Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 74
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Like the title states, I have decided I am going to finally attempt it - I am going to do what so few people have the patience or virtue for and crack down and reveiw every spell to make spellcasting a little less.... ZOMGWTFHAXORZSUPRISEBUTTSECKSBBQ (To say it politely).

    For a long time, people have complained about magic - "sniffle: Bad wizard time stop spammed and delayed fireballz mez... wha!", most of these complaints are unfounded and caused by dm ignorance/lazyness/player abuse. The usual stuff, of course. But, then again their are just those few spells out their that just scream 'spank me till reality moo's and comes home!'

    For this task, I am going to need a tad bit of help however. I am a bit of a wizard lover - thus I have a slightly 'veiled' veiw of some spells others may find broken. So I ask of my fellow playgrounders this;

    Find all -player's handbook/core- 3.5 spells you think are broken (either to overpowered OR to underpowered). Explain why, please, you beleive those spells are to strong or weak, and a possible suggestion to fix them.

    You can all post the same spells repeatably/individually - I want to see what everyones personal opinion of as many spells as possible. So if someone above you posted up a spell you wanted to rate/say was overpowered, but for different reasons? Please, re-post it and explain your veiws.

    Keep in mind - I only care about -spells-; Not metamagic feats, prestige classes, or magical items, etc. So try to avoid bringing them up if possible.

    One idea I am keeping in mind is reverting magic to a Mana system simular to the psion's power point usage and giving all arcane spell's Augment abilities. I do not see why not - I found the system for psionic's to be interesting (Despite some things [-cough-thrallmind-cough-] being ungodly broken).

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Well, some pressing candidates for alteration are the 15-minute workday/guaranteed escape selection - Contingency, Rope Trick, Teleport, Greater Teleport and Word of Recall, for example. They are problematic simply because they give players more control than they should have over the flow of an adventure.

    These can make most proactive stories stupidly easy, no matter how badly you play. Which would be fine, but wizards can also shut down most reactive stories as well.

    Of course, you could homebrew counter-teleportation spells, and the same goes for counter-contingency spells. It might be better to tackle the problem at its source, however.
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2009-07-14 at 05:32 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zaggab's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2006

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    I dislike save-or-die (finger of death, slay living etc.) and save-or-practically die spells (sleep, hold monster etc.) because I think they are anticlimatic and completely bypasses normal combat mechanics (though I know that not everyone has that opinion, and someone will probably defend them, but anyway).

    I also dislike spells that trivializes certain aspects of adventure, like the aforemention get-anywhere, escape anything spells. In my campaign, teleport and greater teleport has a 10-minute casting time, and requires the caster to have set up special "anchors" to be able to teleport anywhere (max 1 anchor/caster level). So no instantly travelling to a place you've never been before.

    I also dislike spells like comprehend languages and tounges, as they tend to ruin things very quickly.
    Yay!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Hmm - my attempt to fix the teleport problem a little.


    God I wanted to add some kinda mutation chance on mishaps... But alas, I am not "THAT" evil.

    Step 1: Reduced range of teleport, increased off-target/simular place/mishap chances, increased mishap damage from 1d10 to 2d6.

    Step 2: Made Greater Teleport more like the original teleport spell. But it still has a small chance of mishap.

    Step 3: Made the original "Greater Teleport" into Major Teleport, a 9th level conjuration spell.

    Teleport
    Conjuration (Teleportation)
    Level: Sor/Wiz 5, Travel 5
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 minute
    Range: Personal and touch
    Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
    Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)

    This spell instantly transports you to a designated destination, which may be as distant as 50 miles per caster level. Interplanar travel is not possible. You can bring along objects as long as their weight does not exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent (see below) per three caster levels. Two small creatures count as one Medium creature, two Tiny creatures count as one Small creature, a Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you. As with all spells where the range is personal and the target is you, you need not make a saving throw, nor is spell resistance applicable to you. Only objects held or in use (attended) by another person receive saving throws and spell resistance.

    You must have visited the destination in person or at least veiwed it enough times to become intimiately knowledgable about that location. The clearer your mental image, the more likely the teleportation works. Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible.

    To see how well the teleportation works, roll d% and consult the Teleport table. Refer to the following information for definitions of the terms on the table.

    Familiarity
    “Very familiar” is a place where you have been very often and where you feel at home. “Studied carefully” is a place you know well, either because you can currently see it, you’ve been there often, or you have used other means (such as scrying) to study the place for at least one hour. “Seen casually” is a place that you have seen more than once but with which you are not very familiar. “Viewed once” is a place that you have seen once, possibly using magic.

    “False destination” is a place that does not truly exist or if you are teleporting to an otherwise familiar location that no longer exists as such or has been so completely altered as to no longer be familiar to you. When traveling to a false destination, roll 1d20+80 to obtain results on the table, rather than rolling d%, since there is no real destination for you to hope to arrive at or even be off target from.

    On Target
    You appear where you want to be.

    Off Target
    You appear safely a random distance away from the destination in a random direction. Distance off target is 1d10x1d10% of the distance that was to be traveled. The direction off target is determined randomly

    Similar Area
    You wind up in an area that’s visually or thematically similar to the target area, but not exactly. This can lead you to vastly different areas within the range of the teleport spell. Generally, you appear in the closest similar place within range. If no such area exists within the spell’s range, the spell simply fails instead.

    Mishap
    You and anyone else teleporting with you have gotten “scrambled.” You each take 2d6 points of damage, and you reroll on the chart to see where you wind up. For these rerolls, roll 1d20+80. Each time “Mishap” comes up, the characters take more damage and must reroll.

    {table=head]Familiarity|On Target|Off Target|Similar Area|Mishap

    Very familiar|
    01-93
    |
    94-99
    |
    100
    |
    --
    |

    Studied carefully|
    01-89
    |
    90-95
    |
    96-98
    |
    99-100
    |

    Seen casually|
    01-85
    |
    86-91
    |
    92-96
    |
    97-100
    |

    Veiwed once|
    01-81
    |
    82-87
    |
    88-94
    |
    95-100
    |

    False destination|
    (1d20+80)
    |
    --
    |
    81-92
    |
    93-100
    |[/table]




    Teleport, Greater
    Conjuration (Teleportation)
    Level: Sor/Wiz 7, Travel 7

    This spell functions like teleport, except as follows. This spell instantly transports you to a designated destination which may be as distant as 100 miles per caster level. Interplanar travel is still not possible. Use the following chart to determine how well the teleportation works.

    {table=head]Familiarity|On Target|Off Target|Similar Area|Mishap

    Very familiar|
    01-98
    |
    99
    |
    100
    |
    --
    |

    Studied carefully|
    01-95
    |
    96-97
    |
    98-99
    |
    100
    |

    Seen casually|
    01-92
    |
    93-95
    |
    96-98
    |
    99-100
    |

    Veiwed once|
    01-89
    |
    90-93
    |
    94-96
    |
    97-100
    |

    False destination|
    (1d20+80)
    |
    --
    |
    81-94
    |
    95-100
    |[/table]




    Teleport, Major
    Conjuration (Teleportation)
    Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Travel 9
    Casting Time: 1 full round action

    This spell functions like teleport, except that there is no range limit and there is no chance you arrive off target. In addition, you need not have seen the destination, but in that case you must have at least a reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting. If you attempt to teleport with insufficient information (or with misleading information), you disappear and simply reappear in your original location. Interplanar travel is not possible.
    Last edited by Jane_Smith; 2009-07-14 at 06:57 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Utility magic is really a 'needs work' aspect of the game, so you might want to have a look at that.

    In essence, good ideas for improving utility magic would include:

    • Longer casting times
    • Subtler but more variable effects
    • The option to bind the spell into a 'charm' or scroll, usable by anyone else, and either as metamagic or an inbuilt option.
    • Concentration requirements
    • Removal of absolutes.


    This makes utility magic more useful to a party, and less effective at shutting down skills.

    Some other spells in need of work:

    • Freedom of Movement
    • All [energy] Immunity spells
    • Death Ward
    • Spell Turning


    These are all problematic simply because they are absolute "The recipient is unaffected by X, Y or Z" spells which grant benefits which should only be granted to creatures for which the hazards these spells defend against simply make no sense (so fire elementals, and only fire elementals, should have fire immunity).

    Then there is the polymorph tree. A start is to simply note that you cannot gain any spellcasting abilities or equipment, no matter how they are described in the monster entry.
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2009-07-15 at 05:09 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Nice rework of teleport, it seems logical to have a bunch of these.

    Of course the major ones to deal with will be polymorph, shapechange, etc. If you divide them into several spells, don't make each one for different forms like Pathfinder; I find it makes them less realistic. (ie. You can turn me into a dragon but not a frog?!)

    circle of death seems terrible; by the time you get it, you aren't fighting anything that it could affect unless you go up against an army of NPCs. I'd probably raise the 9 HD limit to something like 15 HD. I mean, sleep does pretty much the same thing and it's a 1st level spell. If necessary, maybe make circle of death 7th level, but make it more powerful.

    And along the same lines, sleep and deep slumber might need to have their hp caps raised too.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    When I looked at Circle of Death and Finger of Death, I changed them to a small hitpoint cap and a specific anti-resurrection effect for anyone killed. You could always try that.

    Oh yeah, and I think disintegrate deserves a bigger brother. Although disintegrate may be on the 'needs work' pile as it stands.
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2009-07-14 at 07:28 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    I'll put up some really underpowered or needs to be cut spells....

    Virtue... I know, a Orison for clerics, but seriously? who uses this spell??

    Bane... Another Cleric one -1 on attack rolls and saves against fear? Really? Doom is the same level and is -2 on attack, damage, saves, and checks... Why would anything cast Bane??

    More to come...
    Avatar painstakingly created by the greatest, Assassin 89

    I Am A: Neutral Good Human Cleric (4th Level)
    Spoiler
    Show

    Ability Scores:
    Strength-13
    Dexterity-13
    Constitution-16
    Intelligence-17
    Wisdom-14
    Charisma-15

    Completely random lol

    "So you're suggesting that I put down my sword, you put down your rock, and we try and kill each other like civilized people?"
    "I could always kill you with the rock..."

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Nov 2008

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Also, warp wood and wood shape should probably be fused into a single spell. My playing group ran into them only once during our entire campaign setting, and they're rarely used even without being split in two. One option is making a second, higher-level spell which could affect objects of larger than Small size, or within a longer range.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Roc Ness's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Gilbness?

    This is one of those Player-Creativity ones, like them illusions. I just thought it may lead lowering a bit.

    Didn't somebody have a sig that said:

    You cast Gilbness
    You tell the BBEG that he is a Waffle
    BBEG: I want syrup. NOW

    Pokedex #999: Roc Ness
    Avvie by Serpentine.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion View Post
    • Subtler but more variable effects
    I agree with most of your points, but I'm not sure where you're going with this one--it's hard to have a more subtle teleport, for instance, or a more variable magic mouth. Are you talking about variable as in teleport mishap chance, or something else?
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Spoiler
    Show


    Notes: Made circle of death do damage - basicly a higher level negitive energy, wider-spread 'fireball' in a sense now that also heals undead. Perfect for any zombie invasion force!

    Circle of Death
    Necromancy [Death]
    Level: Sor/Wiz 6
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 full round action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: Living creatures within a 40-ft.-radius burst
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    A circle of death attempts to snuff out the life force of living creatures, causing them tremendous pain and suffering.

    This spell deals 1d6 negitive energy damage per caster level (maximum 20d6) to all living creatures caught in the area of effect. Undead in the area of effect are healed for that amount of damage instead. If a living creature receives enough damage from this spell to put it below 0 hit points, and fails it fortitude save, it automatically dies and its body crumbles to dust. Creatures killed by this spell cannot be raised by any means except for a Resurrection spell or greater.

    Material Component
    The powder of a crushed black pearl with a minimum value of 500 gp.



    Notes: Made fingure of death require a melee touch attack in addition to allowing a saving throw for partial and being effected by spell resistance. I figured forcing the caster into melee range and giving the creature -3- ways of resisting this 1-hit-ko spell was the little bit of balance it needed. Plus - says fingure of death... why did it have close range before? Did you flip them the bird to kill them?...


    Finger of Death
    Necromancy [Death]
    Level: Drd 8 Sor/Wiz 7
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: One living creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    You can slay any one living creature you touch. You must make a successful melee touch attack against the target. The target is entitled to a Fortitude saving throw to survive the attack. If the save is successful, the creature instead takes 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). The subject might die from damage even if it succeeds on its saving throw. If a living creature receives enough damage from this spell to put it below 0 hit points or fails it fortitude save, it automatically dies and its body crumbles to dust. Creatures killed by this spell cannot be raised by any means except for a Resurrection spell or greater.
    Last edited by Jane_Smith; 2009-07-14 at 08:21 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    I agree with most of your points, but I'm not sure where you're going with this one--it's hard to have a more subtle teleport, for instance, or a more variable magic mouth. Are you talking about variable as in teleport mishap chance, or something else?
    A few spells are probably exempt, but a lot of low-level, flexible spells which reward creativity would be a nice addition to the game, and would be a big improvement on the current suite of:

    • Silence (cut it down to mute, with a save?)
    • Find Traps (OK, but too specific. Should be combined into a more general spell)
    • Knock (see Find Traps - maybe a 'machine empathy' spell?)
    • Invisibility (not broken, but I'd like to see a few changes to this one)
    • Greater Invisibility (actually not that subtle at all. Not broken, but I don't like it)
    • Disguise Self
    • Magic Mouth and Tenser's Floating Disc - useful, but not good enough
    • Rope Trick (as if flow control wasn't bad enough...)
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2009-07-14 at 08:18 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Notes: Buffed bane and bless. I added a 'polar opposite' of Doom, an Inspire spell to counter it. Also, made Doom properly an Enchantment (Compulsion) [Fear, Mind-affecting] spell - necromancy does not mess with peoples minds. Wrong school wotc, shame on you.

    Bane
    Enchantment (Compulsion) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
    Level: Clr 1
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: 50 ft.
    Area: All enemies within 50 ft.
    Duration: 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Bane fills your enemies with fear and doubt. Each affected creature takes a -1 penalty on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a -1 penalty on attack and damage rolls.

    Bane counters and dispels bless.




    Bless
    Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: Clr 1, Pal 1
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: 50 ft.
    Area: The caster and all allies within a 50-ft. burst, centered on the caster
    Duration: 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

    Bless fills your allies with courage and resolve. Each affected ally gains a +1 bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

    Bless counters and dispels bane.




    Doom
    Enchantment (Compulsion) [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
    Level: Clr 1
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Target: One living creature
    Duration: 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: Will negates
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    This spell fills a single subject with a feeling of horrible dread that causes it to become shaken. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

    Doom counters and dispels Inspire.




    Inspire
    Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
    Level: Clr 1
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Target: One living creature
    Duration: 1 min./level
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

    This spell fills a single subject with a powerful feeling of empowerment, giving it a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

    Inspire counters and dispels doom.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Akron
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    Hmm - my attempt to fix the teleport problem a little.


    God I wanted to add some kinda mutation chance on mishaps... But alas, I am not "THAT" evil.
    Make a Half-Wall template. Remove Curse or something at least as powerful as the teleport spell in order to sort things out for the misguided teleporter.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Roc Ness View Post
    Gilbness?
    Note: That spell was so broken it made me want to cry. -fixes and NEEEEERFS with a NERF BAT-

    Glibness
    Transmutation
    Level: Brd 1
    Components: S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 10 min./level (D)

    Your speech becomes fluent and more believable. You gain a +2 insight bonus on Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words. This bonus doesn’t apply to other uses of the Bluff skill such as feinting in combat, creating a diversion to hide, or communicating a hidden message via innuendo.

    If a magical effect is used against you that would detect your lies or force you to speak the truth the user of the effect must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 10 + your caster level + your charisma modifier to succeed. Failure means the effect does not detect your lies or force you to speak only the truth.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Immunity buffs should feature an opposed caster level check that includes spell level in the roll/DC to retain effectiveness versus an individual exposure when their bearer is subject to hostile magic they protect against (death ward vs finger of death, FoM vs Grease, etc...). Failure means they do not protect against that particular exposure (though they can shield the bearer from others).

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    I usually don't care much about high-level spells that completely break reality and/or the wizard class. What annoys me are low-level utility spells that make other classes unnecessary. Don't get me wrong, the wizard needs something to do other than fighting, especially in my campaigns, where there's usually little to no combat.
    However, one example of what I dislike:
    Knock. Opens every lock. Why do you need locksmiths or rogues anymore? I'd suggest limiting that spell to automatically dispelling arcane lock and maybe hold portal and opening locks up to a certain complexity, such as DC20.
    There are others like it, I'll go dig throug the lists later.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Knock (and like spells) should at most feature a caster level check opposed to the DC of the object they are trying to manipulate.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    Immunity buffs should feature an opposed caster level check that includes spell level in the roll/DC to retain effectiveness versus an individual exposure when their bearer is subject to hostile magic they protect against (death ward vs finger of death, FoM vs Grease, etc...). Failure means they do not protect against that particular exposure (though they can shield the bearer from others).
    They should generally take the form of a large save/check bonus and possibly a secondary effect (like 'does not take any damage on a failed save' for Death Ward). There are a few reasons for it - among them things like Druids curb-stomping the god of venom, and monks slaughtering the god of disease. It also means that a FoM wizard (however they achieve this) is still going to get grappled by anything that happens to be good at grappling.

    Raising Dimension Door to a 2-round casting time could also help cut down on wizard mobility. In particular, they won't be able to cast it to easily escape from any threatening situation.

    Feather Fall should probably prevent a limited amount of damage, just so monks have one less reason to cry themselves to sleep at night.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    You're attempting something big. May I suggest that you do so in alphabetical order? Should make the work easier to organize.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion View Post
    Feather Fall should probably prevent a limited amount of damage, just so monks have one less reason to cry themselves to sleep at night.
    In this particular case, it should probably be the other way around--Slow Fall could easily negate all damage to start with instead of scaling slowly, since a wall is required anyway, and feather fall could remain the same. As your comment shows, there's nothing wrong with the spell (which is what the revision is addressing, problem spells) except that there's a class ability that does it worse.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2008

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion
    They should generally take the form of a large save/check bonus and possibly a secondary effect (like 'does not take any damage on a failed save' for Death Ward). There are a few reasons for it - among them things like Druids curb-stomping the god of venom, and monks slaughtering the god of disease. It also means that a FoM wizard (however they achieve this) is still going to get grappled by anything that happens to be good at grappling.
    I think caster level checks should be involved in some form. It's not right that a caster half the level of another is able to amass such huge resistance to the latter's spells with a singular casting.

    Second, "immunity" spells if we go this route should permit a save against spells they protect against even when one is normally not permitted, with possible exceptions (say in the case of a deity).

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    I think caster level checks should be involved in some form. It's not right that a caster half the level of another is able to amass such huge resistance to the latter's spells with a singular casting.

    Second, "immunity" spells if we go this route should permit a save against spells they protect against even when one is normally not permitted, with possible exceptions (say in the case of a deity).
    You've pretty much hit the nail on the head there, actually. The point is that an immunity buff should not make a character immune to an attack used by a much more powerful being - or, alternatively, that any tactic should be usable even at high levels rather than being shut down by one or two spells.

    Essentially, there is a difference between Death Ward being a very good idea and Death Ward shgutting down a whole selection of much higher level death attacks.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    One major change I think could help certain spells is allowing multiple types of saving throws.

    For example Finger of Death. You point at a creature and zap, it makes a fortitude throw or dies. But why couldn't a fast character move out of the way of your finger?

    I'd give many spells two different saving throws, but a character can only choose and attempt one kind of throw when a spell is cast at them. Each throw could have different attributes, for example a the reflex throw DC for Finger of Death might be higher than the fortitude DC, but if successful would completely avoid all damage. Some spells would still only have one kind of throw.

    That would add an interesting tactical element to the game. A powerful spell is coming your way. Do you gamble on the more difficult throw to avoid all harm, or accept taking some damage and go with the easier throw?
    Last edited by Lysander; 2009-07-14 at 10:24 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Problematic spells, for me, generally fall into three groups. First group are spells that make other classes obsolete. Basically they step on other people's toes. Second group are spells that aren't in themselves awesome, but allow for brokenness in combination with others. Third group are spells that are a little bit too powerful for their level - they get too much damage, don't have saves, are not balanced for some reason, etc.

    Group 1
    Divine Power
    Wind Wall
    Knock
    Detect Secret Doors
    The Polymorph school

    Group 2
    Time Stop
    Contingency
    Celerity

    Group 3
    Shivering Touch
    Orb spells
    Ray of Stupidity

    A fourth group is not as problematic, given a decent DM, but as written can lead to abuse due to vague wording. Several Divination spells fall into this category (Augury, Divination, Foresight, Commune, Legend Lore, Contact Other Plane). For some of these spells, a DM who hasn't prepared for players to use these spells can inadvertently spill important information about things that the players aren't supposed to know yet. For others, the meaning can be stretched to allow players additional information or defenses that they really shouldn't be able to have.

    EDIT: And, a fifth group - the MAD group. Not multiple ability, I mean Mutually Assured Destruction. The spells that players don't want to use because the DM will use them against them. The spells the DM doesn't want to use because the players will use it against him. However you look at it, these spells result in No Fun.
    - Dispel Magic. The mechanics are godawful. At higher levels, I have not found anything that slows down a game as much as a single Dispel Magic spell. Not even a pizza break.
    - Gate. Easily abusable on all levels.
    - Disjunction. Scary, dangerous, able to destroy world-threatening MacGuffins in a single doom-laden blast. This "Wizard's Suitcase Nuke" should never have been anything but an Epic spell.
    Last edited by Telonius; 2009-07-14 at 10:49 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    Spoiler
    Show


    Notes: Made circle of death do damage - basicly a higher level negitive energy, wider-spread 'fireball' in a sense now that also heals undead. Perfect for any zombie invasion force!

    Circle of Death
    Necromancy [Death]
    Level: Sor/Wiz 6
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 full round action
    Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
    Area: Living creatures within a 40-ft.-radius burst
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    A circle of death attempts to snuff out the life force of living creatures, causing them tremendous pain and suffering.

    This spell deals 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 20d4) to all living creatures caught in the area of effect. Undead in the area of effect are healed for that amount of damage instead. If a living creature receives enough damage from this spell to put it below 0 hit points, and fails it fortitude save, it automatically dies and its body crumbles to dust. Creatures killed by this spell cannot be raised by any means except for a Resurrection spell or greater.

    Material Component
    The powder of a crushed black pearl with a minimum value of 500 gp.
    Shouldn't this be negative energy, instead of untyped damage? And I suppose the maximum is 20d6....

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Fixed that. :x

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    erikun's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    Let's see here....

    • Conjuration spells that duplicate (or outperform) Evocation spells. I'm looking at you, Orb line.
    • Transformation spells that duplicate everything. Mainly a problem with Polymorph, though.
    • Spells that render skills redundant. Hold Portal, Disguise Self, and Jump are okay because they just add bonuses to skills. Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, and Knock are not so much. Spells that detect obviously magical sources (Detect Magic, Detect Undead) are okay.


    Recommendations? Limit Comprehend Languages to one language per casting, turn Detect Secret Doors into a skill bonus, and... I'm not sure about knock. I liked the idea of a psionic version giving you effective max skill ranks for the duration of the power. (So using Psionic Knock would give you class level + 3 skill points in Open Lock while it is active.)

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas, America
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Big-Friggin Spell Revision Project

    -whacks- ORB IS NOT CORE D= I am not fixing or dealing with anything off source - That is a futile to even "TRY" to accomplish due to the sheer number of off-source material.

    As for knock - Maybe 1 casting only opens 1 lock/seal/etc/etc/etc per casting, with a DC of 20 or less; or lets you gain a bonus to Strength checks equal to your caster level (max +10 or so) to break the door/chest/seal.

    Could make a higher level version that unlocks 1 lock/seal/etc per casting no matter its DC, allows a higher bonus to strength checks to break down doors/etc (like +20 max), and maybe even makes the doorway act like projectiles/sharpnel to everything in a cone from the other side if successful broken? I think I have seen something like that somewhere, I will have to research.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •