Portable holes

[BigPapaSmurf]

What do you think of a round shield which has a portable hole stretched over it's surface, it seems like it could be used to great advantage...DMs how would you end this practice disastrouly?

[Flickerdart]

Sunder the shield? Send Rogues to steal it in the night? Have an enemy toss in a Bag of Holding?

[EleventhHour]

An enemy could throw a bag of holding?

There could be a NINJA ATTACK. Hmph.

[subject42]

I would throw a grappling hook into the hole and tie the other end to a scared horse.

[Mando Knight]

The hole creates a 6' deep hole in the entire shield. Shield and hole cease to exist.


...Oops.

[Curmudgeon]

What size character are you using that would have a 6' diameter shield? I think Huge is the minimum. Remember, you need to open the Portable Hole fully to access the extradimensional space.

[subject42]

What size character are you using that would have a 6' diameter shield? I think Huge is the minimum. Remember, you need to open the Portable Hole fully to access the extradimensional space.

How big are tower shields?

[Fixer]

Generally not larger than 6'x4'.

[Flickerdart]

You could wield a Large Tower Shield, and suck up the nonproficiency penalty. But...why? You gain nothing from this tactic.

[subject42]

You could wield a Large Tower Shield, and suck up the nonproficiency penalty. But...why? You gain nothing from this tactic.

I could see improved overrun + falling on your face to trap your target inside the hole as being a fun tactic.

[Yuki Akuma]

What kind of person carries a flat shield?

[Random832]

Incidentally... does a portable hole have to be spread on a flat surface, or can it be stretched on a frame? RAW it says spread on a surface, but that could be using the mathematical definition of "surface".

[Yuki Akuma]

Incidentally... does a portable hole have to be spread on a flat surface, or can it be stretched on a frame? RAW it says spread on a surface, but that could be using the mathematical definition of "surface".

...Why would rules text use the mathematical definition of "surface"?

Come on, man. Rules are meant to be in plain, understandable prose. You don't want to randomly throw in technical terms that no one is going to understand.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

What do you think of a round shield which has a portable hole stretched over it's surface, it seems like it could be used to great advantage...DMs how would you end this practice disastrouly?

Well other than the disaster of someone throwing a bag of holding at the portable hole, I assume you mean that you want to stop the "great advantage" of using this offensively to trap an enemy.

The first issue is how to set the portable hole so that the enemy gets trapped. Imagine the portable hole was opened immediately under the opponent's feet. Then it's like a trap door and you allow an opponent a reflex save (say DC 15 to avoid). If the hole is open on a vertical surface, then you should at least give the same reflex save, no?

Now a "black hole" over a vertical shield is going to look strange and mid to upper level characters might actually be weary of it. They may actually change their tactics when faced the strange thing. But let's assume they don't. Since this is a vertically oriented surface, no one is going to "fall" into it. So perhaps you have to bull rush or overun your opponent or bash him with a charge.

Then the question is how to trap the person inside? The owner has to close the trap. I would say this is not an automatic action and should allow the person inside another chance to escape, say another reflex save.

So, at best, first you have to make a successful attack with the shield, that gives the opponent a reflex save. Then you have to drop the shield, and close it, giving the opponent another reflex save.

Then last, just how do you "stretch" a portable hole over a shield? Quick release velcro does not exist in the normal D&D universe. (There is no technical reason why velcro should not exist in the D&D universe. But the idea of dragons wearing velcro'ed fanny packs just does not sit right with me.) Nor does pressure sensitive adhesives like that found in "ouchless" bandages exist. (Or maybe it does and fighter barbarians tape themselves like NFL players). The vaguely medieval means would be some kind of "quick release" assembly like for a drum head but that would be a special modification to the magic item. Whatever means is used, it's just going to be...inelegant...or slapstick.

[erikun]

I will admit, I do not get the point. What is the worst it will normally do - a missed swing will go into the portable hole rather than clanging off the shield? It seems to serve the same propose.

In order to get someone inside, you'd need to push the shield over them. You'll probably leave the shield face-down on the ground to keep them "trapped", but doing so deprives you of a shield, only eliminates one enemy, and can't be used against creatures bigger than Large.

Oh, I could see it having uses - if you needed to kidnap the princess, you could trap her in the portable hole/shield, take off the cover so she can't get out, and AOE the guards without hurting her. I really can't think of another use beyond unwilling target removal, though.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

You'll probably leave the shield face-down on the ground to keep them "trapped", but doing so deprives you of a shield, only eliminates one enemy, and can't be used against creatures bigger than Large.

Just to nitpick...I would say it leaves the hole "open". That is unless you or someone thing is preventing, the trapped person can reach outside the hole and "lift" the hole to free himself. The only way to close the hole is to "fold the edges" so only the "reverse" side the cloth faces the "outside" world.

[Faleldir]

You're better off having two guys with Ring Gate shields.

[erikun]

You're going to push the whole world off your portable hole?

A bit more seriously, how deep is the hole? 10'? Unless you're a half-giant, you probably can't do that standing on the bottom. Meaning you'll need to climb up featureless walls to push the "top" off - arguably a DC 15 climb check, if not worse.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

You're going to push the whole world off your portable hole?

Yup. Exactly like I do when I jump

A bit more seriously, how deep is the hole? 10'? Unless you're a half-giant, you probably can't do that standing on the bottom. Meaning you'll need to climb up featureless walls to push the "top" off - arguably a DC 15 climb check, if not worse.

Well that assumes the nondimensional space has gravity of normal strength facing "down". I prefer to think of nondimensional spaces, like bags of holding and such, to have "Mary Poppins" gravity. If you put an object that fits inside, it fits inside and doesn't fall out and you don't have to worry about stacking problems. If you put a creature inside then it can get out unless you close it from the outside.

Happily the RAW is blank on what goes on inside nondimensional spaces. Perhaps some wizard is trying to figure out what goes on inside the "singularity" but we'll just have to agree to disagree on the RAI