[Mutants and Masterminds] Question

[Arakune]

Is this power legal for a PL 10 campaign? Assume Attack +8 ranged/+12 meele.

Transfer (Psichic/Mental descriptor): base 2 (wis->regeneration), area sphapeble +1, alternate save (will) +0, tiring -1, distracting -1.

Assuming 1pp/rank min, I have 23 pp to use. So I want the power to have Transfer 20 (DC 20 will, steal 20pp from wisdom score), with the progression 2 (assume linear progression instead the normal progression from the time/value progression table) and slow fade 1 power feats.

In essense I will try to steal from 60 block worth of area 20pp, for each subject, from their Wis score and gain 20pp (once) to put into regeneration. Also, with slow fade power feat, they will only recover their drained power after 5 rounds.

This is to try to imcapacitate lots of enemies at once.

[The Rose Dragon]

You can't have Transfer 20 with Area in a PL 10 game. You can have Transfer 10.

[NPCMook]

I remember reading that somewhere but everytime I go digging for it I can never find it...

[kpenguin]

DC is 10+rank, remember? The bonus you add to DCs is limited by PL.

[Arakune]

You can't have Transfer 20 with Area in a PL 10 game. You can have Transfer 10.

Why exactly?

[kpenguin]

Why exactly?

PL 10 mean that your Attack limit is +10 and your Damage limit is +10 (anything that forces a save is damage). With tradeoffs, this effectively means that your Attack limit and your Damage must add up to +20.

Having 20 ranks in Transfer means that you would have a Damage of +20, forcing a save of DC 30. This would only be rules legal if your attack bonus was +0 and even then unlikely to be accepted by a GM.

Since your Attack limit right now is set to +12 (your melee bonus), your Damage limit is +8. You could only have 8 ranks in Transfer.

[Arakune]

PL 10 mean that your Attack limit is +10 and your Damage limit is +10 (anything that forces a save is damage). With tradeoffs, this effectively means that your Attack limit and your Damage must add up to +20.

Having 20 ranks in Transfer means that you would have a Damage of +20, forcing a save of DC 30. This would only be rules legal if your attack bonus was +0 and even then unlikely to be accepted by a GM.

Since your Attack limit right now is set to +12 (your melee bonus), your Damage limit is +8. You could only have 8 ranks in Transfer.

But why? Isn't the max DC limited but not the max rank? Since no matter how high the ranks is, then the max DC whould be +8 but the secondary effects independent from PL should still scale at least.

[kpenguin]

It doesn't work that way. Additional ranks increase DC, no matter what. If you have 8 ranks, you have +8 DC. If you have 20 ranks, you have +20 DC. If that's over the limit, then you broke the rules.

The limit doesn't change to the DC to match itself. You change the ranks the match the limits.

[Arakune]

It doesn't work that way. Additional ranks increase DC, no matter what. If you have 8 ranks, you have +8 DC. If you have 20 ranks, you have +20 DC. If that's over the limit, then you broke the rules.

The limit doesn't change to the DC to match itself. You change the ranks the match the limits.

Meh, so much for an outnumbered, wounded guy int the campaign. Can you tell me the exact page quote?

[kpenguin]

I can't find an actual line that says what I said in the book, although the bit about how ability scores are limited by PL limits is telling.

Ability scores in general are limited to a bonus +5, but Strength and Constitution are specifically limited by Damage and Toughness caps. This means, even though the max for ability scores for PL 10 is 40, for Strength and Constitution its actually 30, sicne the cap for Damage and Toughness is +10 without tradeoffs. One could infer that this would apply similarly across the board.

An official ruling agrees with me.

[The Rose Dragon]

Since your Attack limit right now is set to +12 (your melee bonus), your Damage limit is +8. You could only have 8 ranks in Transfer.

That's wrong. It's a General (non-Targeted) Area effect and thus can have as many ranks as the PL.

[kpenguin]

That's wrong. It's a General (non-Targeted) Area effect and thus can have as many ranks as the PL.

Forgot that the Transfer was going to be an area attack.

Rose Dragon has the right of it. It can have 10 max ranks.

[Arakune]

Then how can I transfer more than 10pp? I just have to suck with it?

[kpenguin]

You could make it an attack and then shift around your points.

Don't forget, though, that since Transfer is a combination of Boost and Drain, the Boost is also limited by your PL.

[Arakune]

You could make it an attack and then shift around your points.

Don't forget, though, that since Transfer is a combination of Boost and Drain, the Boost is also limited by your PL.

Here goes my plan cause my 6+ enemies to fall uncounscious. There isn't a way to make then, or most of then, to be incapacited?

They all have heroic stats.

[kpenguin]

If you're fighting 6+ enemies by yourself and they're not using minion rules, then I suggest running.

[Arakune]

If you're fighting 6+ enemies by yourself and they're not using minion rules, then I suggest running.

That's my last resourse, but it's a complicated place since my char is currently working in the villain team in a PBP game. Either the DM is being sarcastic (I hope so) or he honestly belives my char and two more have good chances to win the figth. Never mind we didn't got a surprise round, or the fact that my char and one of his team mates are already staggered and the hero team is pretty much unharmed.

Probably he will make them win hands down (if using the norma rules) or lose by Deus Ex Machina since no one in my team some kind of mind control. Well, I could try, but then it would still be some kind of Deus ex Machina since it's the DM who is rolling the dice. If I have to run I want at least to hit one or two guys.

[Haven]

Then how can I transfer more than 10pp? I just have to suck with it?

I don't have my rule book on me, but I seem to recall there's a power feat that increases numeric values not related to effects that force saving throws, that moves them up by one on the table that governs those. I might be thinking of something else, but it's what you use to increase the area of effect of Illusion spells or the amount you can carry when teleporting.

[kpenguin]

You're thinking of Progression, but I'm not sure that applies here.

EDIT: 10 pp can be a lot. It'll reduce Toughness by 5 via Consitution, or 10 if we're talking about draining a Protection or Force Field. It can reduce an unmodified Strike by 10 or an unmodified Blast by 5.

If any of their ability scores are average (10) or less, you can drain them to zero. This will make them collapse (Strength), become paralyze (Dexterity), be in a dying state with a -5 on con checks to survive (Constitution), or put them into a coma (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma)

[Arakune]

You're thinking of Progression, but I'm not sure that applies here.

EDIT: 10 pp can be a lot. It'll reduce Toughness by 5 via Consitution, or 10 if we're talking about draining a Protection or Force Field. It can reduce an unmodified Strike by 10 or an unmodified Blast by 5.

If any of their ability scores are average (10) or less, you can drain them to zero. This will make them collapse (Strength), become paralyze (Dexterity), be in a dying state with a -5 on con checks to survive (Constitution), or put them into a coma (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma)

Most of them are combat oriented (so 10+ in pratically every psysical stat), and have an above averange values in either Int/Wis/Cha so it's guess game. Alvo, I'm the last in the initiative order. I need something more drastic.

Thinking about mind control being quite what I need (even if I don't issue commands they just stand still).