New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 51
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Mage Priest
    "No mortal can wield true power unaided." / "Watch as I wield blaster-master spells in the name of Pelor!" (take your pick)

    A Mage Priest is my attempt to replace the Mystic Theurge. The class features may be too powerful, but I was trying to make sure she could keep up without simply giving her "+2 levels of arcane spellcasting/+2 levels of divine spellcasting".

    To qualify to become a mage priest, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

    Skills
    Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks OR Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks

    Spells
    Able to cast both arcane and divine spells. No, invocations do not count as arcane spells for this purpose.

    Special
    Access to at least one clerical domain.
    Must have no levels in the Ur-Priest, Divine Crusader, or Apostle of Peace prestige classes.

    Class Skills

    The mage priestís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

    Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    Class Features
    All of the following are features of the Mage Priest prestige class.

    Hit Die
    d4

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Mage Priests gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Spells per Day
    When a new mage priest level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mage priest to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mage priest, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mage priest for the purpose of determining spells per day.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Mystic Theurgy (Heal or Inflict)|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Doublecast 1/day|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Armour Use (light)|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Mystic Theurgy (Power Equals Power)|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Doublecast 3/day|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Not a Dead Level|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Mystic Theurgy (Magic Equals Magic)|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Doublecast 5/day|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Armour Use (medium)|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Mystic Theurgy (Skill Equals Skill)|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Not a Dead Level|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    12th|
    +6
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Not a Dead Level|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    13th|
    +6
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Mystic Theurgy (Fuel Equals Fuel)|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    14th|
    +7
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Not a Dead Level|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

    15th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Sublime Doublecast|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/ +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class[/table]

    Mystic Theurgy: By wielding both arcane and divine power, a Mage Priest realises the inevitable similarities between the two energies, and can mix and match them in his spellcasting.

    Heal or Inflict: At 1st level, a Mage Priest may treat his arcane spell slots as divine spell slots for the purpose of a cleric's ability to spontaneously cast Cure or Inflict spells.

    Power Equals Power: At 4th level, if a Mage Priest is a specialist wizard, he may prepare domain spells in the bonus slots he gets for being a specialist wizard - even domain spells of a school which is forbidden to him. Otherwise, he gains a bonus arcane spell per day of every level, in which he can only prepare domain spells (even if he casts arcane spells spontaneously like a Sorcerer). In addition, a Mage Priest gains a holy school of arcane magic at 4th level; if he is a specialist wizard, this is the same as his specialist school, and if not, he may choose one. He may prepare arcane spells of his holy school in either his divine domain slot or his arcane domain slot. Regardless of the spell list a spell comes from, spells cast from arcane slots are arcane spells and spells cast from divine slots are divine spells.

    Magic Equals Magic: At 7th level, a Mage Priest gains access to the Magic domain even if his god cannot normally grant it. If he already has access to the Magic domain, he may choose another bonus domain.

    Skill Equals Skill: Well is it said that true power cannot be attained by mortals without divine aid. All spells cast by a Mage Priest of at least 10th level count as having a base caster level (before other features, like being a Wild Mage, adjust it) equal to the sum of all her arcane spellcasting class levels, all her divine spellcasting class levels, and all her Mage Priest class levels, minus one. So a 4 Wizard/1 Cleric/15 Mage Priest has a caster level of 19 with both arcane and divine spells, and not a caster level of 19 with arcane and 16 with divine as would otherwise be the case.

    Fuel Equals Fuel: Power equals power, and burning one kind of power can create another kind of power. At will, a Mage Priest of 13th level or higher may spontaneously apply one (and only one) metamagic feat to any spell she casts, as if she was a sorcerer, without increasing its spell level. To do this, she must 'lose' two spell slots (arcane or divine, prepared or otherwise) whose levels add up to twice the level the metamagic feat would adjust the spell by or more. For example, she could cast maximised cure critical wounds by sacrificing two 3rd level spell slots or one 1st level slot and one 6th level slot. She may not use this ability to cast spells that would normally be beyond her capability. For example, a Mage Priest that can cast 8th level spells would not be able to use Fuel Equals Fuel to maximize a 6th level spell because she can't usually cast a 9th level spell.

    Doublecast: A 2nd level or higher Mage Priest may, as a full-round action, cast an arcane spell and a divine spell in the same round, provided neither requires more than a full-round action to cast. However, she may not take any other action during this round - not even a 5-foot step or a quickened action. If a doublecast is interrupted, use only the higher spell level to determine the Concentration DC. If a Mage Priest fails the Concentration check to concentrate on a doublecast, both the spells he was trying to cast are wasted. A Mage Priest may doublecast once a day at 2nd level, 3 times a day at 5th level, and 5 times a day at 8th level.

    Armour Use: Mage Priests come to realise that arcane energy is not so very different from divine energy, and can be manipulated even in heavy armour. A 3rd level Mage Priest ignores arcane spell failure caused by light armour. A 6th level Mage Priest ignores arcane spell failure caused by medium armour.

    Not a Dead Level: You're getting spellcasting progression in two classes at once. Stop complaining.

    Sublime Doublecast: A 15th level Mage Priest may doublecast as a standard action, instead of a full round action, even if she would normally need a full-round action to cast one of the spells involved. She can't do this if she is spontaneously applying metamagic to either spell, and she still can't doublecast and use a quickened spell in the same turn, but she no longer suffers from the restriction on taking a 5' step or taking a move action.

    Ex-Mage Priests: A Mage Priest who loses her divine spellcasting power loses all Mystic Theurgy abilities, all Armour Use abilities, and her ability to doublecast. She may not take further levels in Mage Priest until she can cast divine spells again - whether by atoning, or by finding a new divine patron.
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-10-02 at 04:49 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    I would put the entry requirements back to what they were for the original Mystic Theurge. Dabblers in one path or the other should not be able to synthesize them.

    I believe ONE of the problems with the original Mystic Theurge is that it leaves you high and dry for levels 17-20. Yours has the same problem, except it isn't quite as severe since you can enter it with Wizard 3/Cleric 1 or Wizard 1/Cleric 3 as written (which I don't like), and the capstone also helps a lot. Basically, if you keep the current entry requirements, seriously consider extending it to 16 levels, even if levels 11-16 give no class abilities. Similarly, if you go back to the old entry requirements, it should be a 14 level class.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    deuxhero's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Fl

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    What would be different from takeing 6 levels of the existing Mystic Theurge to finish the last few levels instead of having 6 class featureless "mage priest" levels?
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2009-07-22 at 11:01 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    @DracoDei The biggest problem with Mystic Theurge is the requirement to sacrifice 3 caster levels, rather than only 2. The way I see it, they'd be either a wizard so devout as to dabble in divine magic or a priest with the smarts (or the draconic blood...) to dabble in arcane magic. I get where you're coming from with "should be equal to blur the line" but the fact is, once you've lost 2 caster levels, you are no stronger than your cohort; once you've lost 3, you are weaker than your cohort.

    And before you whine about 3 caster levels not being much: You aren't taking those 3 from a linear progression, you're taking them from the exponent of an exponential progression. It isn't the difference between 4 and 7, it's the difference between 2x2x2x2=16 and 2x2x2x2x2x2x2=128... well, slight exaggeration, but you get the picture. Maybe I should have used 1.5 instead of 2 as the base number...

    I agree about the high and dry problem, but there is the original Mystic Theurge to fill out remaining levels, and I'd need to think of 5 new class features to justify a 15-level Mage Priest. 6, if we wanted people to take this class to full term. Though that said, he could do with more class features - right now you're losing a caster level to have the spellcasting of a cohort 3 levels weaker than you, in addition to your actual cohort.

    Maybe a few bonus feats spread out along the class as it is, and Doublecast (at will) as a capstone?
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-07-22 at 11:39 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    zagan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    If you want more ability, I got one.

    A good name for that ability: Use you's character level as a caster level for determining spell duration, damage dealt and range.
    Latest homebrew: The Avatars of Magic, powerful monster each dedicated to ne school of magic.

    My homebrewer's Extended Signature
    My character :
    Spoiler
    Show

    Mirar, Bizarre human Focused Conjurer/Master specialist (summoning specialist)
    Xilef, shifter Druid 8//Barbarian 5/Weretouched master 3
    Other Character.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Banned
     
    Milskidasith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Couldn't you enter this at Wizard1/Cleric1 now, because of the fact that you could cast one second level spell with precocious apprentice?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Couldn't you enter this at Wizard1/Cleric1 now, because of the fact that you could cast one second level spell with precocious apprentice?
    I don't know what exploit that is, but if you could, that's a good thing. It means you can have both arcane and divine spellcasting of a level appropriate kind without being weaker than your cohort in either.
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-07-22 at 12:03 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    The Rose Dragon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    I don't know what exploit that is, but if you could, that's a good thing. It means you can have both arcane and divine spellcasting of a level appropriate kind without being weaker than your cohort in either.
    But it breaks every single PrC design principle WotC has set. No one enters a PrC before level 6.

    I think there are two exceptions, but both are specifically designed to lead to other PrCs.
    I use black for sarcasm.


    Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.

    If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    AgentPaper's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Might be better to still require level 2 spells from divine and arcane, but then to give back 2 spell levels over the course of the PrC. Then, also make it a 14-level PrC, or even better make a few 4-level PrCs that do the same thing but with slightly different flavor for each.
    Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    AstralFire's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Instead of using the spell level requirement which heartily screws with Warlocks, Sorcerers, Favored Souls and Shugenja while allowing the feat exploit, I would go with 'Arcane or Divine Caster level 5th', counting invocations as spells, and 'ability to cast both Arcane and Divine spells of 1st level or higher'.

    This allows you to prevent getting screwed in the early levels of development, as I see Rose Dragon's point and your own.

    However, I think this really illustrates one of the many weaknesses of 3.x design, and you've got the material here to simply make a base class which can be better balanced and allow for a more consistent level of power. I feel that the 'hybridizing prestige classes' have always been stopgap measures at best. The only ones which seem to work well IMO are those for ToB, namely because non-martial levels still improve your ToB abilities somewhat.
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2009-07-22 at 12:27 PM.


    a steampunk fantasy ♦ the novelthe albumthe campaign setting

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Banned
     
    Milskidasith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Yeah, the "fifth level caster" in one class and able to cast both spells would be a good way of setting this up; and then you would have some decent spells from one class and only one caster level lost in the other.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    AgentPaper's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    I should mention that, in the case of a wizard/cleric combo, at least, you need to lose at least 2 caster levels. Even losing those two levels, you end up with 4 level 9 spells, the same as a straight caster. You also have about twice as many spells in your lower slots. However, you do have to wait 2 levels longer to get to those high level spells, and can't take any special PrCs, so it's probably balanced.
    Excellent avatar by Elder Tsofu.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    Instead of using the spell level requirement which heartily screws with Warlocks, Sorcerers, Favored Souls and Shugenja while allowing the feat exploit, I would go with 'Arcane or Divine Caster level 5th', counting invocations as spells, and 'ability to cast both Arcane and Divine spells of 1st level or higher'.
    I'm not worried in the slightest about screwing over Favoured Souls and Shugenja with the spell level requirement, because they're already screwed over by the fact you need domains. This is called Mage Priest for a reason; I want it to be clerics only, because I couldn't think of many decent class features without using domains. Sorcerers, meanwhile, are not entirely screwed over as they can go Cleric 3/Sorcerer 1/Mage Priest X.

    I'll be making a similar thingy - I dunno, "Favoured Arcanist" or "Holy Mage" or something - which has Shugenjas & Favoured Souls in mind.

    Warlocks are not a real arcane spellcasting class, and cannot keep up with the power stakes if they aren't gaining martial capabilities as well as invoking. I don't honestly think Warlock/Cleric/Mage Priest is even remotely worth considering. Maybe Warlock would suck less if it had invocations that actually matter when spammed, or an Eldritch Blast that could keep up with a martial archer, but that's for another thread (and the Spherelock's already been made).

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    However, I think this really illustrates one of the many weaknesses of 3.x design, and you've got the material here to simply make a base class which can be better balanced and allow for a more consistent level of power. I feel that the 'hybridizing prestige classes' have always been stopgap measures at best. The only ones which seem to work well IMO are those for ToB, namely because non-martial levels still improve your ToB abilities somewhat.
    Point, set, and match. I just think making the Mage Priest base class is a little too much bookkeeping with two separate spellcasting tables.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    But it breaks every single PrC design principle WotC has set. No one enters a PrC before level 6.

    I think there are two exceptions, but both are specifically designed to lead to other PrCs.
    I don't particularly care what WotC thinks PrCs should do, they have messed up so many times it's not even all that funny anymore. That said, I have gone back and edited so you need caster level 3rd - you canna enter this PrC before level 4 at least.
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-07-22 at 01:04 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Warlocks are not a real arcane spellcasting class, and cannot keep up with the power stakes if they aren't gaining martial capabilities as well as invoking. I don't honestly think Warlock/Cleric/Mage Priest is even remotely worth considering. Maybe Warlock would suck less if it had invocations that actually matter when spammed, or an Eldritch Blast that could keep up with a martial archer, but that's for another thread (and the Spherelock's already been made).
    Also, the warlock already has the Eldritch Disciple and Eldritch Theurge, which grant abilities that actually interact with invocations, so there's no reason to include the warlock here.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    AstralFire's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Point, set, and match. I just think making the Mage Priest base class is a little too much bookkeeping with two separate spellcasting tables.
    I'd be interested to see your take on it if you do. While I am not the world's biggest fan of prepared spell casters, I think your class features are a good look at how to make a utility caster with ridiculous amounts of slots that is not inferior in every important way to a full caster.

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Also, the warlock already has the Eldritch Disciple and Eldritch Theurge, which grant abilities that actually interact with invocations, so there's no reason to include the warlock here.
    I like throwing multiple weak classes a bone whenever possible, even if it's not much of one. That's just me. :)
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2009-07-22 at 01:50 PM.


    a steampunk fantasy ♦ the novelthe albumthe campaign setting

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mulletmanalive's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    WOTC ≱ my opinion

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    I always thought the point of the hybrid classes was to allow players who wanted to do everything to be able to do everything without making them significantly more powerful than their allies.

    Coming from a 2nd ed background, Mystic Theurge has never seemed like a particularly underpowered option. I like the doublecast feature, though i'm somewhat dubious of the idea of using mystic slots to prepare arcane spells and vice versa. I can't imagine most deities being too happy about that.

    I'd've thought that extending the Mystic Theurge to level 20 and maybe adding some abilities that increased their caster level every now and again would have been sufficient. Of course, Doublecast is sweet so i'd want that still in there too; the idea of a guy kneeling beside a wounded comrade firing lightning from one hand and defibrilating the casualty with the other is too good to miss.

    As a further note, Arcane Theurgy is actually a double negative; Theurgy is a magical practice that is intended to elevate you to Godhood through esoteric means. It's the 'Mystic' part of the name that refers to Divinity. Incidentally, the original class would be better named Mystic Thaumaturgist but still.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Coming from a 2nd ed background, Mystic Theurge has never seemed like a particularly underpowered option. I like the doublecast feature, though i'm somewhat dubious of the idea of using mystic slots to prepare arcane spells and vice versa. I can't imagine most deities being too happy about that.
    I fail to see the problem Power equals power, arcane or divine, and if it's wielded in a god's name, they should support it. It just struck me as a sweet capstone that wasn't too overpowered as they're only getting a ludicrous number of lower level spell slots from it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    I'd've thought that extending the Mystic Theurge to level 20 and maybe adding some abilities that increased their caster level every now and again would have been sufficient. Of course, Doublecast is sweet so i'd want that still in there too; the idea of a guy kneeling beside a wounded comrade firing lightning from one hand and defibrilating the casualty with the other is too good to miss.
    The big problem with MT is its entry requirements, which Mage Priest fixes somewhat. Hate to repeat myself, but giving up 3 caster levels isn't the difference between 4 and 7, it's the difference between N to the power 4 and N to the power 7, where N is whichever arbitrary number makes this metaphor most accurate to D&D mechanics.

    I might make Mage Priest a 15-level PrC after tweaking the requirements to "Must already be 5th level" types and staggering the class features. In fact I considered adding the following feature to some levels:
    Totally Not a Dead Level
    Sure you aren't getting any class features, but you're getting your spellcasting advanced in both an arcane and a divine class. Stop complaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    As a further note, Arcane Theurgy is actually a double negative; Theurgy is a magical practice that is intended to elevate you to Godhood through esoteric means. It's the 'Mystic' part of the name that refers to Divinity. Incidentally, the original class would be better named Mystic Thaumaturgist but still.
    This is the Homebrewing forum. I'm sure Rich will make us a Semantics forum if you ask him nicely enough.

    EDIT: Seriously tweaked Mage Priest, it is now a 15-level PrC which gets all would-be users to 20th level.
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-07-22 at 04:20 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Banned
     
    Milskidasith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    You might want to change the wording on True Spellcasting Power; at the moment, it makes caster level increases from items totally useless, and is thus actually a negative trait.

    It should say something like "the minimum caster level for all spells cast by a Mage Priest is, at minimum, equal to his character level. If it is higher than his character level, do not decrease it."

    You also might want to change the wording on it so that you can't get caster levels by taking levels in martial classes; maybe it's just late and I'm forgetting something, but after you have ninth level slots in both your divine class and your arcane class, along with an ability that gives you caster levels in both, I don't see the point in taking mage levels when you get the primary benefits of them while taking levels in something with D12 hit dice.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-07-23 at 02:01 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    You might want to change the wording on True Spellcasting Power; at the moment, it makes caster level increases totally useless, and is thus actually a negative trait.

    It should say something like "the minimum caster level for all spells cast by a Mage Priest is, at minimum, equal to his character level. If it is higher than his character level, do not decrease it."
    Hadn't thought about that - but seriously, under what circumstances is your basic caster level higher than your character level anyway? The exact words can be used to screw Wild Magi, I know, but other than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    You also might want to change the wording on it so that you can't get caster levels by taking levels in martial classes; maybe it's just late and I'm forgetting something, but after you have ninth level slots in both your divine class and your arcane class, along with an ability that gives you caster levels in both, I don't see the point in taking mage levels when you get the primary benefits of them while taking levels in something with D12 hit dice.
    Caster levels aren't spells known levels. Martial classes won't give you extra spells. And you can't reach 15 Mage Priest before character level 20, and 15 Mage Priest gives Doublecast At Will. If your DM isnt' throwing enough encounters at you to make Doublecast At Will worthwhile, he's doing it wrong.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PId6's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Okay, I don't say this often, but here it is: this class is waaaaaay too strong.

    Why would any wizard or cleric NOT take this class? You get full caster level in both classes, and the ability to cast two spells per round before quicken at-will? Add Armor Use, an ability that makes divine metamagic cry cheese, and the completely unnecessary ability to put any of his spells into whatever slot available? This class puts Incantatrix to shame.

    If you want it to be balanced, you're going to have to make quite a few changes. Doublecast is an amazing ability, and at most, it should be 5/day. True Spellcasting Power should not be, while Armor Use should be nerfed so that you get medium armor at most (leaves some use for Battle Caster and it's still not nerfing that much since you'll probably want mithril armor anyway). Power Equals Power is just terrible. It basically destroys any meaning for the limits on an ability like Doublecast and Metamagic Fuel and it effectively doubles your potential spell slots for both classes. Please, no.

    Finally, Metamagic Fuel is just too abusable. You can already have Divine Metamagic, don't make it even worse. Persistent Time Stop? Easy. Twinned Disjunction? No problem. You should at least limit the maximum level of the metamagic'd spell to a level you can actually cast. For example, a wizard that can cast 8th level spells would be able to use Metamagic Fuel to maximize a 5th level spell, since he can normally cast an 8th level spell. He can't maximize a 6th level spell using this because he can't usually cast a 9th level spell. It'd at least put some limits on the ability.

    All of these incredibly strong abilities put together make for one completely broken class.
    Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
    Potpourri Creation Contest II Winner: Desert Martial Adept Substitution Levels
    Potpourri Creation Contest III Best Characterization: Edward the Sly's Lucky Spells
    Prestige Class Contest XXI Submission: Child of the Seelie Court

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    AstralFire's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Just at a quick glance, I'm going to mention that my idea that entry should be based on caster level was predicated partially on the class remaining a 10 level class. I'm not sure how I feel about it being 15 levels.


    a steampunk fantasy ♦ the novelthe albumthe campaign setting

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Finally, someone comments on the class features...

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6
    Why would any wizard or cleric NOT take this class? You get full caster level in both classes, and the ability to cast two spells per round before quicken at-will? Add Armor Use, an ability that makes divine metamagic cry cheese, and the completely unnecessary ability to put any of his spells into whatever slot available? This class puts Incantatrix to shame.
    I was getting a little thin on class feature ideas, and I don't feel dead levels are excusable - not even in this class. As for why any wizard or cleric wouldn't take this class? You're losing a whole caster level to have spellcasting ability weaker than your cohort. As well ask why any wizard or cleric wouldn't take the Leadership feat to just have a cohort - which gives them better than Doublecast, too, because you can't distract two people as easily as one person.

    EDIT: Also, maybe you're misreading Doublecast - it's a full-round action, so you can't get any quickened spells in while doublecasting.

    If you want it to be balanced, you're going to have to make quite a few changes. Doublecast is an amazing ability, and at most, it should be 5/day.
    The Leadership feat lets you doublecast - you cast a spell, then your cohort casts a spell. I appreciate it can be abused with Power equals Power, so I'll go rewrite it so you can't use two Sorcerer/Wizard spells in one round.

    True Spellcasting Power should not be
    Why?

    while Armor Use should be nerfed so that you get medium armor at most (leaves some use for Battle Caster and it's still not nerfing that much since you'll probably want mithril armor anyway).
    Granted. Please suggest a class feature I should give instead of Armour Use (heavy) because I'm not giving Mage Priest a single dead level. Not. One.

    Power Equals Power is just terrible. It basically destroys any meaning for the limits on an ability like Doublecast and Metamagic Fuel and it effectively doubles your potential spell slots for both classes. Please, no.
    It doesn't do anything to Metamagic Fuel actually, and yes, it is a little too powerful with Doublecast. I'll change it so you can only prepare one arcane spell of each divine spell level and one divine spell of each arcane spell level, will that make it a little less broken?

    Finally, Metamagic Fuel is just too abusable. You can already have Divine Metamagic, don't make it even worse.
    Read a little more carefully. It does have its limits - you can only Metamagic Fuel one feat per spell cast, and you are still limited by what spell level you could normally cast.

    Or you could suggest a replacement class feature. Or you could assume that Divine Metamagic is forever banned like the crapsack it is, or else is limited in the same way as Metamagic Fuel.

    Persistent Time Stop? Easy.
    Persistent Time Stop? Completely impossible before Epic, whereupon I stop caring. Persistent Time Stop in a 9th level slot? Easy... but you have to already have a 15th level slot, so you're probably really broken anyway.

    Twinned Disjunction? No problem.
    See above.

    You should at least limit the maximum level of the metamagic'd spell to a level you can actually cast.
    I already did, if I recall right.

    For example, a wizard that can cast 8th level spells would be able to use Metamagic Fuel to maximize a 5th level spell, since he can normally cast an 8th level spell. He can't maximize a 6th level spell using this because he can't usually cast a 9th level spell. It'd at least put some limits on the ability.
    Metamagic Fuel: At will, a Mage Priest may spontaneously apply one (and only one) metamagic feat to any spell she casts, as if she was a sorcerer, without increasing its spell level. To do this, she must 'lose' a spell slot (arcane or divine, prepared or otherwise) of a level equal to the level the metamagic feat would adjust the spell by. For example, she could cast maximised cure critical wounds by sacrificing a 3rd level spell slot. She may not use this ability to cast spells that would normally be beyond her capability, like a maximized mass cure critical wounds pre-Epic.
    However, thanks for the better written example, I will copy/paste it into the Mage Priest and Chosen Sorcerer.
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-07-23 at 04:59 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    Just at a quick glance, I'm going to mention that my idea that entry should be based on caster level was predicated partially on the class remaining a 10 level class. I'm not sure how I feel about it being 15 levels.
    It is a bit of a dodgy retrofit, and I was hoping for criticism so I can crowbar this class into Not Broken Land. However, this way it doesn't leave you high and dry at level 15 or so.
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-07-23 at 04:59 AM.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PId6's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Read a little more carefully. It does have its limits - you can only Metamagic Fuel one feat per spell cast, and you are still limited by what spell level you could normally cast.
    Bah, completely missed that part; speed reading can be a curse sometimes. It's good, but not broken. However, the other features still are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    I was getting a little thin on class feature ideas, and I don't feel dead levels are excusable - not even in this class.
    It's a dual progression class, not to mention spellcasting. The problem with dead levels has been that A. you wouldn't want to take that level, and B. you don't get anything special at those levels. However, it's not that big a deal with dual progression because A. nothing else offers the same thing so you're going to take the level anyway, and B. you already get spellcasting advancement, meaning new spells and new slots, so it's not like you're not getting anything new, and it's nothing at all like dead levels on a fighter or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    As for why any wizard or cleric wouldn't take this class? You're losing a whole caster level to have spellcasting ability weaker than your cohort.
    If you do a wizard 3/cleric 2/mage priest 15 build, the only thing you end up losing compared to a wizard 20 or cleric 20 is a few extra spell slots and some free wizard spells, due to your True Spellcasting Power resetting your caster level. Considering all you gain in exchange for 4-5 spell slots, it's way too good a deal. And that's not including Power Equals Power, which effectively doubles your spell slots, mitigating even that one drawback twice over.

    So, ignoring Power Equals Power, let's compare:

    Wizard 20: CL 20, 4/4/4 slots (7th/8th/9th), four bonus feats.
    Wiz 3/Clr 2/MP 15: CL 20 and 20, 3/3/2 wizard, 3/2/1 cleric, and all the extra stuff.

    After bonus spells, that's a lot more spell slots than a normal wizard 20. Sure, half of it can only use cleric spells, but cleric spells are hardly bad, and they improve your versatility by a lot. If you take away all the extra stuff, I'd consider this about even with a wizard 20, probably slightly better. With all the class features though, the scale is tipped and toppled. Reducing caster level is only the first step.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    As well ask why any wizard or cleric wouldn't take the Leadership feat to just have a cohort - which gives them better than Doublecast, too, because you can't distract two people as easily as one person.
    And why can't you take Leadership anyway even as a mage priest? Besides, Leadership is pretty broken in and of itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    EDIT: Also, maybe you're misreading Doublecast - it's a full-round action, so you can't get any quickened spells in while doublecasting.
    Quicken is a swift action. Full-round actions only take up your standard and move actions. So you can Doublecast two 9th level spells, then stack a 5th level spell on top of that, and then have your cohort cast another 9th level spell and a quickened 5th level one.

    (Note: Leadership cheese allows your cohort to take a cohort for more spells, and then continue stacking more cohorts, but I'll stop there.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Why?
    Since you're using a dual progression class, it should cost you something. Your caster level shouldn't be as high as a full wizard or cleric, otherwise this class just outshines the normal classes too much. A dual progression class should provide you with versatility at the cost of power; not versatility as well as the same casting ability as the original classes. It's not gestalt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Granted. Please suggest a class feature I should give instead of Armour Use (heavy) because I'm not giving Mage Priest a single dead level. Not. One.
    Read above on why dead levels aren't so bad on dual progression. If you're that dead set against dead levels, why not give some kind of fluff ability that make for nice filler without making things too good? The druid's Woodland Stride and Trackless Step abilities, for example, are nice and flavorful without affecting mechanics all that much. Some kind of bonus to Knowledge checks or maybe something involving merging your spellbook and holy symbol?

    Ultimately though, it's a bit unreasonable to try to get a special feature on EVERY level of a dual progression class, especially a 15 level one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    It doesn't do anything to Metamagic Fuel actually, and yes, it is a little too powerful with Doublecast. I'll change it so you can only prepare one arcane spell of each divine spell level and one divine spell of each arcane spell level, will that make it a little less broken?
    Nevermind, I thought it would work like the Ultimate Magus and require that you expend spell slots from the other side. Actually, the way it is now, I don't really understand what it has to do with a wizard/cleric. Such an ability seems much more fitting on a sorcerer or something. At least make it related to a dual progression class somehow, such as requiring slots from the other side.

    And yes, that is a lot less broken. You can no longer double your spell slots from a single side of the progression. Some of the other stuff I pointed out still need to be toned down, though.
    Last edited by PId6; 2009-07-23 at 06:45 AM.
    Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
    Potpourri Creation Contest II Winner: Desert Martial Adept Substitution Levels
    Potpourri Creation Contest III Best Characterization: Edward the Sly's Lucky Spells
    Prestige Class Contest XXI Submission: Child of the Seelie Court

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    It's a dual progression class, not to mention spellcasting. The problem with dead levels has been that A. you wouldn't want to take that level, and B. you don't get anything special at those levels. However, it's not that big a deal with dual progression because A. nothing else offers the same thing so you're going to take the level anyway, and B. you already get spellcasting advancement, meaning new spells and new slots, so it's not like you're not getting anything new, and it's nothing at all like dead levels on a fighter or something.
    Guess I was overzealous. Gone back, nerfed the progression of Doublecast (until 20th, which is the capstone) and added the joke feature I had originally planned to put in all... undead levels? of this class.

    If you do a wizard 3/cleric 2/mage priest 15 build, the only thing you end up losing compared to a wizard 20 or cleric 20 is a few extra spell slots and some free wizard spells, due to your True Spellcasting Power resetting your caster level. Considering all you gain in exchange for 4-5 spell slots, it's way too good a deal. And that's not including Power Equals Power, which effectively doubles your spell slots, mitigating even that one drawback twice over.
    Power Equals Power only doubles your lower level spell slots anyway. Until you hit near-Epic, whereupon the whole system breaks.

    And why are you going Wiz 3/Clr 2 when you can go Wiz 4/Clr 1? :P

    That said I've gone back and made it so even with True Spellcasting Power you lose one caster level. I'd prefer to make it so it's equal to the highest of your arcane and your divine spellcasting caster levels plus your MP level but I wasn't sure I could get that codified too easily.

    And why can't you take Leadership anyway even as a mage priest? Besides, Leadership is pretty broken in and of itself.
    Point, but "Guy 2 levels below you is a match for you" is a decent benchmark for "You've fallen too far behind"

    Quicken is a swift action. Full-round actions only take up your standard and move actions. So you can Doublecast two 9th level spells, then stack a 5th level spell on top of that, and then have your cohort cast another 9th level spell and a quickened 5th level one.
    I've specifically gone back and edited it so you can't use quickened spells and doublecast in the same round.

    (Note: Leadership cheese allows your cohort to take a cohort for more spells, and then continue stacking more cohorts, but I'll stop there.)
    With the minor problem that these extra cohorts will not have spells that are worth using in real fights at your level. But I digress.

    Nevermind, I thought it would work like the Ultimate Magus and require that you expend spell slots from the other side. Actually, the way it is now, I don't really understand what it has to do with a wizard/cleric. Such an ability seems much more fitting on a sorcerer or something. At least make it related to a dual progression class somehow, such as requiring slots from the other side.
    Point. I instead nerfed it a little more - now it requires double the metamagic adjustment rather than exactly the metamagic adjustment.

    *goes back and puts all these into the alternate Chosen Sorcerer class*

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mikeejimbo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Mage Priest looks nice. Now how can I enter it with an Archivist?
    Thanks to zegma for my awesome avatar.
    Proudly the founder of the Mr. Scruffy fanclub.
    We will not let Nessie down! http://www.petitiononline.com/PLEAOSAR/
    My DMs' Guild Stuff

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeejimbo View Post
    Mage Priest looks nice. Now how can I enter it with an Archivist?
    You can't, because too many class features revolve around domains. Besides, two prepared casting classes from the same stat is a little cheesy; Chosen Sorcerer gets away with it because it's a spontaneous caster class.

    Or I could just rip out two class features (A New Domain, Priest's Reserve)...

    EDIT: Went back. Did so. Also reordered other class features so I don't get many undead levels in a row.
    Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2009-07-23 at 07:31 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Malsheem, Nessus
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    You can't, because too many class features revolve around domains. Besides, two prepared casting classes from the same stat is a little cheesy; Chosen Sorcerer gets away with it because it's a spontaneous caster class.

    Or I could just rip out two class features (A New Domain, Priest's Reserve)...

    EDIT: Went back. Did so. Also reordered other class features so I don't get many undead levels in a row.
    Actually, there are a number of ways to obtain extra domains, so I'd say requiring an archivist to spend extra resources on that is a nice balancing factor for the shared prime requisite.
    Better to DM in Baator than play in Celestia
    You can just call me Dice; that's how I roll.


    Spoiler: Sig of Holding
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by abadguy View Post
    Darn you PoDL for making me care about a bunch of NPC Commoners!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chambers View Post
    I'm pretty sure turning Waterdeep into a sheet of glass wasn't the best win condition for that fight. We lived though!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'DiceLost View Post
    <Snip>
    Where are my Like, Love, and Want to Have Your Manchildren (Totally Homo) buttons for this post?
    Won a cookie for this, won everything for this

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by PairO'Dice Lost View Post
    Actually, there are a number of ways to obtain extra domains, so I'd say requiring an archivist to spend extra resources on that is a nice balancing factor for the shared prime requisite.
    Really? Post one or two so we can answer the original guy's question.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PId6's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: If the Mystic Theurge Didn't Suck: The Mage Priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Guess I was overzealous. Gone back, nerfed the progression of Doublecast (until 20th, which is the capstone) and added the joke feature I had originally planned to put in all... undead levels? of this class.
    Okay, I admit, I laughed at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    And why are you going Wiz 3/Clr 2 when you can go Wiz 4/Clr 1? :P
    Wiz 4/Clr 1 gives 16th level cleric, meaning you miss out on 9th level spells. Seems a pretty big difference to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    That said I've gone back and made it so even with True Spellcasting Power you lose one caster level. I'd prefer to make it so it's equal to the highest of your arcane and your divine spellcasting caster levels plus your MP level but I wasn't sure I could get that codified too easily.
    What about "Every spell cast by the mage priest has its base caster level set to her class level plus levels in her primary arcane class, or her class level plus levels in her primary divine class, whichever is higher. For example, a wizard 3/cleric 1/mage priest 12 has a base caster level of 15 for all of her spells, regardless of whether they come from her wizard or cleric slots."

    You might also want to specify something about how Practiced Spellcaster won't let you go above this value.

    Actually, this wording leaves open a potential abuse since even the CL of spells from other classes are affected, such as sorcerer spells from a wizard 3/cleric 1/sorcerer 1/mage priest 12 having the same CL as her wizard spells. But I can't think of a way to limit that without sounding awkward and I can't really think of why anyone would possibly do this either, so it's not that important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Point, but "Guy 2 levels below you is a match for you" is a decent benchmark for "You've fallen too far behind"
    Yeah, the middle levels are quite a bit worse for a dual progression class than a plain caster. Still, it shouldn't be that much better at level 20 just because of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    I've specifically gone back and edited it so you can't use quickened spells and doublecast in the same round.
    Just say you can't use a swift action (not quickened action) in the same round. It'd be mechanically the same as casting a free quickened spell, except you give up your move action in exchange for being able to quicken higher level spells, which is a very good trade.

    But even as a capstone, at will Doublecast is too much. It's free quicken for 6th to 9th level spells, and I really don't think it should go above 5/day, even at level 20. Number of actions is everything at high levels, and being able to cast two 9th level spells makes this vastly superior to other spellcasters that can only cast a 9th and a 5th level spell per round. The only other way to indiscriminately quicken 9th level spells before epic requires a 170,000 gp item, and that only works 3/day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    With the minor problem that these extra cohorts will not have spells that are worth using in real fights at your level. But I digress.
    Battlefield control is good at any level. But yeah, that's another issue entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    Point. I instead nerfed it a little more - now it requires double the metamagic adjustment rather than exactly the metamagic adjustment.
    It's still a little questionable how that ability fits into this PrC, but it's mechanically sound. Add in "or more" after "adjust the spell by" so that you don't have to get exactly the right number to metamagic something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omegonthesane View Post
    *goes back and puts all these into the alternate Chosen Sorcerer class*
    Which reminds me, I haven't looked much at the chosen sorcerer yet.

    Triplecast *shudders*
    Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
    Potpourri Creation Contest II Winner: Desert Martial Adept Substitution Levels
    Potpourri Creation Contest III Best Characterization: Edward the Sly's Lucky Spells
    Prestige Class Contest XXI Submission: Child of the Seelie Court

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •