How much for custom magic item

[oxinabox]

ok you know the boots of Landing: p77 Magic item compedulum.
removes 2 dice of falling damage.

how much for a better pair?

How much for 5 dice
10 dice

15 dice?

anyone?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The original version is based on the power Catfall, both that and the MIC version are at a manifester level of 2. The MIC version is always active and costs half as much, probably due to how much they thought the ability is worth. I'd say the price is power level (1) x manifester level (2) x 250 gp, so for example to take ten fewer dice of damage would be (1 x 10 x 250) = 2500 gp.

[Kylarra]

Ring of Feather fall is 2200 gp. extrapolate from there?

[Curmudgeon]

Complete Warrior (page 133) has the anti-impact armor property for +2,000 gp:

... bludgeoning damage that affects all or most of the entire body (such as constriction and falling damage) is halved.

[oxinabox]

hmm i have a problem.
I said he could have it for 5K
for a 15 Damage die reduation.

He's a raptorian. The party is at lvl 10
now when he asked for it i knew he planned to use it to, use his footspikes
to drop down and kill them.
i said he wopuld doo damagea equall to the ddamage he would take himself.

however i didn't fully think it through when i gave him the item.

He can fly 150 ft as a move action.
then fall 150 ft, taking no damage and do 19d6: 2 large footspikes=4d6 +15d6 fro falling 150 feet.

that means on average what ever he hits, needs to roll a save agaist massive damage.

He's out doing all the much less experienced players by a huge ammount.

his foot skies a metaline becomes addymantium and he can cut through anything.


Either I change the mechanic.
i reprice the item.

I'm going to have to just admit he's broken my mechanic, and tell him that his comparative power is too great, and to give him a challange i'ld have to play monster's of a CR that would kill any other partymember.

what if i took the original item then for each impovent by one doubled them price
damage die
reduction- cost
2-500 orginal
3-1000
4-2000
5-4000
6-8000
7-16000
8-32,000
9-64,000
10-128,000
...
he'ld never get to the full damage until he was similar power to the other partymemebers.

But he could get a 50 foot damage reduction.
which means as a full round action he would do:
4+5=9d6 damage.
He Still OutDamages the Wizard. (who cats as a lvl 7 wizard (mystic theurge, see))
But 9d6 ain't too excessive for a lvl 10.
it puts him on par roughly with the rest of the party.

Still have the problem opf his shoes cutting through EVERYTHING.
Like a Boat (this is a nautical cmapaign)

He can still do more damage, he just has too take it himself as well.

Actully i might just take away what ever it is that lets him fly at 150 ft per round.
he should only do 40.
actally 50, lvl 8 substitution fighter lvl

and shouldn he be taking a movement penalty for mitheral full plate?

[Anteros]

If he's got a magic item that's absorbing the impact of his fall...why isn't it absorbing the impact for whatever he's hitting too? Logically, if the item is making him land softly, then he's landing softly on top of whatever he's attacking.

It doesn't seem like it would be unreasonable to tweak this in order to bring him in line with the other players, without completely breaking his build, and it only takes a slight change of the fluff.

[oxinabox]

If he's got a magic item that's absorbing the impact of his fall...why isn't it absorbing the impact for whatever he's hitting too? Logically, if the item is making him land softly, then he's landing softly on top of whatever he's attacking.
.

hmm i see you point.
esp since it's based of catfall.
so land soft.

But first i'll work out wat with his extgra damage dice on he foot spikes: I coutn 3 extrea d6's.
he should only beable to use one foot spike not both, he can only attakc with two via both TWF and dive attack

Falling does not count as a dive attack. so he soulnd't deal doubeldamage from that.
and him using two is not a standard action except as part of a dive attack.
which he want doing if he was falling. (falling is a free action, diving is part of a move)
Since dive implies control, fall does not - he wouldn't even be entitle to a attack roll when falling.

[oxinabox]

I wrote him an email, but before i send it tomorrow, i was wondering if someone could fact check it.
I've had problems with him (he normally dm's a game i play in, misinterpretting rules) and when i point things out in the SRD he's normally fine about it.
Eg daggers as throwing weapons.

But i don't want to go around making a mistake, the wording not so clear in RacesofWild.

I've been reading the books.
I should have been listening properly when you explained what you were doing with the dive attack, my bad.
You're operating your footspikes incorrectly sorry. hate to tell you this.

Falling is a free action.
But it is not a dive attack as per page 68ish of the races of the wild.
Dive attack means you need control: so not when falling (certainly not when you have no move left), dive attaqck is a move action (basically).
So in a full round you can't fly up 150 ft (using up all your move) then go
At the end of the dive you may make two attack if you have two foot spikes:
Normalyl trhis would be a full round action to use TWF.
But this lets you do two attacks (and therefor two rolls) basically as a standard action.*
TWF, which this does count as TWF

"A character wearing a pair of foot spikes can attack with both as if wielding two light weapons."
So standard TWF rules apply except: "A character can’t use a single foot spike as part of a two-weapon attack."
So therefore you would take a -4 and -8 penalty to attack.


I also suspect falling ends your move for the turn, and you may then spend a move action next turn to recover.

Also COuld you explain why you can move 150 ft as a move action? is it a full round run action and i missheard you? if so it should be 200 ft, since you're only in medium armour (so you move 4*speed), and lose your dex bonus to AC.
you speed should be 40 ft for class (at average, but I assume you to the feat that make it perfect), and the +10 for the lvl 8 fighter substitution.
so 50 ft.

I'm sorry to do this to your build,
Frames



*Note: i believe I told you i had a modified Dual stike feet that did similar. (but not as nice as your end of dive)
Deul stike:
Prereqs: TWF, dex 13+
As a standard atction attack with both your weapons (once each).
at the highest Attack bonus for each.
On top of normal TWF penalties you take an additional -4 penalty with your offhand.

[Curmudgeon]

now when he asked for it i knew he planned to use it to, use his footspikes
to drop down and kill them.
i said he wopuld doo damagea equall to the ddamage he would take himself

You've got two basic problems here.

1. There is no automatic "drop down and kill them" maneuver. All D&D damage requires an attack roll, which must match the target's AC -- otherwise the falling character just hit the dirt instead of the intended target. Flying creatures can make dive attacks to do extra damage, and this is what you should use here.
2. Winged creatures don't drop at full speed. They stall instead, with their wings causing much less vertical acceleration and lower terminal velocity: 300' dropped per round instead of 1200'. ¼ the vertical speed means only 1/16 the kinetic energy, and plenty of time for enemies to get out of the way.

[BigPapaSmurf]

Wow holy munchkin Batman!

I felt the item gave you the ability to land skillfully to reduce your damage taken, it you landed on top of something intentionally I would make them take normal damage.

[Quietus]

hmm i have a problem.
I said he could have it for 5K
for a 15 Damage die reduation.

He's a raptorian. The party is at lvl 10
now when he asked for it i knew he planned to use it to, use his footspikes
to drop down and kill them.
i said he wopuld doo damagea equall to the ddamage he would take himself

This.

Apply the rule of "Yes, and../Yes, but..", and tell him that yes, he can do extra damage when falling from great heights into something... you'll take the falling damage he would have normally taken, and apply half of it to the target. If he wants boots of catfall/ring of feather fall/whatever, that's fine. He can drop from 150 feet and take no damage. Then he splits that zero damage with whatever he fell on. If he wants to do 15d6 damage, he'll have to take half of it himself. This also neatly avoids the constant massive damage save issue.

I would, however, allow the aforementioned armor enhancement to further cut HIS half of the damage in half... so where each would on average take 26 damage, if he wants to pay 2k to enchant his armor with that anti-impact effect, he'd take average 13. The reason being, it costs the same as a ring of feather fall, for much less effect, and fluffwise presents as being specific to ABSORBING the fall, not negating it, portion or otherwise.

[Ninetail]

He's a raptorian. The party is at lvl 10
now when he asked for it i knew he planned to use it to, use his footspikes
to drop down and kill them.
i said he wopuld doo damagea equall to the ddamage he would take himself.

however i didn't fully think it through when i gave him the item.

He can fly 150 ft as a move action.
then fall 150 ft, taking no damage and do 19d6: 2 large footspikes=4d6 +15d6 fro falling 150 feet.

that means on average what ever he hits, needs to roll a save agaist massive damage.

Something is wrong here.

How does he fly 150 feet as a single move action?

Is he taking a double move up and then falling as a free action? If so, he doesn't get to make attack rolls. Attacking is a standard action. You're in your rights to rule that he just falls, and whatever was beneath him gets out of the way.

If you're generous, you can let him crash into his target. But, he can't attack with the blades -- he hits with his full body, more or less. Depending on how the enchantment works, he may or may not cause any damage. If the negation is a feather fall-type effect, making him fall lightly, then no damage, because he doesn't hit hard enough.

If it's some sort of damage-absorbing effect, then I'd let the crash victim take a portion of the falling damage. However, since he's a flying creature, he doesn't fall in the same way as a nonwinged creature would, as a previous reply noted. So I'd assign 1/4 or 1/2 of the falling damage as damage to the creature. I'd also allow a Reflex save for half damage.

So falling 150 feet onto something might be about 7d6, Reflex half. At best.

The character would also be prone following his fall, and would provoke an attack of opportunity (for entering the target's space) before causing any damage. I'd probably allow a chance to knock the target prone, too.

[oxinabox]

hmm I'll have a talk to him.

I can see drop attacks being a ranged attack, with yourself as the weapon... but that will break.

19d6 is lot.
the ninja does similar.
But that's once per encolunter if he's very lucky.

Basically he (the ninja) needs to be in possition to do a fullattack during the Flatfooted round, and needs to beet what ever he want to kill's inititve.
and then suceed of 4 attack rolls with his low attack that's far from likly. (TWF penalties)

[oxinabox]

He can't move 150 ft as a move action.
He's told me such. he was just assuming he spend soem time flying up, before falling down.
anyway.

But from dmg.
A flying creature that stops flying, falls 150 ft. (this must be where the 150 ft comes from)
It is a stall.
at the end of the fall, he may spend a full round action to recover.
otherwise he falls another 300 ft.

After faling 150 ft, he isn't entitled to an attack, as an attack requires an action.
It certainly doesn't count as a dive.

up speed is half speed, down speed is double (for good manoverability)
If he wants control then he must be moving at his downspeed.
without control, he is stalled and must make a fullround action to recover before he can take anyiother action.

If he want to make a dive attack, he gets no furthur bonus beond the x2 damage, which he gets from a dive attack. it already take this into account.



he may use two foot spikes, bujt they are 2 speperate attacks and are therefore TWF. (which as a dive attack special for footspikes may be done at the end of the dive, iotherwise Fullround action)
it's also two move actions to extrend 2 footspikes without TWF feat.



The above was by RAW the bellow is not (someone tell me if there are raw rules for this)
If He want to fall on someone then.
He may do his fall damage too them, It may be negated on his side by his items (i'm not too sure about this).
They are entitled to a reflex save:
DC 20 from 10 ft above them, for every 10 ft he his higher than that the DC decreased by 2, as it's harder to now where he's going to droo, and they have more time to react.
so
10 ft DC 20 DMG 0
20 ft DC 18 DMG 1d6
30 ft DC 16 DMG 2d6
40 ft DC 14 DMG 3d6
...
110 ft DC 0. DMG 10d6

When lands He is entitled to a Tumble check to not fall prone. this is easy as he has good manoverability.

however this isn't landing this is crashing so, he automatically falls prone.
(if he agues that hsboots of landing shound negate cos he's landing softly then i can counter with "If your falling slowly, then you shouldn't be doing damage.").

If he hits some one and does any damage then the must make a FORT Save DC 20 + 2*(number of fall damage dice, hit with)
thus even being fallen on by someoone from 10 ft can knock prone.
it's a fortsave cos its basically how Tough are you.



Also must check he din't ake fighter bonus feets when he took raptorian substitution levels.

[holywhippet]

Just send some gelatinous cube's at him - he'll soon learn that death from above is a bad idea.

While I do agree he shouldn't get an attack roll. He does have to land somewhere and if it's on the enemy they should take damage. I'd be tempted to offer him a spot check to work out if he's directly above and a spot check for the enemy to notice him and evade.

[lsfreak]

Attack roll using BAB + Intelligence versus AC15, then Reflex negates. That matches the rules for avoiding massed-fire arrows and siege weapons (catapults, etc). Have to make an attack roll versus the square, then the targets get a Reflex save to negate all damage.

[only1doug]

I agree with many other posters, there are a couple of issues to address here:

1. Falling damage: Both falling character and character fallen on take equal damage, if he has an item that reduces falling damage then it reduces both sets of damage taken.

2. targetting: Falling 150' in 1 round is a stall, stalling means you have lost control of flight. Loss of control means no targetting is possible (or certainly more difficult). Landing on someone is probably a touch attack with a penalty (I'd give -1 to hit /10' of uncontrolled flight).

your player might not like these suggestions, thats because you've allowed him a game breaking exploit and he may resent his exploit being Nerfed.
Tough luck Player, it is game breaking therefore it gets nerfed. Offer him a free (complete) character rebuild, if he insists on asking for a reason tell him that the god's were scared of him so changed the laws of physics in your game world so that he couldn't do that anymore.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

It's all very simple, it just doesn't work that way.
If he slows the fall he should deal no damage, If he deals damage he should take half of it and only deal half of it, if he absorbs damage he should absorb damage from both sides as equally as possible. He can't attack while falling.
The first and last one are just by the rules.

[oxinabox]

Offer him a free (complete) character rebuild,

noway.
He'll be an delever pixie.
Screw that