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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, England.

    Default Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Another Test of Spite match, this one against imperialspectre. Rules are identical to before.

    Since we're short on DMs, we'll do this by the honour system. You run your character, I run mine. On your turn, you declare your actions and attacks. It's up to the player in question to acknowledge when they're hit/hurt/incapacitated and to mention relevant info from their character sheet. Put all information that the opposing PC shouldn't know in a spoiler, like this:

    Observers Only
    Spoiler
    Show
    Information


    Arena is as follows:

    {table=head]|A|B|C|D|E|F|G|H|I|J|K|L
    1||||||||||||
    2|
    3|||C|C|||||C|C||
    4|||C|C|||||C|C||
    5||||||||||||
    6|
    7|
    8||||||||||||
    9|||C|C|||||C|C||
    10|||C|C|||||C|C||
    11|
    12|||||||||||[/table]

    Squares are 5 feet each. C represents column positions, running floor to ceiling. Walls and columns are stone, with coral accents. There are exits at F1/G1 and F12/G12, not that it matters unless you want to retreat. Ceiling is 30 feet high. There's a 10' square tunnel at F6-G6-F7-G7 that goes up another 30 feet. Light is normal.

    This arena has been chosen because it's the one I fought in in the Test of Might, and thus I was able to copy/paste it in 15 seconds. If you'd like a different map, go right ahead, but you have to do the work of supplying it. :P (Oh, and the original map was underwater, but I've left that part out, unless you'd rather I kept it.)

    Starting positions: You pick a starting square in row 1 or 2, I pick a starting square in row 11 or 12, chess style.

    Buff time: Both characters have all-day effects active (ie any effect that lasts a full adventuring day of 12 hours or more), but get no preparation rounds. I think this is the fairest option, as it represents a normal adventuring encounter reasonably well and it's a compromise between no buffs and full buffs.

    Both parties are aware that there's an enemy in the vicinity and are considered to be in combat.

    Since we don't have a DM, rules adjudications and queries will be handled by mutual agreement. If we can't agree on something, we'll either settle on a compromise, flip a coin, or call in an arbiter.

    Match ends when one character concedes & withdraws from combat, dies, or is similarly rendered unable to continue.

    Note that I've already got a character in the dungeon, so I won't be getting the entry prize whatever happens, but eh.

    - Saph
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Sweet.

    Initiative: (1d20+8)[10]

    [Edited: because I didn't know how to do spoilers]: Observers Only
    Spoiler
    Show
    Starting location: C2

    Buffs in effect:
    Mage Armor
    Contingency: Silent image, heightened to 4th level and duplicating dimension door. Triggers if a creature approaches within 15 feet of Larion with a weapon drawn.

    Last edited by imperialspectre; 2009-07-05 at 10:47 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, England.

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Cool, let's go.

    Zedd enters the arena. Starting square:

    Spoiler
    Show
    J11

    Initiative: (1d20+4)[22]
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Your initiative, then. Proceed.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, England.

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Actions (Observers Only):

    Spoiler
    Show
    Standard action, cast Arcane Sight. Swift action, use Mithralmist Shirt. Move action, hide. Hide check: (1d20+20)[40]

    With a very easy Listen check, you can hear the sound of spellcasting. Tell me if you want to do the Spellcraft thing.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Listen:(1d20+3)[23]
    Spellcraft:(1d20+23)[29]

    Actions (Observers Only):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Standard action: cast Nondetection on self.
    Swift action: cast Greater Mirror Image on self.
    Move action: Hide.
    Hide: (1d20+42)[62]
    Move Silently: (1d20+32)[43]


    If you are using detect spells or similar effects to locate my character, please make a caster level check, DC 28.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, England.

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Spell is Arcane Sight. Doesn't detect characters.

    Tell me if you do any spellcasting, by the way.

    Was that your turn?
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Spellcasting done, Listen check as normal.

    That was my turn.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, England.

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Listen/Spellcraft checks (Observers Only)
    Spoiler
    Show
    None needed.

    Pass. What's the spell?
    Last edited by Saph; 2009-07-05 at 11:23 AM.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Nondetection, followed by Greater Mirror Image.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Interesting. Your character's certainly different. Makes a change from all the Ego Whip Psions. :P

    My turn, spellcasting. Your Spellcraft is high enough to automatically hit the DC, so I'll stop spoilering the spell cast. It's True Seeing. Other actions:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Stay hidden.

    Your turn.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    I actually designed this character specifically to counter the characters from your previous fight. Of course, now you're playing some kind of spellcaster.

    Looks like I'm not going to win with just illusions, so let's see where this takes us...

    Spoiler
    Show
    Standard: Cast Ray Deflection.
    Move: To A4. Hide: (1d20+42)[54] Move Silently: (1d20+32)[39]


    You'll probably get the Spellcraft checks automatically too, so the spell that Larion just cast is Ray Deflection.

    Oh, and Spot: [roll]1d20+19[/roll]
    Last edited by imperialspectre; 2009-07-05 at 11:44 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Sorry for the double post, but Spot: (1d20+19)[39], since I might be moving into LoS.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    London, England.

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    You see nothing, unless you've got LoS to the 11 and 12 row. If you do, tell me which squares you can see.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    G11 to I11, G12 to J12, inclusive. I trust you won't drop a lightning bolt on the vector you can undoubtedly figure out from that data.
    Last edited by imperialspectre; 2009-07-05 at 11:56 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Nah, even though I know which square you're in now. :P Anyway, you don't see anything. Tell me if you ever get a full look at rows 11 and 12, because then that'll change.

    I assume it's my turn, so another spell: Freedom of Movement. Other actions:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Stay hidden.

    Your turn.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Are you using any form of magic that would make you immune to mindsight?

    I have to run to church now, but I believe I'm now within range of everywhere within the map.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Nope, not immune to mindsight. You can detect a sentient mind in square J11.

    Edit: Oh, and you also know that it's a humanoid (human) with an Int of 22, since it turns out mindsight does that as well. Think I'll get some sleep, it's past midnight here in China. :)
    Last edited by Saph; 2009-07-05 at 12:19 PM.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    I sincerely hope you're not up now, especially if you're teaching or some such, but I'll go ahead and post this before I run my PnP game.

    A shower of glittering gold particles bursts around you, overwhelming your senses. Will DC 24, please.

    [Yes, it's glitterdust, centered on H11/12, I11/12.]

    (Observers only)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Standard action: Cast glitterdust, heightened to use a 6th-level spell slot. Earth Spell makes that effectively 7th-level.
    Move action: To A7.
    Hide: (1d20+42)[48]
    Move Silently: (1d20+32)[45]

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Dec 2006
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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Observers Only
    Spoiler
    Show
    Use Divine Defiance; counterspell with a Glitterdust of my own.

    Spell is countered.

    My turn. Time to stop hiding, I think. I move up to K9 and look around.

    Spot: (1d20+11)[30] to see what I can see with normal vision. Arcane Sight also lets me see any magical auras in the area.

    Rest of the turn depends on what I can detect.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Spot check is not high enough. You'll need a CL check, DC 28, to detect any magical auras on Larion's person, since nondetection applies to all gear worn as well as to a creature, and detect spells (since arcane sight duplicates the effect of detect magic, but with extra perks regarding whatever is detected).

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Arcane sight does duplicate detect magic, true, but nondetection doesn't protect any magical auras in the area from being spotted by detect magic. It blocks 'any divination attempted against the warded creature or item'. I'm not casting a spell against you or your items, I'm just seeing the magical auras that are already there.

    More detail:

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane Sight
    This spell makes your eyes glow blue and allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet of you. The effect is similar to that of a detect magic spell, but arcane sight does not require concentration and discerns aura location and power more quickly.

    You know the location and power of all magical auras within your sight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nondetection
    The warded creature or object becomes difficult to detect by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and detect spells. Nondetection also prevents location by such magic items as crystal balls. If a divination is attempted against the warded creature or item, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the spellcaster who cast nondetection. If you cast nondetection on yourself or on an item currently in your possession, the DC is 15 + your caster level.

    If cast on a creature, nondetection wards the creature’s gear as well as the creature itself.
    Bolded for emphasis. Nondetection stops you and your gear from being detected, but I'm not looking for you and your gear, I'm looking at your magical auras, which nondetection doesn't cover.

    So, on the subject, how many magical auras do I see?

    - Saph
    Last edited by Saph; 2009-07-05 at 10:34 PM.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    I don't think that reading of the spell leaves any potential use for the spell. The text indicates that a warded creature or object is "difficult to detect...by detect spells." Nondetection does this by requiring the caster level check, and the spell clearly indicates that it functions on both the creature and the creature's gear.

    Since the detect line of spells all function by lighting up various auras, and only by detecting those auras, it seems to me that nondetection must function by suppressing the magic auras. Otherwise, one could say that detect evil bypasses undetectable alignment because only the disguised vampire cleric of Bane is protected, not the massive aura of evil surrounding it. I don't think that reading of the spell works.

    If we can't agree on the best reading of the two spells, I'm open to a compromise. Do you have any suggestions?

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Firstly, I re-read the rules and Arcane Sight doesn't duplicate detect magic. It's "similar" to detect magic. Hence it's not directly covered by nondetection.

    Secondly, "Difficult to detect by detect spells" is the summary description of nondetection at the beginning. The mechanics part of nondetection is as above: it wards the creature and their gear. Arcane Sight sees magical auras. They're different things.

    Nondetection doesn't say "Any magical auras on the creature are made undetectable", so I don't think you have any grounds for arguing that it does.

    Have a re-read of the SRD entries for the two spells and see if that changes your mind. I think the rules back me up on this one.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    The function of Arcane Sight, in terms of detecting magical auras, is "as noted in Detect Magic." That's why I say that it functionally duplicates Detect Magic; while it does other things, those only trigger once the caster detects the magical auras. Therefore, a spell that is effective against detect spells would, generally speaking, be expected to work against Arcane Sight as well.

    More importantly, I disagree that you can distinguish between a creature and its aura, or between a magic item and its aura. The reductio ad absurdum from my last post applies here; if you use detect evil on a creature, you are in fact attempting to detect an aura of evil. Therefore, under your reading, since undetectable alignment only shields a "creature," and does nothing for the creature's aura, it would fail to protect a creature from being detected.

    The fact that nondetection is specified as working for both a creature and the creature's gear provides indirect support for my argument, since the only detection spells that function against both a creature and the gear the creature is carrying are spells that detect magical or alignment auras.

    I would rule exactly this way in any of my games, and I don't think I've seen someone rule differently. However, if you're not convinced, I can go ahead and give you the auras and corresponding information.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    All right, let's make this simple. We'll put the question of whether I can detect the spells up on you to one side. (I still don't know where you're getting the idea that a nondetection effect can make a ray deflection undetectable, but anyway).

    Instead, I'll use Arcane Sight to spot the collection of illusion auras coming from your huge crowd of mirror images. I seriously doubt you'll try to claim that your nondetection makes all of them undetectable, too. :P

    - Saph
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Okay, that's fair. They're all clustered around square A7.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Glitterdust right back at you. Will save, DC 19, and -40 to Hide whether you succeed or fail. Are you visible now?
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Will: (1d20+16)[30].

    And yes, I'm visible. But only because I rolled poorly on my Hide. :P

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Test of Spite: Extra Match, Saph vs Imperialspectre

    Your turn, then. By the way, what cover or concealment were you hiding behind?

    Edit: Oh, and on the subject, what do you look like?
    Last edited by Saph; 2009-07-05 at 11:53 PM.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #10 in the series, Fallen, is out as of September 2019. For updates, check my blog!

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