Did anyone find Roy's assumption to be kind of funny and satirical?

[paladinofshojo]

When Roy stated that if mortals weren't sure were they would end up in the Afterlife, he stated that there would be a lot less warfare. But look at us, we aren't sure where we'll end up after death but we manage to kill eachother just fine.........

[SPoD]

Yes, this is largely the entire point of the strip.

[Spiryt]

That crossed my mind.

Altough the thing is that many people who cause(d) violence seem to be pretty sure where they go after death.

[Bibliomancer]

Yes, this is largely the entire point of the strip.

Meta[gaming]physical irony...is there any better kind?

Note: this is not a rhetorical question. I am challenging the greatest minds of the forum to invent a better form of irony.

PS: the above statement might or might not be in itself ironic.

[Ancalagon]

Meta[gaming]physical irony...is there any better kind?

PS: the above statement might or might not be in itself ironic.

Sarcasm and cynicism. God, that was simple.

[y2kyle89]

y

I'm as clever as I am witty.

[Bibliomancer]

Sarcasm and cynicism. God, that was simple.

Personally, I find myself too jaded to appreciate cynicism.

[Conuly]

Note: this is not a rhetorical question. I am challenging the greatest minds of the forum to invent a better form of irony.

Well, Roy's sword is part iron (steel, anyway) and part starmetal, so you could call it "iron-y"... right?

[paladinofshojo]

Well, Roy's sword is part iron (steel, anyway) and part starmetal, so you could call it "iron-y"... right?

Fail................

[Conuly]

Oh gosh. You just rained on my wedding day :(

I guess it's like when you write a whole song about irony, and everybody points out that nothing in it is ironic at all. Isn't that ironic? Don't you think?

[Porthos]

Oh gosh. I guess it's like when you write a whole song about irony, and everybody points out that nothing in it isn't ironic at all. Isn't that ironic?

Irony: A word that, ironically enough, is fairly hard to define in simple terms.

[Bibliomancer]

Forum, I apologize. I retract the challenge.

[Random832]

Congratulations on getting the joke.

And thank you so very much for explaining it to me, I'd completely missed it

[NerfTW]

Irony: A word that, ironically enough, is fairly hard to define in simple terms.

How so?

Irony: the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning

Also situations that convey something other than the expected result.

[Porthos]

How so?

Because the word "irony" is used in far too many situations that isn't ironic at all. That famous song, for one. But puttng that aside for a moment, over time the actual term "irony" has expanded to cover situations that weren't originally covered by the word. And above and beyond that, there are the competing basic definitons of the term. And when some people try to define the term, sometimes they'll flail about and end up using ironic situations as examples as opposed to actually defining the term in simple language.

All of this might, and I stress might, strike one as ironic.

Plus, you know, I was attempting to make a silly joke.

[hamishspence]

I still like Terry Pratchett's

"It's like goldy and bronzy, only its made of iron."

[Pr0tag0nist]

i dont get it...

i m sure i for myself kill a lot less because i dont know what happens in afterlife with them or me...

if i kill now and get arrested like almost my entire life.. i propably ruined about every meaning my life could have by wasting it in a tiny little prison cell...

with an afterlife i would know that i cant really waste time when there is infinity of it after death... so what the hell?

[Harr]

How so?

Irony: the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning

That would actually be sarcasm.

Also situations that convey something other than the expected result.

Closer, but still no.

Irony is when you take certain action in order to avoid a specific result, and those actions that you took end up causing the very result you wanted to avoid.

For example, I'm having my party in Los Angeles tomorrow, but today I see some dark clouds in the sky. I really don't want it to rain on my party so I call everybody and make a huge effort to move the party to Sacramento. Next day, it is clear and sunny in Los Angeles, and pours a thunderstorm in Sacramento and on my party. That's irony.

Or, I buy a pair of pants for a job interview tomorrow. I look at the small bag that the clerk is going to put my pants in and, not wanting to get them all wrinkled for my interview, say "Never mind, I'll just wear them home." On my way home, I slip and fall in a puddle, ruining the pants. That's irony.

For comedic irony you can look at Jon Stewart: "So we're going to fix the economy... by giving billions of dollars to the people who broke it?" Dilbert: "Your assistance is required in a meeting where we will discuss the need to have less meetings." Groucho Marx: "I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member."

=====

As for the comic, yeah it's probably meant to satirize the fact that people in this world supposedly don't know what's in the afterlife... EXCEPT that the people in our world causing the most war by far are precisely people who believe that they know 100% for sure exactly what they will get in the afterlife.

I won't say more than that because then the thread will start to veer off into politics/religion and get locked.

[Conuly]

Actually, Harr, the word "irony" has several meanings, some of which you just rejected.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

Nerf's defintion is one of the primary definitions given in Merriam-Webster.

[Harr]

But puttng that aside for a moment, over time the actual term "irony" has expanded to cover situations that weren't originally covered by the word. And above and beyond that, there are the competing basic definitons of the term. And when some people try to define the term, sometimes they'll flail about and end up using ironic situations as examples as opposed to actually defining the term in simple language.

True, but only in casual, everyday conversation with people who don't write for a living. Which is of course the most common situation... but "irony" as a literary device is still very well-defined and recognizable.

[Porthos]

Continuing the discussion of the term "irony", look at how much fun Wikipedia has with the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

Yes, yes, I know. Wikipedia. Still (the point stands).

I think this part of the entry describes what I was getting at with my original post:

Henry Watson Fowler, in The King's English, says “any definition of irony—though hundreds might be given, and very few of them would be accepted—must include this, that the surface meaning and the underlying meaning of what is said are not the same."

It's the part that the definition of the word is somewhat elusive and morphic which is what I was referring to in my original post.

[Harr]

Actually, Harr, the word "irony" has several meanings, some of which you just rejected.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irony

Nerf's defintion is one of the primary definitions given in Merriam-Webster.

Well, I can't argue with a dictionary obviously, but it sounds to me like they are describing sarcasm, not irony.

[Conuly]

Well, I can't argue with a dictionary obviously, but it sounds to me like they are describing sarcasm, not irony.

That's because language changes. Definitions of words expand to take in new meanings, or contract to lose old meanings.

I don't know how lexicographers do their arcane craft, but I tend to trust their judgment.

[Porthos]

True, but only in casual, everyday conversation with people who don't write for a living. Which is of course the most common situation... but "irony" as a literary device is still very well-defined and recognizable.

Yes, but, and not to get on too meta of a level here, words get their meaning from everyday conversations and usage. If the General Public consistanly over time use a word differently from "dictionary definiton" the actual "dictionary definition" will eventually morph to the "accepted" usage by the General Public. This has happened time and time again.

Language evolves. Sometimes slowly, sometime not.

Or to put it another way, I am quite sure that there are plenty of writers that use "irony" in the casual "synonym for incongruous or coincidental" meaning.

Shoiuld they? That's where I get off the meta train and leave such discussions to literary types.

[Porthos]

Ironically enuf, the posters in this thread (myself included) seem to be making several near identical points simultaneously.

Ah, the wonders of Internet Communications.

[NerfTW]

Because the word "irony" is used in far too many situations that isn't ironic at all. That famous song, for one.

The song is called Ironic because it's ironic that a song so named has no actual irony in it at all. Straight from the horse's mouth. (Or Alanis Morrisette, as it were)

[averagejoe]

Well, I can't argue with a dictionary obviously, but it sounds to me like they are describing sarcasm, not irony.

Sarcasm is generally characterized as having a more hostile or hurtful tone, where the tone of irony is more neutral. They are very similar things, however.

Also, no one has mentioned the best kind of irony-DRRRRRRRAMATIC irony!

[Porthos]

The song is called Ironic because it's ironic that a song so named has no actual irony in it at all. Straight from the horse's mouth. (Or Alanis Morrisette, as it were)

I'll take your word for it. Suffice to say I ain't exactly a fan of Alanis (personal reasons that I shant get into here) and so I can honestly say that I never really looked into the whole thing.

Tho for the curious (i.e not me ) here's the Wiki entry on the song:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song)

[Conuly]

The song is called Ironic because it's ironic that a song so named has no actual irony in it at all. Straight from the horse's mouth. (Or Alanis Morrisette, as it were)

I always figured that she made that "fact" up after she started getting flak for not being as ironic as she thought.

[sam79]

I still like Terry Pratchett's

"It's like goldy and bronzy, only its made of iron."

PEDANT ALERT.

I think that this is a Blackadder quote (though do visit Pratchett for much employment of irony).

Well, to be even MORE pedantic, it is a Baldrick quote. He says it to Blackadder in fact, when asked if he knows what irony is. And, clearly, he does.