Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    Please give me any feedback you can on this PrC I've designed for a race I've created modeled on the Fremen from Dune. Essentially, the race gets bonuses to dex and base speed and favors mobile, wilderness-based classes like scout. More racial information can be provided on request.

    Fell Raiders of the Gunchadh
    “When will those silly people learn that every patch of sand can be deadly?”
    - Prakash, a Fell Raider of the Gunchadh

    Years of living in the deep deserts have made the Gunchadh extremely wary of outsiders. They jealously guard their secrets, and few are the people who have seen their strongholds and lived to tell about it. However, sometimes circumstances require the Gunchadh to venture out from their strongholds and take up arms against their enemies. During these raids, the Fell Raiders form the elite units in raiding parties, conducting minor raids long before the rest of the Gunchadh are in position and mowing down their (often surprised) opponents in a flurry of slashes.

    Requirements
    - Race: Gūnchadh
    - Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Tumble 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks
    - Feats: Weapon Focus (kukri), Two-Weapon Fighting, Dodge
    - Special: Skirmish (+2d6, +1 AC)

    Class Features

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Flawless Stride, Surprise from the Sand, Resignation
    2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Skirmish (+3d6, +1 AC), Two as One
    3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Fanaticism +1, Camouflage
    4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Skirmish (+3d6, +2 AC)
    5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Death from the Sand
    6 +6/+1 +2 +5 +2 Skirmish (+4d6, +2 AC)
    7 +7/+2 +2 +5 +2 Weapon Specialization (Kukri), Improved Uncanny Dodge
    8 +8/+3 +2 +6 +2 Fanaticism +2, Skirmish (+4d6, +3 AC)
    9 +9/+4 +3 +6 +3 Hide in Plain Sight
    10 +10/+5 +3 +7 +3 Skirmish (+5d6, +3 AC), Improved Evasion

    - Fell Raiders gain no weapon or armor proficiencies
    - Flawless Stride – See Scout Description (Complete Adventurer, p. 13)
    - Surprise from the Sand – When in sandy terrain, an unobserved Fell Raider can take 20 on hide checks, essentially burying him/herself under a thin layer of sand. Such an attempt takes 5 minutes to complete, but can be done in half the time with the hide check being reduced by one half. While buried in sand, the Fell Raider cannot move but remains aware of his surroundings and can make spot and listen checks as normal. Emerging from the sand is a move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Additionally, emerging from the sand can be done as part of a charge action, but takes up ½ of the total movement distance allowed by the charge. Thus, a Fell Raider with a base speed of 50 ft can emerge from the sand and charge any opponent within 50 feet.
    - Resignation – During their induction, Fell Raiders ritually conduct their own funerals. This resignation to death gives them a +2 moral bonus on saves against fear effects.
    - Two as One – A Fell Raider of second level who wields a kukri in each hand can make a single attack with both weapons as a standard action. These attacks take the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons. The Fell Raider makes a separate attack roll for each attack, and can apply precision-based damage (skirmish, sneak attack, etc) to both attacks. The Fell Raider can use this ability only when unarmored or wearing light armor and wielding a kukri in each hand.
    - Fanaticism – At 3rd level, a Fell Raider gains a +1 bonus to will saves. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level.
    - Death from the Sand – At 5th level, a Fell Raider charging a flat-footed opponent may make a full attack at the end of the charge.

    Yeah, so that's the relevant data. Sorry about the messiness of the table. I can never get the table function here to work correctly. Anyways, any comments or suggestions you have would be welcome. Any balance issues? Flavor issues? Ideas for cool class features? Let me know!
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    DarkLight140's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Deep within my thoughts.

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    Well, only the Scout can access this class, making it essentially an alternate Scout progression. Is this intentional?

    Aside from that... I'll get back to you.
    "...it's the principle, dammit...these guys should be living, breathing cannon fodder, not just collections of numbers!"

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    NY

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    - Two as One – A Fell Raider of second level who wields a kukri in each hand can make a single attack with both weapons as a standard action. These attacks take the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons. The Fell Raider makes a separate attack roll for each attack, and can apply precision-based damage (skirmish, sneak attack, etc) to both attacks. The Fell Raider can use this ability only when unarmored or wearing light armor and wielding a kukri in each hand.
    I'm confused... how is this a good ability? A TWF style rogue can use sneak attack damage with both weapons normally. Doesn't all this feat do is reduce the number of attacks with the primary weapon to one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Randel View Post
    How about the fact that humans can apparently breed with anything on two legs (or even four legs if you count dragons)?

    Human: Hey elf, you look like a girl.
    Elf: To a human, everything must look like a girl.
    Human: What?
    Elf: Half-orcs, half-ogres...
    Human: ... shut up.
    Dwarf: Half-dragons, half-kobolds.
    Human: I said shut up!
    Elf: ...
    Dwarf: ...
    Human: ...
    Elf: Centaurs.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    A few notes:
    Two as One is more powerful than the 9th level class feature of the Iaijutsu Master PrC (which is considered absurdly overpowerful), which lets you make two attacks with a katana as a standard action (the second at -5, as a standard 2nd attack).
    Your version has no penalty to the attack roll for the second attack, and is available at level 7 (when this PrC should be getting it's second BAB attack for the first time), while the Iaijutsu master gets it at a minimum of 16th level. (7th level to start the class, 9th in the PrC to get the ability).
    This PrC gives Improved Evasion and Improved Uncanny Dodge, without giving or needing Evasion or Uncanny Dodge as class features.

    As I don't have Complete Adventurer, I can't compare this with the scout, but it looks powerful. Very powerful.

    I would advise the following:
    Dropping Fanaticism, and instead make Resignation get more powerful over class levels until they get immunity to feat effects at 10th level.
    Giving the entire Weapon Specialization tree available to the class to pick up as feats - not as bonus feats.
    Making it so Camoflage and Hide in Plain Sight only works in Arid terrian - ie. Deserts.
    Possibly drop the BAB to 3/4 - it's a scout class, and from memory, the scout get 3/4 BAB.
    Making 'Two as One' have the second attack at a -5.

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Skirmish (+1), Resignation +2
    2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Flawless Stride, Suprise from the Sand
    3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Resignation +3, Weapon Specialization (Kukri)
    4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Skirmish (+2), Uncanny Dodge
    5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Camoflage, Resignation +4
    6 +6/+1 +2 +5 +2 Greater Weapon Focus (Kukri)
    7 +7/+2 +2 +5 +2 Skirmish (+3), Resignation +5, Death from the Sand
    8 +8/+3 +2 +6 +2 Two as One, Evasion
    9 +9/+4 +3 +6 +3 Hide in Plain Sight, Greater Weapon Specialization (Kukri), Resignation +6
    10 +10/+5 +3 +7 +3 Skirmish (+4), Improved Evasion, Total Resignation.

    Let's review what this class gets: Full BAB. Full attack on a charge (if they're denied their DEX). Hide in plain sight. Greater Weapon Specialization. Two attacks as a standard attack. Skirmish bonuses.
    So it's a ranger/scout mix. With maxxed out Hide skills, you could technically just attack them time after time with a full attack, and then hide again, without needing any sort of time or cover.
    It's very powerful.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Canada

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    Two as One is ok. A katana deals 1d10 damage and adds 1.5x STR (and 2x PA). The two kukris need to be dual-wielded (TWF required or big penalties), deal 1d4 damage each, add 1.0x and 0.5x STR respectively, and have no benefit from PA (light weapons). In any case both attacks suffer at least a -2 due to TWF penalties.

    So is taking full attack on a charge vs a flat-footed opponent. Note that just because the attacker hides the target does not become flat-footed. They are only flat-footed before they first act in an encounter. Also, note the Snow Tiger Berserker feat allows anyone with the ability to rage, region: Rashemen and Dex 13 to take full attacks on every charge (not just when the enemy is flat-footed).

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    Thanks everyone for the comments. I really appreciate the feedback.

    DarkLight:

    You're right. The quickest way into this class is straight scout. I'm currently playing a scout, and the lack of prestige classes is kinda frustrating me. Plus, the favored class of my race is scout, and the class fits how I imagine the Fedaykin. Maybe I'll drop a bit of the skirmish requirement to let multiclass rogues and rangers in as well.

    Dragonmuncher:

    The idea behind two as one is that scouts get bonuses to damage only after moving at least ten feet, essentially eliminating full attack as an option if you want your extra damage. Normally, if you take a move action, you can only attack with one weapon. Two in one allows a move action followed by an attack with both weapons, allowing the Fell Raider to up the damage output a little (although it still lags behind a rogue, who can dual wield and make full attacks while flanking). If the Fell Raider decides to make a full attack, he/she can still attack as many times as his/her BAB allows.

    Wih:

    You raise a couple of issues. I hope you don't mind if I respond in list form.
    1. Base Attack Bonus - You're right about the BAB. It should be dropped down to 3/4 to match with the original class.

    2. Two in One - You argue that it's overpowered because it is similar to a feature of the Iaijutsu Master PrC, which comes later in the progression and is considered overpowered. I'm not familiar with this PrC, but I am currently playing a scout who has the ability to attack with two weapons as a standard action (yay house rules!). I've found that, while he can do substantial damage with skirmish, the penalties for two-weapon fighting are pretty steep and the damage output isn't unbalanced. Perhaps I just need to work on min/maxing, but it doesn't seem to be overpowered.

    3. Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge - as written, you have to be at least 5th level scout to gain access to this class. By this time, scouts have both uncanny dodge and evasion. I may change the class to make it available to more classes, and if I do, I'll drop these features.

    4. Fanaticism/Resignation - I really like your idea there. Thanks for the suggestion.

    5. Weapon Focus/Specialization - To be perfectly honest, I kinda just threw weapon specialization in there because I wanted another ability. In retrospect, it was a bad idea. I think I'm going to drop it out entirely in favor of some more movement-based abilities, possibly working up to spring attack at 10th level (similar to the Tempest PrC).

    6. Camouflage/Hide in Plain Sight - Another good idea here. Consider it altered.

    7. Skirmish Progression - I intentionally altered the progression of skirmish to up the damage at the expense of the AC bonus. I'd like skirmish to progress at the same rate as the base class. Otherwise, your modified progression looks pretty good.

    Ayana:

    Thanks for the clarification. I based the class feature on the "Catfolk Pounce" feat from RotW, which specifies a flat-footed opponent. Plus, this dovetails nicely with the Surprise from the Sand feature, and the tactics the Fremen exhibit in Dune.

    Anyone else, comments, concerns, rants, raves, etc.

    Also, I'll hopefully be able to post an updated version this evening and, as always, I'd love some more feedback,
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    USA

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    Two as One - basically, you're giving them a modified version of the Dual Strike feat (also in Complete Adventurer) that allows precision damage on both weapons (as opposed to only the first) as well as seperate attack rolls (w/ appropriate penalties) instead of one roll for both.

    Since you limit it to light/no armor and kukri's only, it makes it a fair trade off and keeps the balance fair.

    I say, leave it as is.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    OK everyone who's interested, here's an update. The new version is more movement-based and environment specific.

    As always, I'd appreciate any feedback you have

    Requirements
    - Race: Gunchadh
    - Base Attack Bonus: +4
    - Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Tumble 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks
    - Feats: Weapon Focus (kukri), Two-Weapon Fighting, Dodge
    - Special: Skirmish (+1d6)

    Class Features

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
    1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Flawless Stride, Resignation +2
    2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Skirmish (+2d6), Camouflage
    3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Surprise from the Sand, Two as One
    4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Skirmish (+2d6, +1AC), Uncanny Dodge
    5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Mobility, Resignation +4
    6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Skirmish (+3d6, +1 AC), Fast Acrobatics
    7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Death from the Sand
    8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Skirmish (+3d6, +2 AC), Evasion
    9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Hide in Plain Sight, Resignation (immune)
    10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Skirmish (+4d6, +2 AC), Spring Attack

    - Fell Raiders gain no weapon or armor proficiencies
    - Flawless Stride – See Scout Description (Complete Adventurer, p. 13)
    - Resignation – During their induction, Fell Raiders ritually conduct their own funerals. This resignation to death gives them a +2 moral bonus on saves against fear effects. This bonus increases to +4 at 5th level and full immunity at 9th level.
    - Camouflage – As the Ranger special ability, except Fell Raiders are only able to use this ability in arid terrain.
    - Surprise from the Sand – When in arid terrain, an unobserved Fell Raider can take 20 on hide checks, essentially burying him/herself under a thin layer of sand. Such an attempt takes 5 minutes to complete, but can be done in half the time with the hide check being reduced by one half. While buried in sand, the Fell Raider cannot move but remains aware of his surroundings and can make spot and listen checks as normal. Emerging from the sand is a move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Additionally, emerging from the sand can be done as part of a charge action, but takes up ½ of the total movement distance allowed by the charge. Thus, a Fell Raider with a base speed of 50 ft can emerge from the sand and charge any opponent within 50 feet.
    - Two as One – A Fell Raider who wields a kukri in each hand can make a single attack with both weapons as a standard action. These attacks take the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons. The Fell Raider makes a separate attack roll for each attack, and can apply precision-based damage (skirmish, sneak attack, etc) to both attacks. The Fell Raider can use this ability only when unarmored or wearing light armor and wielding a kukri in each hand.
    - Uncanny Dodge – As the Rogue special ability. If a character already has Uncanny Dodge, he/she gets Improved Uncanny Dodge instead.
    - Fast Acrobatics – Beginning at 6th level, a Fell Raider can tumble his/her full speed at only a -5 penalty instead of -10. Additionally, the Fell Raider can use the accelerated forms of climb and balance at no penalty. These bonuses apply only in arid terrain and related locations (dungeons in the desert, etc).
    - Death from the Sand – At 7th level, a Fell Raider charging a flat-footed opponent may make a full attack at the end of the charge.
    - Evasion – As the Rogue special ability. If a character already has Evasion, he/she gets Improved Evasion instead.
    - Hide in Plain Sight – As the Ranger special ability, except Fell Raiders are only able to use this ability in arid terrain.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location

    Default Re: Fedaykin-esque Prestige Class

    I still think having a character who can do the same thing as their full attack as a standard action is broken.
    Sure, they have to use kukris (but with the kukri abilities they already have, they'd be using them anyway), and they'd take a -2 penalty (but they'd do that anyway too, for an extra attack), but being able to move your standard movement and then attack multiple times is not what most classes can do at level 8.
    IMHO, give them Two as One when they would normally get their third attack off BAB. That's slightly more balanced then when they'd get their second.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •