[4e] Halving HP

[kjones]

I've seen people on these boards propose halving HP across the board as a way to speed up combats (which can often fall into "mop-up" affairs) and make for a somewhat grittier game. Has anyone actually done this, especially in an ongoing campaign? If so, how has it worked for you?

[Apotheosis]

We did something similar in a couple of one-off sessions. It works reasonably, but it does make things more swingy. Powers that stun get much better, as you would expect, and if your players are willing to expend dailies and APs it's entirely possible for a solo to go down before it takes a single action.

But in an ongoing campaign...it might work better, because the players aren't going to blow all their resources on one or two fights. The issue again is that powers with prolonged effects get better because combat is getting shorter. Less attacks required to kill someone also means that crits are a bigger deal. I think. I'm just inferring that because it seems to make sense.

[Sir Homeslice]

I personally reduce HP by a quarter to a third and increase damage by 50%.

[Ninetail]

I've used a couple of similar methods, all of which work to some extent.

1. Monsters have 3/4 normal hp. Basically, this eliminates the last round or two of combat, where everyone knows the fight is basically over, but there's still some mopping up to do. It does make any given combat easier on the party and makes it consume fewer resources. Important characters still get full hp, though.

2. Monsters have 1/2 normal hp, but do double normal damage. Combat is still faster, but expected damage output per monster stays the same, meaning resource usage should be similar in the long run. It does lead to some spiky combats, when you look at them individually, though -- each hit or miss has twice the usual effect, so lucky or unlucky streaks get more pronounced.

3. The listed hp for the monster is a maximum. If a kobold has 24 hp, PCs might encounter a group of kobolds who have the following hp: 24, 21, 18, 16, 12. Stronger monsters get small static damage bonuses. Important characters always have full hp. This lends an old-school flavor (not every monster encountered is the same -- some are smaller or weaker than others), makes combats faster, keeps the expected damage output/resource usage relatively the same in many cases, and incentivizes going after the "big guy" first. It does mean a little more bookkeeping, though.

[HMS Invincible]

I've used a couple of similar methods, all of which work to some extent.

1. Monsters have 3/4 normal hp. Basically, this eliminates the last round or two of combat, where everyone knows the fight is basically over, but there's still some mopping up to do. It does make any given combat easier on the party and makes it consume fewer resources. Important characters still get full hp, though.

2. Monsters have 1/2 normal hp, but do double normal damage. Combat is still faster, but expected damage output per monster stays the same, meaning resource usage should be similar in the long run. It does lead to some spiky combats, when you look at them individually, though -- each hit or miss has twice the usual effect, so lucky or unlucky streaks get more pronounced.

3. The listed hp for the monster is a maximum. If a kobold has 24 hp, PCs might encounter a group of kobolds who have the following hp: 24, 21, 18, 16, 12. Stronger monsters get small static damage bonuses. Important characters always have full hp. This lends an old-school flavor (not every monster encountered is the same -- some are smaller or weaker than others), makes combats faster, keeps the expected damage output/resource usage relatively the same in many cases, and incentivizes going after the "big guy" first. It does mean a little more bookkeeping, though.

Some interesting thoughts, I'll try that.

I always try to feel the flow of the story/combat and if it is a climatic moment, I'll tack on/reduce the hp of enemies as needed so that attacks from PCs have the right feel for them.
Like I made one goblin go down in 2 hits, another in 1, and a third with normal hp. All were the same kind of goblin but certain players were angry or expending more resources to attack them so I made it so it hurt more.

[KIDS]

I've found that normal monsters have just fine hp as far as my games go, but solo monsters can use a bit of a nerf. I recently made one with 75% of intended hit points (120 instead of 145 or something like that) and it was exactly what was needed to make the fight duration optimal and dynamic instead of a boring slugfest to chip off the last hit points.

The higher level (compared to the party) the monster is, the more HP reduction becomes important. I was once in a lvl 2 game where we fought a lvl 4 solo and the fight lasted for over three hours, everyone just standing put and spamming at-wills until we all freaked out.

[Hal]

Well, halving HP for the players might get you back to that 3.X problem of, "Oh look, two monsters in a row landed a blow. You're dead." At least at low levels.

If that's what you want in the game, then that's fine. I don't remember that all too fondly, but these boards always seem evenly split on that point.

[Grynning]

One thing I kind of accidentally did in my 4th game but I'm considering implementing for future ones is a kind of variant on massive damage rules. Basically, if a player hit a monster with a spectacular crit or a well-described power that almost killed it, I would just say it was dead because it was more dramatic and sped things up a little bit. I don't really want to say that there's any hard math you can use to figure this out, but basically if they hit it so hard that the next attack is going to kill it for sure, just let that player get the kill.

Also important to remember - surrendering and fleeing. Players don't have to kill everything to defeat it and get XP, and good-aligned party members shouldn't just cut down running or disarmed foes. The Intimidate skill is useful for them to initiate it, but you can initiate it too if you know the combat's over and they've won. Any monster can know when it's time to run unless cornered, and intelligent baddies can just drop their weapon and give up if they're outnumbered and beat up to hell with a bunch of PC's bearing down on them.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Monsets can run away and/or surrender without an Intimidate check, if the DM thinks it fits with the characters.
I once had my Rogue stop an entire fight with a small tribe of Orcs by killing a couple and very loudly promising that the rest will live and be fed if they just lay down their arms and walk away. He even suggested that the docks of a nearby city may be interested in hiring workers.

I find that HPs work relativly well in the 4e game sI play, with only seemingly invincible NPCs (Nietveil Pathfinder still has the other players around the table reaching for their D20s and reading their inititave score and to-hit bonuses) lasting a very, very long time. (We dealt enough damage to Nietveil to kill him four times. This was with a character built exactly like a PC at only one level higher than the party. In contrast, he banged up the entire party really bad right after we took an Extended Rest).

[Zocelot]

I don't like having the PCs do any work, so it's just the monster's health and damage that I modify. Health gets cut in half for Elites and Solos, and down to 2/3rds for normal creatures. All monsters get %150 damage. It's worked very well for me, but it does help that I add extra health if the creature would die in the first round and it loses the extra damage.