How do levals of Swordsage and warblade stack?

[oxinabox]

I'm thinking of taking 1 lvl of swordsage then moving to a continued warblade progression.
cos at 1st lvl: (6+int mod)*6 skill points, and 6 maneuvers with 4 readied, and a stance.
what about the stacking of weapon focus with aptitude? eh, eh?

but warblade has a much better mechanic.

Even if they don't stack except for making prerequisites, its great.

this is jsut a theroreical gestalt character, the other side of the guestalt woulb be archivist.
for a game with will proable not be dnd, and wich will proable not be gestalt.

if it were a nongeshalt game then.
maybe a lvl of swordsage, a lvl of arcivist and then progression in that divise caster presige class (redone to use dark knowledge instead of turning attepts)
Or a lvl of swordsage, and then just continue with arcivist

[Salt_Crow]

A level of SS would not stack with Warblade levels, no. But 2 levels of SS would contribute 1 IL toward calculating the level of WB manoeuvres, as normal.

Also, the starting skill points of SS is largely considered a typo, even by people who believe in RAW.

[T.G. Oskar]

Well, a dip in Swordsage after a bunch of Warblade levels is best recommended for a Master of Nine build, given that you'll get a big bunch of maneuvers from virtually every single class.

However, you'd need a pretty decent Wis to pull off something decent with Swordsage, unless you're planning to remain always on armor heavier than light (that way you get the extra AC).

Skill points are 6+Int times four. No other class has that distinction, which makes it ridiculous even by RAW.

The Weapon Focus feat-equivalent granted by the Swordsage is kinda weak. You get a +1 to hit with a very limited amount of weapons, which you have to take very carefully. From those, only ONE of them would theoretically stack with Weapon Focus (though I doubt of this). Not surprising when both Warblade and Swordsage can hit for touch attacks with a single maneuver.

Also, I fail to see what you'd gain from Archivist aside from the spells. Sure, it reads from Int, and it can get a ridiculous list of spells, but Int doesn't benefit a Warblade as you may think, and it would be entirely pointless if you don't go Warblade in either case.

Finally, the Ruby Knight Vindicator requires you to have a Devoted Spirit maneuver, which neither Warblade nor Swordsage provide (and which would imply wasting a maneuver to get it), for half casting progression and replacing the best feature of the class for a sub-par ability.

For what it's worth, I'd rather say Swordsage 2/Warblade X/Cloistered Cleric X (which grants Knowledge Domain, which means all Knowledge skills thus allowing you access to Knowledge Devotion which is almost as good if not better than Dark Knowledge, plus a Lore skill that's never bad)/Ruby Knight 10. I'd say Warblade 4 and CC 4, so you can get essentially 5th level spells and 9th level maneuvers of Devoted Spirit, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon or White Raven which are not that bad, keyed off your Warblade recovery maneuver and IL. That way, you have to increase your Wis a bit, which means a bit more of AC and better Wis saves.

[Hunter Noventa]

Actually, I think the one level of SS is enough for one initiator level no matter what. The 2 class levels for one IL thing only applies to non-adept classes, to let anyone make use of the manuvers through feats.

Also, the manuvers gained from your level of SS would not stack with your level of Warblade, you'd haev two completely seperate manuver lists with different recovery mechanisms, much like if you took levels of Wizard and Sorcerer. The only stacking that occurs is that manuvers you gain on one list count as a prereq to gain further manuvers in the same school on either. i.e. if you took a Stone Dragon manuver as SS, you could learn a Stone Dragon manuver as a Warblade that required you to know a Stone Dragon manuver already, even without taking one as a Warblade.

[AmberVael]

Actually, I think the one level of SS is enough for one initiator level no matter what. The 2 class levels for one IL thing only applies to non-adept classes, to let anyone make use of the manuvers through feats.

No, the 1/2 IL rule applies to any other class but the class you are calculating IL for. It makes this very clear in the examples (It shows a Swordsage/Crusader multiclass. It does not have full IL). See the top right of page 39.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Actually, I think the one level of SS is enough for one initiator level no matter what. The 2 class levels for one IL thing only applies to non-adept classes, to let anyone make use of the manuvers through feats.

No, it applies to all classes; if you have levels in a martial adept class, and take levels in another class, 1/2 the second class's levels count toward the IL of your first class (and vice versa), no matter what classes they are. A warblade 6/swordsage 6, for instance, has IL 9 for both classes; swordsage only grants full IL to itself, not to warblade.

EDIT: Dammit, Vael! You don't look like a ninja....

[oxinabox]

However, you'd need a pretty decent Wis to pull off something decent with Swordsage, unless you're planning to remain always on armor heavier than light (that way you get the extra AC).

Archivist is an INT and WIS based caster.
wis=bonus spells.
int = spell save DC

Also, I fail to see what you'd gain from Archivist aside from the spells. Sure, it reads from Int, and it can get a ridiculous list of spells, but Int doesn't benefit a Warblade as you may think, and it would be entirely pointless if you don't go Warblade in either case.

I like archivists, it has the feel i'm going for (roguly an worshiper of knowledge as an ideal (this is for a play yourself campaign)
Dark Knowledge is cool, (although some house rules would render it useless, by giving it free to anyone basically).
Taking a lvl of swordsage (in a single class game), means i get martial proficency, 6 cool (if weak) maneuvers and one cool if weak stance.
So suddenly my character is much more interesting.

and also, one my iterative lvl is 3 so total of 1+2arcivist+1more sword sag4 wich i use to take Insightful strike.
I can then do Concentration for damage, as a caster my concentration is pumped so i can cast defensively.
or i can do this at 1 swordsage+4arcivist by the feet martiacl study. (assuming my dm lets me hold of on picking my 4th lvl feet til 5th lvl, which he might)
or if starting lvl is resonable high say 4 ,5 or 6+. i take the sword sage lvl at lvl 5 then and with my higher initiator can learn insightfull strike right away.

I am aware that Arcivist is a weaker version of cleric.
for many intents and purposes.
But arcivist CAN learn.
that is like a wizard archivist can turn money into power!
knowledge is power, power is money, money is knowledge

Finally, the Ruby Knight Vindicator requires you to have a Devoted Spirit maneuver, which neither Warblade nor Swordsage provide (and which would imply wasting a maneuver to get it), for half casting progression and replacing the best feature of the class for a sub-par ability.

is said i'ld ask the dm to refluff it mechanically.
run it of dark knowledge, and I also ment to say. diamondmind.
THat's what this is all about: dimondmind (i really should have mentioned that in OP).
I'm agaist this option now.

I've never see the sates for cloistered cleric. what book?

[Augmented Lurk]

I am aware that Arcivist is a weaker version of cleric

Wait, what? The Archivist is actually a bit stronger than the cleric. This is a class that can learn every single Cleric spell, domain spell, Druid spell, Adept spell, Shugenja spell, and possibly Bard spell (thanks to the Divine Bard variant).
Not to mention being able to stun enemies with no save. The only advantage a Cleric has is turn undead, which an Archivist can easily obtain by taking a level in Sacred Exorcist (which they can easily qualify for).

[AstralFire]

The Weapon Focus feat-equivalent granted by the Swordsage is kinda weak. You get a +1 to hit with a very limited amount of weapons, which you have to take very carefully. From those, only ONE of them would theoretically stack with Weapon Focus (though I doubt of this). Not surprising when both Warblade and Swordsage can hit for touch attacks with a single maneuver.

There's no way it stacks. Definitely not weak though - while it's not as useful as a Warblade's adaptability, it has its own points (you can pick up a wider variety of weapons and immediately use them, if your DM does a lot with random loot). I would also as a DM allow Adaptability to work with Swordsage Weapon Focus to switch which discipline is being used, though that is a houserule for sure.

[Draz74]

Wait, what? The Archivist is actually a bit stronger than the cleric. This is a class that can learn every single Cleric spell, domain spell, Druid spell, Adept spell, Shugenja spell, and possibly Bard spell (thanks to the Divine Bard variant).

You forgot every Ranger spell, every Paladin spell (and they have some really good exclusive ones), and (shudder) every Domain spell.

[oxinabox]

Wait, what? The Archivist is actually a bit stronger than the cleric. This is a class that can learn every single Cleric spell, domain spell, Druid spell, Adept spell, Shugenja spell, and possibly Bard spell (thanks to the Divine Bard variant).
Not to mention being able to stun enemies with no save. The only advantage a Cleric has is turn undead, which an Archivist can easily obtain by taking a level in Sacred Exorcist (which they can easily qualify for).

THat's what i thought made them great.
one the other hand...
no heavy armour, and i think no shields.
and on BaB poor rather than BaB average.
but who needs BaB when you can inflict serious wounds (and heal them) anyway?

I don't know why i said that...
I might.

ahh Domain spells.
If i were to be a cleric i want the force domain.
I iz teh Wizzard!
I magiks misslez at you!

[tyckspoon]

THat's what i thought made them great.
one the other hand...
no heavy armour, and i think no shields.
and on BaB poor rather than BaB average.
but who needs BaB when you can inflict serious wounds (and heal them) anyway? know Divine Power?

If you really want a shield, you can get one made of Darkwood or Mithral and have a 0-check penalty shield, which means it makes absolutely no difference whether or not you're actually proficient with it.