage from a sereifah's attacks must succeed on a Reflex save DC 28 or catch fire themselves. This deals one-half of the original fire damage every round until extinguished. The flames can be doused with a Reflex save DC 28 each round or immersion in any nonflammable liquid or any effect that deals at least 4 points of cold damage to the victim. Spells that create water or use water to cause damage also can extinguish the flame. Spells that magically control fire are effective against the flames. The save DC is Constitution-based.

    Fount of Fire (Ex): In their natural state, the sereifah are immense energy beings. When they walk among lesser beings, though, they are chained and tethered to shells that bind and contain their essences. Even so, this does not prevent the release and seepage of these immense energies. A sereifah has the space and reach of a Huge creature and is capable of attacking any creature in those squares.
    While technically elementals, sereifah are in reality ideals of fire; all calculations are as per outsider mechanics.
    So intense is their connection to the Reality of Fire that it ignores the resistance to fire of creatures and affected creatures with immunity to fire still take full damage if they fail on a Fort DC 28 save. The save DC is Constitution-based.
    Additionally, creatures with the fire subtype, and especially elementals, hit by a sereifah's melee attacks gain two negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the sereifah gains two temporary hit points. A sereifah can use its energy drain ability once every 1d4 rounds. Any metal weapon wielded against the sereifah must succeed a Fort DC 28 save or melt away into slag. Additionally, a sereifah can command fire elementals as a cleric of their HD. Finally, any being engaged in a grapple with a sereifah suffers 2d8 points of fire damage; there is no save.

    Great Furnace (Ex): A sereifah's fire-based attacks, including spells or spell-like abilities, function as if they were either empowered or maximised if it so chooses; it cannot be both. Furthermore, a sereifah is perpetually surrounded by waves of fire and burning air; unprotected wood, paper, cloth and other flammable materials catch fire almost immediately and those wearing unprotected flammable clothing catch on fire. In addition, individuals take 2d8 points of fire damage every round they are within ten feet of the sereifah. Creatures of the water subtype suffer excruciating agony. Those that are made of water take double damage each round.

    Regeneration (Ex): Cold and water deal half damage to a sereifah. When in contact with a blaze at least twice their size, a sereifah benefits from regeneration 6. Additionally, fire damage heals an equal amount of damage instead; fire damage that would normally penetrate immunities instead deals no damage. The creature cannot be healed any other way except by means of this ability.

    Spell-Like Abilities: At will – burning hands, cone of fire, detect magic, elemental swarm, fireball, fire seeds, fire storm, fire trap, flame strike, flaming sphere, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, heat metal, incendiary cloud, meteor swarm, orb of fire, produce flame, pyrotechnics, resist energy, scorching ray, wall of fire. Caster level 18th. Save DC = 18 + spell level.

    Summon Elemental (Sp): Four times per day, a sereifah may automatically summon 4 small fire elementals, medium fire elementals, or large fire elementals, or 2 huge fire elementals, greater fire elementals, or elder fire elementals. This is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell.
    Last edited by Amiel; 2009-07-04 at 10:11 AM.
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    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Nicely done! I love the image, and the mechanics support it quite well.

    I do think you have a typo though...in flamestream, it says it deals 2d8 damage. No self-respecting CR 20 creature takes a standard action to deal 2d8 fire damage. 20d8 fire damage, yes. As a Swift action, yes. But as a standard action? Really?

    EDIT: Especially since it gets meteor swarm AT WILL. Personally, I'd just remove Flamestream. Meteor Swarm and Scorching Ray already get the point across that it can shoot fire.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2009-07-02 at 11:05 AM.

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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Nicely done! I love the image, and the mechanics support it quite well.
    Thank you kindly, sir! Glad that you liked and enjoyed this write-up :)
    The sereifah was fun to create.
    When compared to the aligned outsiders - the embodiments of alignments and associated ideals - there seemed to be a dearth of elementals of comparable equivalence. I fully intend to build high elementals of proportionate power to the sereifah for the other elemental realities.

    I do think you have a typo though...in flamestream, it says it deals 2d8 damage. No self-respecting CR 20 creature takes a standard action to deal 2d8 fire damage. 20d8 fire damage, yes. As a Swift action, yes. But as a standard action? Really?

    EDIT: Especially since it gets meteor swarm AT WILL. Personally, I'd just remove Flamestream. Meteor Swarm and Scorching Ray already get the point across that it can shoot fire.
    Oops, yes, that was a typo, a rather large one at that; it was probably intended to be 20d8 fire damage, or something along those lines, as a standard action, but you're right, since its spell-likes more or less do the same thing, I'll go edit it out of the write-up.



    The sereifah has also been further modified to reflect flavor and mechanical changes.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
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    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Under Fount of Fire it says, "Additionally, a sereifah can command fire elementals as a cleric of their HD. Finally, any being engaged in a grapple with a sereifah suffers 2d8 points of fire damage; there is no save. The save DC is Constitution-based." The save being constitution based should refer to an earlier save in the paragraph because placing at the end next to "there is no save" seems contradictory. Also, shouldn't it be 2d6 [like lava] every round that the creature is engaged in the grapple?

    Debby
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    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    I would give it the ability to force [cold] creatures to save or die. Or just give it detonate at will.


    Also, make it immune even to the scorching fire metamagic.
    Last edited by quick_comment; 2009-07-02 at 11:58 PM.

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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Hey Debby!

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Under Fount of Fire it says, "Additionally, a sereifah can command fire elementals as a cleric of their HD. Finally, any being engaged in a grapple with a sereifah suffers 2d8 points of fire damage; there is no save. The save DC is Constitution-based." The save being constitution based should refer to an earlier save in the paragraph because placing at the end next to "there is no save" seems contradictory.
    Oops, you're right, the sentence is definitely placed in the wrong paragraph; I'll go edit it so it's less contradictory and makes more sense.

    Also, shouldn't it be 2d6 [like lava] every round that the creature is engaged in the grapple?

    Debby
    Well, lava (700°C to 1,200°C or 1,300°F to 2,200°F) in D&D, as you mentioned dealing 2d6 fire, to me feels/felt like the terrestrial limit of achievable damage output. Since the sereifah encapsulate ideals of fire, I wanted numerical values that moved beyond this boundary, to the amount of damage inherent in the tremendous energies released by a stellar star. Essentially, the sereifah should deal comparable damage (when taking its other abilities and qualities into consideration) to white or blue-white super-giants (~7,226°C or ~13,040°F to 28,726°C or ~51,740°F). While the protogenos sereifah would be on par with blue super-giants (~29,726°C or ~53,540°F), the hottest objects in existence.

    Damage by advanced HD elemental beings will increase exponentially, and so should fall comfortably within the above temperatues.

    Quote Originally Posted by quick_comment View Post
    I would give it the ability to force [cold] creatures to save or die. Or just give it detonate at will.
    The sereifah probably don't have the means or capability to accomplish this yet I'm afraid. Just as the sereifah are the ideals of fire, there exist metaphysical representations of profound cold of equal if not exact power.

    There also exist other entities within the reality of fire that bear the same name as the sereifah. The protogenos, the Primevals, the First Born. These in turn, as the true princes(ses) of the elemental realities can force cold creatures to save or die or detonate them as the shards of weak glass that they are.

    Also, make it immune even to the scorching fire metamagic.
    Way ahead of you there, buddy :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    Regeneration (Ex):[...]Additionally, fire damage heals an equal amount of damage instead; fire damage that would normally penetrate immunities instead deals no damage[...]
    This esssentially means that the benefits conferred by the Searing Fire metamagic feat of Sandstorm fame have no effect whatsoever.



    What do folks think of the sereifah in relation to other creatures of similar CR? Does it warrant its current CR or is the CR an under- or overestimation? Is its abilities, qualities and damage output simply too much for a being of CR 20?
    Thanks!
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    A few comments:

    Spell-Like Abilities: At will – burning hands, cone of fire, detect magic, elemental swarm, fireball, fire seeds, fire storm, fire trap, flame strike, flaming sphere, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, heat metal, incendiary cloud, meteor swarm, orb of fire, produce flame, pyrotechnics, resist energy, scorching ray, wall of fire. Caster level 18th. Save DC = 18 + spell level.
    The list of SLAs is a bit too long; yes, it's all fire, all the time, but many of those are redundant. Having just detect magic, elemental swarm, fireball, flame strike, flaming sphere, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, heat metal, incendiary cloud, meteor swarm, orb of fire, and pyrotechnics should suffice.

    Summon Elemental (Sp): Four times per day, a sereifah may automatically summon 4 small fire elementals, medium fire elementals, or large fire elementals, or 2 huge fire elementals, greater fire elementals, or elder fire elementals. This is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell.
    The summon elemental ability is somewhat redundant with elemental swarm--it's more limited and is a lower level, so why would he use it? Either beef up the summon ability or drop elemental swarm from the SLA list.

    What do folks think of the sereifah in relation to other creatures of similar CR? Does it warrant its current CR or is the CR an under- or overestimation? Is its abilities, qualities and damage output simply too much for a being of CR 20?
    As a general rule of thumb monster HD will equal or exceed its CR as levels increase, to keep up with damage output, whereas this is a CR 20 creature with 18 HD. The damage output would be strong but manageable for a CR 17 monster, but I'd instead boost its HD to 21--give it some more HP and other numerical boosts, and also an additional feat (possibly an epic one). An extra 3 HD wouldn't appreciably increase the CR, seeing as quite a few CR 20 monsters have HD in the 24-30 range.
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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    A few comments:

    The list of SLAs is a bit too long; yes, it's all fire, all the time, but many of those are redundant. Having just detect magic, elemental swarm, fireball, flame strike, flaming sphere, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, heat metal, incendiary cloud, meteor swarm, orb of fire, and pyrotechnics should suffice.
    You know, the scrapping of a majority of spell-likes for the aligned outsiders always seemed a little odd to me. True that a pit fiend probably wouldn't find cause to desecrate in actual combat, but its removal means the loss of opportunities to play the creature to the hilt and more importantly the loss of flavor.

    Nearing end of the campaign, having mercifully dispatched the enspelled courtiers acting under a suggestion from a polymorphed pit fiend, the heroes approach the desecrated cathedral, the final bastion of oppression in this land. Lain along the great oaken doors is a symbol of pain. All these spell-likes were retained by the 3.0 pit fiend and were removed in 3.5e.

    In an earlier version of the sereifah, what was included were limited use per day spell-likes, it's probably a good idea then to look over those notes and edit them in.

    The summon elemental ability is somewhat redundant with elemental swarm--it's more limited and is a lower level, so why would he use it? Either beef up the summon ability or drop elemental swarm from the SLA list.
    Come to think of it, elemental swarm as a ninth level at will ability is too powerful for a CR 20 entity. I'll edit it out.

    As a general rule of thumb monster HD will equal or exceed its CR as levels increase, to keep up with damage output, whereas this is a CR 20 creature with 18 HD. The damage output would be strong but manageable for a CR 17 monster, but I'd instead boost its HD to 21--give it some more HP and other numerical boosts, and also an additional feat (possibly an epic one). An extra 3 HD wouldn't appreciably increase the CR, seeing as quite a few CR 20 monsters have HD in the 24-30 range.
    I'd rather not the high elementals to be too HD heavy; and as a hybrid of elementals and outsiders they actually possess the best of both worlds, or as balanced as that can be.

    The damage output of the sereifah is additive, so damage from Blazing Wake will stack with Great Furnace will stack with Continual Burn et al. And while it is true that the sereifah focuses on fire to the exclusion of all and everything else, it does penetrates resistance to fire and fire immunity dealing full damage; the latter only with a failed Fort save. Making it an especially nasty surprise to, say a red wyrm, pit fiend, fire elemental or efreet.
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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    You know, the scrapping of a majority of spell-likes for the aligned outsiders always seemed a little odd to me. True that a pit fiend probably wouldn't find cause to desecrate in actual combat, but its removal means the loss of opportunities to play the creature to the hilt and more importantly the loss of flavor.
    There's a difference between having flavorful abilities like desecrate (which should definitely be kept) and having a bunch of different ways to deal fire damage (which should be removed and possibly be replaced with more flavorful abilities). Desecrate will make a noticeable difference if the pit fiend has used it on his home base; using burning hands instead of fireball won't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    There's a difference between having flavorful abilities like desecrate (which should definitely be kept) and having a bunch of different ways to deal fire damage (which should be removed and possibly be replaced with more flavorful abilities). Desecrate will make a noticeable difference if the pit fiend has used it on his home base; using burning hands instead of fireball won't.
    Then there's absolutely no reason for the pit fiend to have animate dead and create undead, since, really, it's same spell albeit one is stronger than the other. Yet when is all is considered, some designers do insert both spell-likes into the pit fiends' ability.
    In the same vein, why would the balor have dominate monster and suggestion? since to follow your reasoning it wouldn't make a noticeable difference. Similarly, why would the pit fiend need pyrotechnics, or produce flame when it has fireball?

    One is an issue of distance - fireball is long range as opposed to the short range of burning hands, the other is an issue of flavor - descriptions of both spells is inherently different; the fireball is a bead that blossoms into a fireball, burning hands is a cone of searing flame. Mechanically they are similar, but they subtly differ.

    Creatures should have a spread of abilities that interact in a way that is flavorful and descriptive rather than focusing solely on mechanics.
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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    Then there's absolutely no reason for the pit fiend to have animate dead and create undead, since, really, it's same spell albeit one is stronger than the other. Yet when is all is considered, some designers do insert both spell-likes into the pit fiends' ability.
    Because they create different kinds of undead and have different control limits.

    In the same vein, why would the balor have dominate monster and suggestion?
    It...doesn't have suggestion, unless there's an error in the SRD.

    Similarly, why would the pit fiend need pyrotechnics, or produce flame when it has fireball?
    Pyrotechnics can create a smoke cloud, and produce flame can add damage to its natural attacks.

    One is an issue of distance - fireball is long range as opposed to the short range of burning hands, the other is an issue of flavor - descriptions of both spells is inherently different; the fireball is a bead that blossoms into a fireball, burning hands is a cone of searing flame. Mechanically they are similar, but they subtly differ.

    Creatures should have a spread of abilities that interact in a way that is flavorful and descriptive rather than focusing solely on mechanics.
    I suppose so, but the only difference is the area--both deal just fire damage, both have no other effects, and both are less effective at what they do than meteor swarm, which it also has at will. Maybe if you restricted uses per day of fireball and meteor swarm I could see burning hands being used, but really they all do the same thing with a different damage and area.
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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    It does in the 3e SRD.
    Odd. Maybe the hypertext one is inconsistent.

    Regarding your other points, I still think that some of the abilities are sufficiently different and some just are too similar to justify their inclusion. You do get the final say, of course, so I'll leave it at that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
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    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Sereifah

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Because they create different kinds of undead and have different control limits.
    Not so with the different kinds as create undead, the more potent spell can duplicate what is created with animate dead. The only dissimilarity between the two is the degree of control, although this can be trivial. Hence, one is stronger than the other.

    It...doesn't have suggestion, unless there's an error in the SRD.
    It does in the 3e SRD.

    Pyrotechnics can create a smoke cloud, and produce flame can add damage to its natural attacks.
    Produce flame can also be hurled up to 120 feet and the natural attack can be 'duplicated' with a fireball that terminates on you. As it has fireball at will and immunity to fire, it can continuously detonate fireballs upon itself, projecting in a radius centred on it. There is no other reason for it to have produce flame at all; it'd be more expedient and beneficial for the pit fiend to deny access to it within a radius, rather than risk itself harm with flaming natural attacks, provoking AoO if applicable. This is all the more so due the damage dealt by a fireball and the power of its natural attacks.
    Slight alterations to flavor or descriptions can cause fireball to project smoke clouds or fireworks as a conclusion to the main effect. Alternatively, damage to the surroundings caused by fireball can also produce the same effects, especially if there are items present that cause such to happen, ie smokepowder kegs, (magical) heavy drapes, et al.


    However, I believe the pit fiend should be given back these spell-like abilities as they give it a degree of flavor not otherwise possessed if it lacks the above spell-likes. It seems rather odd that WotC chose to deny spell-likes based on number of use and usage in combat; this is probably the reason it lacks desecrate.

    I suppose so, but the only difference is the area--both deal just fire damage, both have no other effects, and both are less effective at what they do than meteor swarm, which it also has at will. Maybe if you restricted uses per day of fireball and meteor swarm I could see burning hands being used, but really they all do the same thing with a different damage and area.
    The same argument can be had for produce flame, pyrotechnics and fireball as per above. In fact, using your reasoning, if the creature has meteor swarm, there is no reason for it to have fireball at all since it is both similar in many respects and is more potent; it also has more effects than fireball and is more effective at what it does.

    As previously written:
    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    In an earlier version of the sereifah, what was included were limited use per day spell-likes, it's probably a good idea then to look over those notes and edit them in.

    Come to think of it, elemental swarm as a ninth level at will ability is too powerful for a CR 20 entity. I'll edit it out.
    I need to edit the sereifah to reflect the changes :)

    Apologies for the break up, my browser is chucking a fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Odd. Maybe the hypertext one is inconsistent.
    The spell-likes of creatures in the 3.5e were drastically reduced to their counterparts within the 3e SRD. So, the spell-likes we were discussing previously were present in the 3e SRD and not in the hypertext 3.5e one.

    Regarding your other points, I still think that some of the abilities are sufficiently different and some just are too similar to justify their inclusion. You do get the final say, of course, so I'll leave it at that.
    The editing of spell-likes was at the top of my to-do list, although I've been rather busy. I'll do that. Regarding your points, I wanted this creature to focus solely on the proliferation of fire and as the penultimate incarnation of flaming death fire. Any encountered in combat would seek to redress any situation through overkill.
    This may naturally impose some limitations on the design, since it is not an incarnation of an ideal or alignment, being an embodiment of matter rather than a personification of spirit.

    Actually, thanks for the discourse and your input, although it's odd you'd argue for inclusion of produce flame for the pit fiend when it has fireball and not for the sereifah :p.
    Last edited by Amiel; 2009-07-15 at 11:58 PM.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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