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Thread: Redwall D20

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Redwall D20

    For a few days now, I've been mulling over the idea of trying to play the Redwall Series in D20, but I need help! I'll post what I have thought up so far:

    Classes:
    No Casters, of course, and little magic outside of dreams and spirits and such, and possibly some badger-forged weapons. The very limited magic that is in Redwall would have to be role played instead of class features. Here's the list of base classes that'd probably be needed:

    Fighter could probably be used as-is.
    Some sort of Geurilla Class
    Some sort ofRanger Class
    Healer (Mundane healing, of course)
    Commoner
    Expert
    Some sort of Mundane Paladin type class
    Rougeish class
    Swashbuckling type fighter

    Any others? I think there should be more, but it's quite possible that char development would depend much more on skills/roleplaying.

    And for Prcs:
    Badger Lord
    Guisom Shrew
    Skipper of the Otters
    Log-A-Log
    Foremole
    Tracker
    Long Patrol Hare

    Of course, the leadership based PrC's could easily just be a roleplay aspect

    Races: (all are ECL+0 unless otherwise noted)

    Mouse:
    Medium Beast
    Base Speed of 30
    +4 Skill points at level one and +1 skill point at each level after
    One Extra feat at level one
    Favored Class: Any

    I thought that the Mice would be the general "average" PC, since that's basically them in the books.

    Otter:
    Medium Beast
    Base Speed 30 and Swim Speed of 40
    +2 Dex -2 Cha: Otters are skilled but are often gruff
    +1 Racial bonus to fort saves: Otters are usually hardy
    +4 Bonus to swim checks
    Weapon Familiarity: All otters are proficient with slings (or, if all classes are already going to be proficient with simple weapons, then otters get weapon focus, but I feel this may be overpowered)
    Favored Class:?

    I think they might be able to use a bit more, but this is the general feel I am going for. Maybe they should also have some sort of familiarity with Javelins?

    Hare:
    Medium Beast
    +2 Dex -2 Wis: Hares are skilled but often lack common sense
    Base Speed 40
    +2 Racial Bonus to Hide and Move Silently: Hares are skilled at avoiding detection
    +2 Racial Bonus to Listen: Those ears aren't for show, wot wot!
    Quick-Footed: Hares get the benefit of the Run Feat for free
    Enormous appetite: Hares require twice the amount of food as other beasts their size
    Favored Class: The ranger type class seems about right.

    I don't know, it seems that they, like the otter, are missing something.

    Hedgehog
    Medium Beast
    +2 Con -2 Dex: Hedgehogs can take a beating, but they tend to be a bit uncoordinated
    Base Speed of 30
    Spikes: Any beast attempting to grapple a hedgehog (except another Hedgehog) takes 1d6 piercing damage.
    Curl: A hedgehog may, as a move equivalent action, curl into a tight ball, granting a +3 natural armor bonus but leaving the beat flat footed. If the hedgehog is rolled into an enemy somehow, he deals 1d6 damage.
    Favored Class: ?

    Badger
    Large Beast
    +4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha: Badgers are strong and tough but tend to be gruff.
    Base Speed 40
    +2 To will Saves
    Bloodwrath(ex): Badgers can enter a rage once a day. The rage grants +4 Str and 2 temporary hit points/ char level but takes a -2 modifier to AC.The hit points aren't lost first but are taken away after the bloodwrath ends. A badger in bloodwrath must make a DC 15 will save to avoid attacking friends who get in the way of getting to the enemy.
    A badger greatly wounded (to 1/4 hitpoints, maybe?) must make a DC 15 will save to avoid entering the bloodwrath involintarily.
    A badger may end his bloodwrath prematurely with a DC 15 Will save. After the bloodwrath, a badger is winded for the remainder of the encounter.
    Skilled Smith: Badgers recieve Craft(Armour) and Craft (Weaponsmith) as class skills if they aren't already.
    Favored Class: A fighter like class, obviously.
    ECL: +2

    This seems to preserve the feel of badgers without making them too out of reach to have in a party if it doesn't start at level one.

    Mole
    Medium Beast
    +2 Wis, -2 Int
    Base speed 20'/Dig speed 20
    Darkvision 60'
    +2 Cultural bonus to Knowledge (Engineering and Architecture) checks.
    Moles Recieve Stonecunning as a racial feature
    Digging claws deal 1d4/x2 slashing damage.
    Favored Class:?

    Can't really say much more except that Molespeak might be an intresting in game effect-- maybe some sort of check to understand what a mole is saying?


    Squirrel
    Medium Beast
    +2 Dex, -2 Con: Squirrels are agile but frail
    Base Speed 30/Climb Speed 30
    +1 Bonus to Reflex Saves
    +4 Bonus to Climb checks.
    +2 Bonus to Jump checks
    +2 Bonus to Balance checks
    Favored Class: ?

    Shrew:
    Medium beast
    +2 Dex, -2 Cha: Shrews are skilled and agile, but are very argumentative.
    Base Speed 30
    +2 Bonus to Proffesion (Sailor). This applies to sea vessles as well as the log boats used by shrews.
    Weapon Familiarity: Rapier. All shrews are trained in its use.
    Favored Class: The Geurilla type class seems ideal, obviously.

    I'll get to the vermin races later, probably tomorrow. I think I'll include ferrets, stoats, and weasels all in one set of stats, though.


    Oh, and the stats for the Sword of Martin would probably be something along the lines of a +2 Bastard Sword with an Aura of Courage.

    Challenges would mostly be against vermin instead of having lots of monsters, but there could be adders and birds of prey.

    Thoughts are appreciated-- I haven't really played much DnD at all, so I'm just trying to do my best based off of reading and theory-- is anything overpowered? Underpowered? I want to try to keep most the races except for badgers and maybe some vermin away from LAs, so keep that in mind. If I have to, I can go with +1's, though. I am especially looking for help with classes(since the lack of magic makes the standard classes fairly unuseable), but any help at all would be most appreciated.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Oh dear lordie...

    Umm... good luck?

    Seriously, I can't think of anything constructive to say, just kinda impressed (although I shouldn't be surprised) that someone would get around to making a d20 for Redwall...
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Cool. I definitly like. Would the monks of the abbey be healers? I think Commoners and Experts aren't really worh mentioning as base classes. Might also make Abbot, and Redwall Champion PrC's too.
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Well, I don't know much about Redwall, but I do know that a Squirrel character really shouldn't be able to climb faster than he can run...

    "I start dashing along the wall to catch up with him!" and what-not.

    The otter's swim speed seems similarly strange, but not as easy to abuse.

    Also, Rabbits make for incredible archery-base rangers, with or without that being their favored class. The increased appetite is a big drawback for surviving in the wild, (can they eat grass? ;D) but their good dex and great speed, plus stealth and listen bonuses, mean they can avoid ambushes, ambush in turn, and dominate skirmishes.
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Hmm. Maybe one of the classes should be sort of like the scout from CAd. Anyhow, I think badgers seem a little underpowered for a +2 LA. Compare them to a Golaith, which is +1 LA. Maybe make them stronger, or give them some natural armor.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Oh dear lordie...

    Umm... good luck?

    Seriously, I can't think of anything constructive to say, just kinda impressed (although I shouldn't be surprised) that someone would get around to making a d20 for Redwall...
    Thanks... I'm hoping that I can get this to work, as I know several people who love the series and I'd really enjoy running a game for it. With my limited DnD experience, it would be a good game to run with the lack of magic and stuff to worry about; plus, I know the Redwall world far better than I know DnD.


    Cool. I definitly like. Would the monks of the abbey be healers? I think Commoners and Experts aren't really worh mentioning as base classes. Might also make Abbot, and Redwall Champion PrC's too.
    Some of the Redwall monks would be healers, but I still think commoner could be used-- many of them aren't particularly skilled at anything; they do what needs doing around the abbey. It's their togetherness that is the main reason they do stuff so well.
    Well, I don't know much about Redwall, but I do know that a Squirrel character really shouldn't be able to climb faster than he can run...

    "I start dashing along the wall to catch up with him!" and what-not.
    Well, in the books squirrels always disappear into the trees when fleeing, but it may make sense to decrease it. I mean, they are, after all, basically running with a lot of skill.

    The otter's swim speed seems similarly strange, but not as easy to abuse.
    In this case, I have to disagree. An otter's body is designed for fast movement in water; it's extremely streamlined and they have powerful tails to propel them in the water.

    Also, Rabbits make for incredible archery-base rangers, with or without that being their favored class. The increased appetite is a big drawback for surviving in the wild, (can they eat grass? ) but their good dex and great speed, plus stealth and listen bonuses, mean they can avoid ambushes, ambush in turn, and dominate skirmishes.
    Heh, hares do often act as skirmishers in the books, actually.(And to make a long explanation short, hares/rabbits does matter.) No, one would not eat grass (though one desperate hare does try in Salamandastron when he barters away his rations.)


    Hmm. Maybe one of the classes should be sort of like the scout from CAd. Anyhow, I think badgers seem a little underpowered for a +2 LA. Compare them to a Golaith, which is +1 LA. Maybe make them stronger, or give them some natural armor.
    I like the idea of scout, but I don't have CAd, and it's not OGL.
    I think you're probably right about Badgers... what if I gave them +2 wisdom and the benefit of the toughness feat for free? Too much? Too little? Of course, I could always just reduce them to LA +1, which would open them up a bit more for PCs. (Of course, the DM would still want to be careful about allowing PCs to be badgers anyway.... they'd have to trust the player not to steal the spotlight too much.)

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    The dig speed for moles seems unreasonable.They are good tunnellers, but probably not THAT good.

    As for badgers, give them powerful boosts and a high LA; they deserve it. Badgers are incredibly powerful.

    You might want to bear in mind that almost everything that will be encountered, except for a few exceptions such as birds, will be humaniod. You might actually want to fully define every species as a possible pc, since evil campaigns would lend themselves well to this setting. Just be very, very careful about letting parties mix together vermin and non-vermin.

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    For badgers being extremely powerful, I was thinking that a lot of that would be covered in the Badger Lord PrC-- in game terms, just about all the badgers in the books were high level badger lords. However, I might combine this with just making the race extremely powerful. And I think you're right, I'll adjust the mole's tunnel speed.

    I also agree about mixing vermin and non vermin. I can only think of one case in the books where a vermin ended up not being evil, his name was Blaggut, as I recall. (I forget which one he was in, but he ended killing his captain)

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    I think Badgers need to be absurdly powerful.They shouldn't be PCs, though, ever. And, of course, they should be on a level with Wildcats. Martin (a 20th-level character if there ever was one) only just managed to kill a wildcat, and nearly died in the attempt. Badgers have only ever died by assassination, a fight with a wildcat, or being swarmed by hundreds of vermin.

    And you neeed a Marlfox PrC. Rogues with axes...
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade-Bearer_Ian
    There will probably be a lot of rangers, as a good number of the characters outside the Abbey come from the woods.

    Moles I can see as experts
    Badgers as barbarians or fighters (they remind me of Goliaths...), they also make good experts for arms and armour making.
    Hares either fighters or rangers, or monks
    Squirrels are easily rangers with the archery combat style
    Otters always gave me the impression of a fighter/rogue/ranger mix, mebbe monk as well
    Shrews are easily rogues, log-a-log probably has a few levels of fighter as well. (they all use rapiers for crying out loud!)
    Mice are definetly the humans of the group.
    Hedgehogs are aslo good barbarians

    The vermine, on the other hand, could be anything...except the fox, which is obviously rogue/fighter...

    and some of the books did feature druid-like vermine (every warlord needs a seer), so mebbe you could limit divine magic to scrying magic?
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Just a few suggestions.

    I would probably not give straight weapon proficiencies to any of the woodland races as in the novels ive read most woodlanders had very specific weapons they liked to use. Maybe something like weapon focus with their racial weapons but extra penalties for using non proficient weapons.

    Anyway heres some suggestions for racial weapons

    Mice - Quarterstaff, Sling, Short Bow

    Squirrels - Longbow, Javelin

    Otters - Javelin, Sling, Shortspear

    Hares - Composite Longbow(based off the Longbows used by Colonel Clary and Friends in Mariel Of Redwall), Longspear, Shortspear, Quarterstaff, Short Sword, Long Sword, Sling, Dagger(They do recieve a lot of military training and constantly practice so i thought it was fair to give them a bit more)l

    Moles - Claw, Club, Warhammer, Flail (Based on the Mallet and Flail wielders in the novel with Urgan Nagru the Fox Wolf), Sling

    Shrew - Rapier, Sling, Dagger

    Hedgehog - Club, Sling, Great club (Havent really seen them use any other weapons)

    Badgers - All Simple and Martial weapons (they are supposed to be great warriors after all)

    Vermin characters should probably get more general proficiencies as in the novels they're generally armed with a wide variety of weapon types. The other way you could do it would be to say they were proficient with whatever weapons they start out with.

    Stat wise the badger does seem underpowered compared to how they appear in the novels. I agree with Jathki on this point , badgers should be incredibly powerful compared to anyone else as several times throughout the series its pretty much them on their own or with a small group of allies versus a vermin horde and they either win or inflict massive casualties before dying.

    The only other thing i can think of at the moment is that maybe hedgehogs should have a natural armour bonus anyway, maybe +1 or +2, and curling up increases it rather than granting it.

    Other than that it looks great, good luck with getting it off the ground.
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    I don't think I want to limit the weapons that much, I mean, mice don't get swords, meaning Martin was being rather foolish weilding his legendary weapon! And I suppose I'll change the badger a bit, I just liked the idea that a good Roleplayer (one that the DM KNOWS would never munchkin or steal the spotlight) could play a badger in a slightly higher campaign. Though, I suppose if they're made more powerful, they still could be used in high level campaigns.

    EDIT:
    And you neeed a Marlfox PrC. Rogues with axes...
    Hmmm, what about a modificiation on the Shadowdancer?

    EDIT2:

    What if badgers had the following racial features:

    Badger Weapon
    Badgers have one weapon they use beyond all others, usually a weapon that others cannot even lift. A badger uses a weapon sized for huge beasts. Badgers generally choose weapons such as greatswords or greataxes. In addition, a badger the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization Feats fo free with his chosen weapon.

    Call of the Mountain
    In a time of Need, a Badger might recieve a call from Salamandastron. He can instinctively head the way he needs to go to get to Salamandastron, even if he doesn't know where it is. Additionally, the call might pull him further from it first if there is a need to gather an army.

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    I just had a thought. Is Gullwhacker improvised? Is it still improvised after being used for however long it was used?

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Sorry i should have been more clear. I was thinking more along the lines of what they would know how to use when they started out. I'm not saying those are the only weapons they should be able to use, just that those seem the best proficiencies for them to start with based on what I've read. Nothing to stop them taking more proficiencies later, after all even Martin had to take a few lessons before he got really good with his sword.

    EDIT

    With the point you raised about Badger Weapons maybe instead of a special skill simply have it as a new class of item, sort of like a further improvement over master crafted. If its going to be a very low magic system then item quality obviously becomes a much more decisive factor.


    Ive also been giving some thought to what Blade Bearer Ian said about the seer type characters that pop up occasionally (Mangiz being a case in point). Perhaps the Adept NPC class with a modified spell list might be a way to show that within the game without unbalancing it.

    hope this helps.
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    A badger doesn't have to be the lord of Salamandastron. What about Orlando the Axe? You could have a badger PC, that's got a high LA, I'm thinking ~3, and have the lord of Salamandastron be someone different.
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Omniplex
    A badger doesn't have to be the lord of Salamandastron. What about Orlando the Axe? You could have a badger PC, that's got a high LA, I'm thinking ~3, and have the lord of Salamandastron be someone different.
    Yes, but any Badger may, at some point, feel the call of the mountain if it's in need of a badger lord and they are the most worthy living badger to be lord, which is why I included it. Though I should probably just take it out and assume that the DM knows how to work a plot hook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zangor

    Yes, but any Badger may, at some point, feel the call of the mountain if it's in need of a badger lord and they are the most worthy living badger to be lord, which is why I included it. Though I should probably just take it out and assume that the DM knows how to work a plot hook.
    It would probably be a non-issue anyway if the party isn't anywhere near Salamandastron.

    That reminds me, the regions not immediatly surrounding Mossflower are not very well defined. The books involving other regions have them mapped, but has a map showing everything ever been published?

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Well, a lot of it depends on the time period, but as far as I know, there haven't been any. That being said, I think somebody could put maps together well enough to make a basic campaign map.

    EDIT: Here's my first try at vermin stats:

    Rat
    Medium Vermin
    +2 Con -2 Int
    Base Speed 30
    +2 Cultural Bonus to intimidate
    Recieves the Benefit of toughness at first level.
    Favored Class:?

    Weasel/Ferret/Stoat (They're similar enough that I think they can use the same stats)
    Medium Vermin
    +2 Dex +2 Con -2 Wis -2 Cha
    Base Speed 30
    +4 Bonus to Escape Artist
    +2 Bonus to Hide
    Favored Class:?

    Fox:
    Medium Vermin
    +2 Wis -2 Cha
    Base Speed 30
    Low Light Vision
    +4 Cultural Bonus to Bluff
    +2 Additional Bonus to Bluff checks for Secret Messages
    Favored Class: ?

    Wildcat:
    Large Vermin
    +4 Str +2 Con +2 Int
    Base Speed: 40
    +2 Racial Bonus to Spot and Listen
    +2 Bonus to Intimidate Checks
    Two claws: 1d6 each
    Bite: 2d4
    Favored Class:?
    ECL: I'll try to put this near where the badger ends up.

    Now, what should I add to the wildcat to strenghten it? (And to the badger, for that matter)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jothki
    I just had a thought. Is Gullwhacker improvised? Is it still improvised after being used for however long it was used?
    Maybe call it a flail or morningstar
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Probably a flail-ish weapon, dealing bludgeoning damage, maybe give it "optional reach" like a spiked chain...
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Jothki

    It would probably be a non-issue anyway if the party isn't anywhere near Salamandastron.

    That reminds me, the regions not immediatly surrounding Mossflower are not very well defined. The books involving other regions have them mapped, but has a map showing everything ever been published?
    I think ive actually got a map somewhere, unless it got lost in the annals of time
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Hmmm. A lack of magical healing is going to be kinda tough on PCs though, isn't it? They're going to have a hard time in combat-heavy campaigns. A healer-type class wouldn't be able to immediatly heal people without magical means, so it would be largly limited, it seems, to healers excelerating HP gained from bedrest. Well, that's all I can think of them being able to do.
    Maybe it should be harder to hit characters at all?
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    I'd say for classes you could use:
    Barbarian
    Fighter
    Rogue (This could be both guerilla/roguish character, if not use scout from CAd)
    Swashbuckler(from CW)
    Ranger (Make ability to substitute for Animal Companion)
    Paladin (This would be tough to do without any magic and with the ride skill being negligible. Maybe just have anyone who wants a paladin be a LG fighter, instead, that works.)
    What to do for a healer, I have no idea.

    Commoner and Expert would be NPC classes, just like in DMG.
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy
    I'd say for classes you could use:
    Barbarian
    Fighter
    Rogue (This could be both guerilla/roguish character, if not use scout from CAd)
    Swashbuckler(from CW)
    Ranger (Make ability to substitute for Animal Companion)
    Paladin (This would be tough to do without any magic and with the ride skill being negligible. Maybe just have anyone who wants a paladin be a LG fighter, instead, that works.)
    What to do for a healer, I have no idea.

    Commoner and Expert would be NPC classes, just like in DMG.
    There is the issue of the 'heroes' not really being that more powerful than the commoners. Probably 2/3rds of the characters in the books, if not more, would actually start as Commoners.

    That reminds me, a Champion of Redwall PrC really couldn't have any level-based prereqs, considering the variety of backgrounds of the holders of the title.

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    I would say the requirement would be: must either possess, or undertake a quest to find, the sword of martin.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Omniplex
    I would say the requirement would be: must either possess, or undertake a quest to find, the sword of martin.
    Certainly. With a good DM, this wouldn't be handed out too early or anything, but a warning wouldn't be a bad idea when I write it up.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Quote Originally Posted by Zangor
    Certainly. With a good DM, this wouldn't be handed out too early or anything, but a warning wouldn't be a bad idea when I write it up.
    Why not hand it out early? Isn't that half the point?

    What would be the abilities? My thought would be standard fighter-ish but with the ability to either reroll a die or shift the result a bit.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Maybe it could be like one of those Weapon Associated Prestive classes in Unearthed Arcana: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/ma...tm#battleScion
    Not sure what the abilities would be, but some of them might me fairly supernatural.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    I'm also in the crowd of making Badgers strong, but not quite demigods... leaving the demigodness for the Badger Lord PrC. ^_^

    Orlando the Axe was (If we were analyzing the book from a purely mechanical level) rather useless for the majority of it until it came down to killing things, in which he finally was able to actively do something. Badger Lords tend to be rather useful the entire time.

    ...minus bloodwrath. So probably keep them with a 2-3 LA for Badgers, and make the PrC the scary bit.

    May I also mention, this rocks as an idea. ^_^ Redwall is awesome.
    Beginnings usually happen over trifles... even if it's a coincidence...

    ~ Final Fantasy Tactics

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Redwall D20

    Man, I haven't read the Redwall books in ages. Favourite is still Martin the Warrior. Anyway, I did notice this while lurking at WOTC. Might be helpful.

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