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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Post Thog's Alignment

    I don't think that thog is Evil,because When they were breaking out of prison,he seemed like a small child, and got worried that nale was lost, and even said that nale "let him stay up an hour past his bedtime on weekends" even though they would have a hard time stopping him if they tried. He cared for his dwarf puppy, too.....He seems so innocent and childlike, and forgets why he got mad after raging. He was too engrossed in is own thoughts when he killed the sylph, thinking she was just another monster. Icecream stops him from going berserk, and he dressed up as a LEPRECHAUN! He just seems too innocent to be evil, I think he's more of a Chaotic Neutral type
    Last edited by Draxonicar; 2009-07-24 at 11:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    I don't think that thog is Evil,because When they were breaking out of prison,he seemed like a small child, and got worried that nale was lost, and even said that nale "let him stay up an hour past his bedtime on weekends" even though they would have a hard time stopping him if they tried. He cared for his dwarf puppy, too.....He seems so innocent and childlike, and forgets why he got mad after raging. He was too engrossed in is own thoughts when he killed the sylph, thinking she was just another monster. Icecream stops him from going berserk, and he dressed up as a LEPRECHAUN! He just seems too innocent to be evil, I think he's more of a Chaotic Neutral type
    *checks watch*

    Yep, been about four to six weeks since the last "Thog can't be CE thread." So this thread is right on time.
    Last edited by Porthos; 2009-07-24 at 11:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Is it even possible to be so engrossed that you can't here someones cries for help?
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    *sigh*
    We haven't had one of those threads in a while.
    Thog obeys Nale's evil orders without hesitation. Orders that include slaughtering innocent people in droves. He considers cleaving guardsmen in two while resisting arrest is fun. He will whack people within an inch of their lives with doors so that he and his friends can have ice cream. He's Chaotic Evil. He might be Chaotic Neutral or even Good if it was someone else ordering him around rather than Nale but right now, he's Chaotic Evil.
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    I don't think that thog is Evil,because When they were breaking out of prison,he seemed like a small child, and got worried that nale was lost, and even said that nale "let him stay up an hour past his bedtime on weekends" even though they would have a hard time stopping him if they tried. He cared for his dwarf puppy, too.....He seems so innocent and childlike, and forgets why he got mad after raging. He was too engrossed in is own thoughts when he killed the sylph, thinking she was just another monster. Icecream stops him from going berserk, and he dressed up as a LEPRECHAUN! He just seems too innocent to be evil, I think he's more of a Chaotic Neutral type
    You realize most of these can be attributed to his lack of mental stats, correct?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Nah, he's evil. The philosophy of, "thog like breaking stuff," generally defines other people among that "stuff" with little regard to whether or not it needs to be justified.
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by M0rt View Post
    *sigh*
    We haven't had one of those threads in a while.
    Thog obeys Nale's evil orders without hesitation. Orders that include slaughtering innocent people in droves. He considers cleaving guardsmen in two while resisting arrest is fun. He will whack people within an inch of their lives with doors so that he and his friends can have ice cream. He's Chaotic Evil. He might be Chaotic Neutral or even Good if it was someone else ordering him around rather than Nale but right now, he's Chaotic Evil.
    You're just biased against people who have commited murder over five hundred times.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    He cared for his dwarf puppy, too.....
    Is this some kind of joke? Slavery. Is. Evil.
    There, I said what should have been obvious to anyone. Keeping another intelligent being on a leash, terrorizing it and calling it a "puppy" is a clear sign of an evil, and probably deranged, mind. Just because Elan was capable of using Thog's evil, bloodlust and lack of empathy to achieve a good end doesn't make Thog good anymore than Belkar's being used in the same way makes him good.
    Last edited by 73 Bits of Lint; 2009-07-24 at 11:29 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    I wish I thought it was certain, or even terribly likely, that Corvis was reading this. Nevertheless. *clears throat*

    I have a prejudice against axe-murdering psychopaths.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Well, think about it.
    Every creature, no matter how stupid, cares about life a little bit in the DnD world. Unless, of course, they are evil, or mindless (generally undead.)
    Thog probably has a wisdom of 3-5, and an INT of 3-5. Animals are 1-2.
    He still has the choice to be good. Instead, he is evil.

    To sum it up, if someone was as stupid as Thog, but they instead helped people, using their powers for good, would they be good?
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by 73 Bits of Lint View Post
    Keeping another intelligent being on a leash, terrorizing it and calling it a "puppy" is a clear sign of an evil, and probably deranged, mind.
    Well, not necessarily

    That said, Thog is clearly and thoroughly CE. In an endearing sort of way.

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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Erts View Post
    To sum it up, if someone was as stupid as Thog, but they instead helped people, using their powers for good, would they be good?
    You'd be surprised at how many people forget about that corollary when they say that Thog Is Too Stupid to be Evil.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    For the record, Chaotic Neutral is generally for madmen and the insane, and thog DOESN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.



    Compare belkar to thog

    B: dulls his knives to hurt more
    T: ICE CREAM!
    B: Come here, my delicious chunks of XP
    T: Nale let thog stay up an hour past bedtime on weekends!
    B: I AM A SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!!
    T: NO, without breadcrumbs nale will get lost in the witches forest!
    B: Uses whores on a regular basis
    T: Thinks girls are scary



    Honestly, I don't see a resemblance
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    thog DOESN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
    He has an Int score highter than 2. Therefore, he knows better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar
    Honestly, I don't see a resemblance
    And since when people of the same alignment are supposed to be identical? Besides, Thog kills people for fun like Belkar and Xykon, doesn't he?
    Last edited by Morty; 2009-07-24 at 12:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    It's quite simple, actually:

    Thog evil.

    Any other conclusion is just... mind boggling. No clue how someone can read the Thog-comics and still think he's not evil. If you want proof "Thog help nale nail not-nale".... cutting of heads of people etc etc and liking it.

    Thog Evil. Get over it.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    I thought it was because he likes breaking thing, like lots of children do. And just because he has an INT score doesn't man he knows any better. If a half-orc grows up thinking murder, killing and destruction are ok, how does he know any better?



    He wanted a puppy, but nale, being evil,gave him a dwarf and said it was a puppy.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Yes, Thog have mind of child.

    Vicious, sadistic child who enjoys hurting others.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Compare Belkar to Thog

    B: Knows the lyrics to 'Meet Me in St. Louis'
    T: Cleaves guardsmen in half
    B: Is a gourmet chef
    T: Killed a harmless sylph while ignoring her pleas for mercy
    B: Saved Haley's life and refused to kill the person attacking her once he'd subdued her
    T: Beat Haley into submission with a door
    B: Saved and fed a stray cat that became his pet
    T: Enslaved a dwarf for a pet

    See how fun weighted comparisons can be?

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    For the record, Chaotic Neutral is generally for madmen and the insane, and thog DOESN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.



    Compare belkar to thog

    B: dulls his knives to hurt more
    T: ICE CREAM!
    B: Come here, my delicious chunks of XP
    T: Nale let thog stay up an hour past bedtime on weekends!
    B: I AM A SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!!
    T: NO, without breadcrumbs nale will get lost in the witches forest!
    B: Uses whores on a regular basis
    T: Thinks girls are scary



    Honestly, I don't see a resemblance
    Just because their alignment is the same doesn't mean their personalities will be. There are maaany more factors. As many D&D books have stated, even those with evil alignments often care about some people close to them (Nale, Sabine, possibly Elan). But they have little regard for life. He brutally murdered the earth sprite without a second thought, took the initiative in beating Haley almost to death with a door with little provocation. "Resisting arrest is fun" (chops off a head)! HE KILLS PEOPLE FOR FUN! It doesn't matter if he also thinks ice cream and puppies are fun, any more than Belkar's friendship with Mr. Scruffy makes him less evil.

    We've had this debate before, and the answer is always the same. Thog is CE.

    Edit: Also, he DOES know better. "Nail not Nail" shows he knows exactly what he's doing. "Thog Guilty."
    Last edited by Oberon; 2009-07-24 at 12:25 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    He wanted a puppy, but nale, being evil,gave him a dwarf and said it was a puppy.
    Where does it say that? He just kept it as a slave and pretends its a puppy.
    Last edited by Erts; 2009-07-24 at 12:24 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    I'm going to wade in here with another not-CE, personally. I can see how he COULD be CE, and it wouldn't lessen my enjoyment of him one bit.

    But I don't really recall him doing much in the way of evil (on or off page) when he was having his side-quest with Elan. Infact, if I remember correctly, at the climax of that little arc, he even tried to take steps to make everyone he liked friends, so that nale and not-nale could all get along. Of course, he did do so by axe-ing someone else. (Forget who, brain...hazy). He's certainly not CG!

    But the way it seems to me, he's definately chaotic, but moral-wise, he kind of just takes the lead of whoever's around that he's latched onto. And he IS capable of empathy and concern for others, if only people he actually knows.

    And of course he likes to break stuff. Thog not elf, you know. ;)

    He seems at least a little CN, to me. Possibly with tendancies, but tendancies that can be easily explained through his peers.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Okay. Here then:
    Is he really chaotic, or is he to stupid to recognize rules?
    In fact, I think Thog is LN, just the only rules he follows are whatever Nale says.
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  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    And just because he has an INT score doesn't man he knows any better.
    Actually, by rules, it does.

    Thog knows he is guilty of crimes. Which implies that he does know better.

    Also also: CN = Insane was a First/Second Edition idea. Thankfully long gone.

    Also also also: Childish Isn't Necessarily Innocent.

    Thog is funny.
    Thog is charming.
    Thog also loves wanton death and destruction. He also loves torturing people. And murdering. And.

    Well, you get the idea.

    I will say that IF Thog had a good role model then perhaps his violent and destructive tendencies might be curtailed. But if if and buts were candy and nuts, then we'd all have a merry christmas, as the old saying goes.
    Last edited by Porthos; 2009-07-24 at 12:27 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    For the record, Chaotic Neutral is generally for madmen and the insane,
    "For the record," no. For a very long time now, being completely insane has officially made someone True Neutral in the same "unable to truly have an alignment" sense as animals. Beyond that, are you saying Thog is insane?
    Compare belkar to thog
    [...]
    Honestly, I don't see a resemblance
    Comparisons like that always miss the point that there are more than nine personalities in the world. Redcloak doesn't much resemble Nale either, yet both are Lawful Evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Draxonicar View Post
    If [any entity] grows up thinking murder, killing and destruction are ok, how does he know any better?
    He doesn't. That's why he grows up Chaotic Evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erts View Post
    Okay. Here then:
    Is he really chaotic, or is he to stupid to recognize rules?
    In fact, I think Thog is LN, just the only rules he follows are whatever Nale says.
    Barbarian. Can't be Lawful.
    Last edited by Kish; 2009-07-24 at 12:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post

    Barbarian. Can't be Lawful.
    Irrelevant! For all we know, in the OOTS world it's allowed!
    Or, he's True Neutral.

    Note the sarcasm.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiki Snakes View Post
    But I don't really recall him doing much in the way of evil (on or off page) when he was having his side-quest with Elan. Infact, if I remember correctly, at the climax of that little arc, he even tried to take steps to make everyone he liked friends, so that nale and not-nale could all get along. Of course, he did do so by axe-ing someone else. (Forget who, brain...hazy). He's certainly not CG!
    .
    This is exactly what I was talking about in my last post. The people he's fond of he wants to get along. But anyone else, he's perfectly happy to murder.

    That's evil my friends.

    Evil people can still have friends and loved ones. Look at Redcloak. Look at the mother Black Dragon.

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    Colossus in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Erts View Post
    Irrelevant! For all we know, in the OOTS world it's allowed!
    Or, he's True Neutral.

    Note the sarcasm.
    "Thog's unthinking obedience to Nale's orders makes him Lawful" is actually a much stronger case than anyone's ever made for Thog being nonevil.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by M0rt View Post
    *sigh*
    We haven't had one of those threads in a while.
    Thog obeys Nale's evil orders without hesitation. Orders that include slaughtering innocent people in droves. He considers cleaving guardsmen in two while resisting arrest is fun. He will whack people within an inch of their lives with doors so that he and his friends can have ice cream. He's Chaotic Evil. He might be Chaotic Neutral or even Good if it was someone else ordering him around rather than Nale but right now, he's Chaotic Evil.
    Sadly, I'd have to agree.

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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Thog's alignment is Chaotic Sexy:

    "if you wanna be thog's lover, you gotta get with thog's friends"

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    Default Re: Thog's Alignment

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    "Thog's unthinking obedience to Nale's orders makes him Lawful" is actually a much stronger case than anyone's ever made for Thog being nonevil.
    Deciding if someone is Lawful or Chaotic is always easier than if he is Good or Evil. Simply because Good and Evil are a moral issue, while Law and Chaos are behavioral ones.
    I've argued (jokingly) that the Joker in The Dark Knight is CG, just really messed up. ("He's only trying to get everyone to lighten up! That's altruistic!")
    Last edited by Erts; 2009-07-24 at 12:37 PM.
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