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2009-07-14, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
PH p.77
A Jump check is included in your movement, so it
is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your
next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn)
must be a move action to complete the jump.
If your jump check is really good* and you are more than 5ft up in the air, you are practically out of reach… right? So, no-one can harm you with a melee attack until your next turn! (except with reach weapons or ranged attacks)
Am I right?
*For a standing high jump of 6ft you must beat a 48 DC jump check.
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2009-07-14, 12:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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- Cydonia
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
No, they can reach any square adjacent to them, including the ones above, and they can always jump to reach you. You would need to be pretty high up, like at least 15ft.
But ultimately yes, it is possible to jump yourself out of your enemies reach until your next round.
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2009-07-14, 12:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Germany
Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
I would make it 10 ft. high and only against medium characters, but yes.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
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2009-07-14, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Davis, California
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
In the jump section of the PHB it says that vertical reach of a medium creature is 8' high. The DC to jump more than 8' presumably higher than 64. That's basically an epic use of the Jump skill. And the opponent trying to hit them can just do a little hop to get themselves up there to hit the jumper. I'm not too worried about that happening...
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2009-07-14, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Athens, GR
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Good point there Anxe (reach 8ft).
Tell me something, the PH states that jump is included in your movement. With that in mind, you can't interrupt your movement to hit someone (exc. spring attack).
So, a "hop-up and hit" is out of the question, right? Can't jump (move), hit while in mid-air (interrupt movement and attack) and return to the ground. While is logically possible, I believe a feat or something is required to do this.
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2009-07-14, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Eastern NC
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Eh, jumping is a super-easy skill to buff. Start with max ranks and a high strength (starting 18, but 20 is possibly), and a level in Barbarian for Fast Movement. After that, grab 18 levels of Monk or something that advances Monk speed increase (100 ft. speed equals +28 to Jump checks). Bump Str up at each opportunity, get a tome/manual/wish and +6 item, and you've got Str 34. With just that, you've got a modifier of +63.
Add +2 synergy (Tumble, a Monk skill), +2 from Acrobatic, +3 Skill Focus, +4 from Run, and that's +74. And a +5 ring of jumping. Oh, and with Leap of the Heavens, that's from standing (i.e., no need to run 20 feet first.) A level of Exemplar will get you the ability to Take 10 on Jump checks. That's an automatic 89, which is a 22-foot jump straight up from standing. If you've got an ally or take Leadership, you can get a Sorcerer/Marshal that adds his Cha to your Jump checks AND can cast jump on you for another +10 bonus.
And that's just off the top of my head.Last edited by RTGoodman; 2009-07-14 at 12:53 AM.
The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922
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2009-07-14, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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2009-07-14, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
You're looking for Up The Walls: Find a convenient vertical surface and Tumble up it, reducing your speed to half. Make a 'Horizontal' jump, which sends you perpendicular to the wall, and then you can spend the rest of the round hovering. Piece of cake.
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2009-07-14, 01:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Athens, GR
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Ellery: "We will not be caught by surprise."
Entreri: "Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words."
Jarlaxle: "Then I am glad once again that you are on my side."
Entreri: "They've often said that too."
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2009-07-14, 01:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Or, get Boots of Agile Leaping. Or even better, enchant your Boots of Speed with the benefits of the Boots of Agile Leaping. That way, you can use Dexterity instead. Then again, Strength is still good.
After that, grab 18 levels of Monk or something that advances Monk speed increase (100 ft. speed equals +28 to Jump checks).
And a +5 ring of jumping.
Also, if you can somehow get ahold of the Hustle power, get it. Basically, replace your swift action with a move action. Useful for the next two rounds of speed.
Or, in any case, do the Chuck E. Cheeze build (however updated or fixed it may be), and max that Jump check. Touch the sky. Fall and get (max height/10, rounded down) d6 damage unless you have another Ring (this time, of Feather Fall)Retooler of D&D 3.5 (and 5e/Next) content. See here for more.
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2009-07-14, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
I once saw a feat somewhere that added DEX to Jump instead of STR.
But yeah Jump is perhaps the easiest skill to buff.
You could in theory hover in mid air for a single round.
If you had the ability to jump from standing (from the feat) then you can do it each round if I'm not mistaken (which I could be), as the land is automatic and then you may jump again as the move action.
Q: Could you throw a knife as a standard action.. or cast a spell as a standard action (with a concentration check) while hovering in the air??Current Avatar made by Pessimismrocks for the Battle for the little world - Fields of Blood game!
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2009-07-14, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- In his throne room.
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
And this is one of those places where a reasonable DM looks you in the eye and tells you to keep dreaming. Juke your Jump check high enough to make me believe in 6 seconds of hang time and we'll talk. Otherwise, we're going to mutually recognize that many rules in D&D are abstractions that are not necessarily conducive to verisimilitude in an ongoing collaborative storytelling experience.
If your game is one where the RAW are inviolate and replace basic layman's physics rather than attempting to simulate them, then knock yourself out with the power to mystically hover because you "ran out of movement" for the particular 6 second window of time in which you find yourself. Otherwise, leave first-aid-by-drowning and commoner-rail-guns in the realm on the theoretically absurd, where they belong.Minstrel Emeritus of the Elan Fan Club
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2009-07-14, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
A: No. If we're going to accept that you've "run out of movement," and are now hovering, it has to be because you've really run out of movement. If you've still got a standard action left to throw a knife, then you haven't really "run out," have you? You've still got a standard action left, which it would seem that you are now obliged to use to complete your movement into a space in which you can reasonably stop.
By way of illustration, a character with a 30' speed manages to leap 30' vertically into the air (don't ask how ). He's now got 30' of vertical movement needed to get him back down to the ground. Since he has not ended his movement in a legal space, he is obliged to use any remaining actions to make up the difference. It just so happens that his remaining standard action will net him 30' of movement in the form of a double-move. He is obliged to use it, in my opinion, since he cannot choose to float in mid-air without any means of support.
Let me ask a different question, though.
If a character uses the entirety of his movement to run off the edge of a cliff, does he hang in mid-air until his next round because he doesn't have enough "movement" to fall the 200' to his death on the rocks below?Minstrel Emeritus of the Elan Fan Club
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2009-07-14, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
That's exactly what I’ve said to my son!!! – But, then I pictured…those manga style – kungfu scenes with the hero making extreme leaps …and thought…”well… DnD is a fantasy game… it’ll be fun and cinematic…” so I decided to ask what you guys think of it.
I don’t like my players do this trick every round, and I have ways to discourage them using it…
(sorry, my english are not good, i'm a self-learner)Last edited by SethFahad; 2009-07-14 at 02:11 AM.
Ellery: "We will not be caught by surprise."
Entreri: "Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words."
Jarlaxle: "Then I am glad once again that you are on my side."
Entreri: "They've often said that too."
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2009-07-14, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- In his throne room.
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Well, if you're playing a Wuxia (Chinese epic mythical cinema) inspired game, then all the above considerations go right out the window. Six second hangtimes are par for the course if that's the overall flavor of the campaign world.
I'm basing my thoughts on the generic assumptions of the western swords & sorcery genre.Minstrel Emeritus of the Elan Fan Club
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2009-07-14, 01:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
I say allow this abuse of the jump rules, regardless of how physically possible they are. Then if anyone pulls it on you just say the words "I'm delaying my action. When he lands, I'll make a full attack against him".
Watch as your player/DM's dreams of an un-hittable character come crashing down around him, along with his springy freak.Trust me. I'm a geologist.
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2009-07-14, 02:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
That's a wonderfully inventive way of getting yourself impaled by your enemies.
5' adjustment. Set spear against the ground. Take careful aim for groin region. Ready action to impale. Wait for automatic win.
Hell - as DM, I'd consider that a coup-de-grace.
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2009-07-14, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
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- Athens, GR
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Last edited by SethFahad; 2009-07-14 at 02:08 AM.
Ellery: "We will not be caught by surprise."
Entreri: "Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words."
Jarlaxle: "Then I am glad once again that you are on my side."
Entreri: "They've often said that too."
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2009-07-14, 02:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Footsteps of the Divine, from Complete Champion, gives you a small boost to speed for rounds/caster level. If you discharge the spell prematurely, you get a boost to speed for one round equal to the number of rounds left of duration times 10. So if you had 3 rounds left, you get a 30 foot burst of speed for a round.
If you happened to persist the spell....
No. I think there is a max distance you fall each round.
You can't delay a full round action.
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2009-07-14, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- In his throne room.
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Minstrel Emeritus of the Elan Fan Club
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2009-07-14, 02:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
I don't think that's right. You can't ready a full-round action, but you can certainly delay your place in the initiative order. The difference being, of course, that delaying means you have to let the jumping character get his attack in before you retaliate, since a delayed set of actions cannot be used to interrupt.
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2009-07-14, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-07-14, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Athens, GR
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Ellery: "We will not be caught by surprise."
Entreri: "Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words."
Jarlaxle: "Then I am glad once again that you are on my side."
Entreri: "They've often said that too."
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2009-07-14, 02:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- In his throne room.
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Not so terribly much, since falling damage is lessened if you've purposefully jumped (to be a rules-lawyer, it specifically states that falling damage is lessened when you're purposefully jumping down, but I'd rule that any character able to make a vertical leap high enough to risk falling damage upon landing is probably going to qualify for the reduction, since he's got the training to get that much air in the first place).
Minstrel Emeritus of the Elan Fan Club
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2009-07-14, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
A ruling from which - if combined with my earlier assertion that you cannot choose to use any remaining actions for anything other than completing movement if your move action leaves you in a place you cannot reasonably spend the round - it follows that you'd need to be able to vertically leap to a height in excess of your doubled movement (minus any running start) in order for the one-round hangtime problem to ever present itself.
In other words, you'd have to run out of movement while still ascending if you wanted to remain airborne until next round. Once you reach the apex of your jump, falling rules take over and you're no longer using your own "movement" to get back to earth.Minstrel Emeritus of the Elan Fan Club
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2009-07-14, 02:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Last edited by SethFahad; 2009-07-14 at 02:53 AM.
Ellery: "We will not be caught by surprise."
Entreri: "Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words."
Jarlaxle: "Then I am glad once again that you are on my side."
Entreri: "They've often said that too."
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2009-07-14, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Houston, TX
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Jumping is a part of movement. That means jumping that high would provoke an AoO.
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2009-07-14, 03:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Yes. This. Unless, of course, you could make a DC 25 Tumble check as part of your leap (which most any character who was planning to pull this kind of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon stuff would be able to do). Then you could make that leap without worrying about much of anything (see my other thread on the Trouble with T[r]umble).
Last edited by Twilight Jack; 2009-07-14 at 03:16 AM.
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2009-07-14, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Huh.. Why people say that you hover 6 seconds above ground if you jump and don't have more movement, waiting for your next turn?
To me it sounds like when you think of battle, everyone is standing still while one person does his move.. Really??
Everything still goes on while you have your turn, the rules just try to make it simple to play out. So jumping a really big distance then you can move in your turn just means that your jump is so long that others get to act while you are mid-air..
No hovering around here! except if you can hover, sure..
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2009-07-14, 04:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
Re: Jump Question (you can't touch me if you can't reach me)
Last edited by jcsw; 2009-07-14 at 05:21 AM.
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