0 Point Buy builds

[Random832]

Inspired by the "Druid with all 8's" thread, I was wondering if anyone has any ideas for class combinations that would be playable with 0 point buy generally. (If you're not familiar with point buy rules, a calculator is here)

[Tengu_temp]

Warlock. Summon swarms on low levels, on medium/high levels most stuff has such low touch AC that even with crappy dex your EB will still hit them. Stay away from invocations that let the target make saving throws and you're good to go.

[Random832]

Warlock.

You just going with all eights, or do you have stats to go with that?

[Draz74]

Wildshape Variant Ranger is generally considered the best all-8s class, followed by Warlock. Dragonfire Adept is pretty good too.

[grautry]

As has been said, Anthrobatcheese Druid ends up with Str 4, Dex 8, Con 8, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 6.

- Str/Dex will be replaced come level 5 by Wildshape.
- Your HP will be hurting but then again, so will everyone else's.
- You've got 4 skills points(3 after Int penalty) so you can easily max Concentration and get some ranks into Handle Animal to teach your AC all the tricks you need. Distribute the rest as you see fit.
- Admittedly, any sort of ability drain(especially Cha) will hurt, but then again, so will everyone else's(abbreviated from now on).
- Wis 14 means: 15 at 4th, 16 at 8th, 17 at 12th, 18 at 16th. You're pretty much good to go with spellcasting(though your saves will be somewhat low, BTASWEE). You won't get 9th level spells before 20 unfortunately, but then again most campaign's don't last as long and BTASWEE. If you can find some Wis-raising template that you can buy off in time, then you'll even get 9th level spellcasting.

If you can get DMM Persistent then a Cleric can also be fairly playable with that score selection.

One curious thing is that in this sort of a campaign, I think that Monster Races could actually turn out to be powerhouses as they usually have a fairly heavy ability adjustment.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Hm.

An Inspire Courage optimized Bard doesn't care about Cha so much.

Bard5/Evangelist5/Dread Pirate10?

We'd need the usual feats and items for IC, minus Words of Creation.

Sound of Silence might be useful, it has a save DC equal to that of your perform check.

[Elfin]

I'd also say Wildshape Variant Ranger.

All 8s...*shudders*
I can hardly take one 8...
This is going to give me nightmares.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

- Wis 14 means: 15 at 4th, 16 at 8th, 17 at 12th, 18 at 16th. You're pretty much good to go with spellcasting(though your saves will be somewhat low, BTASWEE). You won't get 9th level spells before 20 unfortunately, but then again most campaign's don't last as long and BTASWEE. If you can find some Wis-raising template that you can buy off in time, then you'll even get 9th level spellcasting.

If you get standard or at lease reasonable WBL it would be easy to by a periapt of wisdom or a tome/wish for inherent stat boost and get your new spell level as normal.

[Fostire]

You just going with all eights, or do you have stats to go with that?

All eights would do just fine for a warlock (he could work with less too). Since Eldritch blast is a touch attack you'll pretty much always hit, but for those cases you might miss you make a pixie warlock. Greater invisibility at will + eldritch blast + huge dex bonus = never again worrying about an enemies AC. Also pixies have plenty of abilities to make up for the low stats (SLAs, DR, SR, flight speed, small size, etc)

[Indon]

Well, if you still get spell slots for higher-level spells that you can cast (since you're allowed to fill higher-level spell slots with lower-level spells), you could probably create a wizard tricked-out to cast Magic Missiles with a +2 int class (You'll be even weaker than normal until level 4, sadly).

[erikun]

Human Monk 1/Wizard X

Faerie Mysteries Initiate (use INT for bonus HP)
Insightful Reflexes (use INT for Reflex saves)
Keen Intellect (use INT for Will saves/WIS skills)
Kung Fu Genius (use INT for Monk bonuses/AC)

Just pick up Faerie Mysteries/Kung Fu Genius at first level for the HP/AC boost. Possibly a flaw for to have three at 1st level. You just need to find something to boost your Fortitude. (or become undead )

STR 4, DEX 8, CON 4, INT 18, WIS 4, CHA 4

[Lycanthromancer]

I'd play a wizard. It's easy enough to get an Int in the 30s by mid-levels, if you really want to, even with a starting Int of 8.

[grautry]

If you get standard or at lease reasonable WBL it would be easy to by a periapt of wisdom or a tome/wish for inherent stat boost and get your new spell level as normal.

Hm, you know, maybe it's something we've misread(and really, it has never come up at our gaming table anyway) but don't you need a *base* score of 10+Spell level to cast those spells?

Anyone care to comment?

[Sanguine]

Hm, you know, maybe it's something we've misread(and really, it has never come up at our gaming table anyway) but don't you need a *base* score of 10+Spell level to cast those spells?

Anyone care to comment?

Yes, I will comment. An inherent bonus increases the base score not the temporary score thus an inherent bonus could qualify you for spells. Periapts of wisdom on the other hand...

[Douglas]

Hm, you know, maybe it's something we've misread(and really, it has never come up at our gaming table anyway) but don't you need a *base* score of 10+Spell level to cast those spells?

Anyone care to comment?

No. You need an score of 10+spell level for the entire time you spend preparing the spell and at the time you cast it. How you get that score is irrelevant.

There is very nearly nothing in the entire game that actually cares what your base ability scores are as opposed to your current ability scores including all modifiers. You can even take feats that require an ability score higher than your base score as long as you have a reliable means of boosting the score high enough, most commonly through equipment. If you ever lose the bonus that lets you qualify, though, you will temporarily lose the benefit of the feat.

[tyckspoon]

There is very nearly nothing in the entire game that actually cares what your base ability scores are as opposed to your current ability scores including all modifiers. You can even take feats that require an ability score higher than your base score as long as you have a reliable means of boosting the score high enough, most commonly through equipment. If you ever lose the bonus that lets you qualify, though, you will temporarily lose the benefit of the feat.

Skill points are the only thing I can think of off-hand; those are always gained depending on your true base Int score. Although as mentioned above, even if spellcasting *did* require your actual base score to be higher, an Inherent bonus modifies that base and would be a suitable means of meeting the requirement (the only reason they don't just say 'increase your base (stat) by +x is for helping to make sure you don't gain more than +5 worth to any one stat.)

[BlueWizard]

Most players aren't going to join a 0 point buy game, but I'd love to run one here.

[Gorgondantess]

Most players aren't going to join a 0 point buy game, but I'd love to run one here.

Yeah... it would be interesting, wouldn't it? I'd join.

[BlueWizard]

As a player I loved challenges, and hated when a player would bring their super-pc to solve all things.

The fear of losing my pc was what made the game thrilling.

That is why my games are dangerous.

[woodenbandman]

How about a Binder? You could always go for the Paladin of Tyranny Hexblade Binder debuffer. You could probably get 8th level vestiges for displacement from Otiax (I believe), DR 10/Adamantine, etc. Also you get Focalor, Chupoclops, and Zycerill, meaning free summon Monster all day long, with no need for charisma at all. Just run around and stand next to people, wield no weapon, pimp your bluff check, and use Fade Into Violence

Your build is Paladin of Tyranny 1/Hexblade (enough to get shadow companion)/Binder the rest. You will need to be a human to get Fade Into Violence on time. Take as many bluff boosters as possible, and by about level 5 or so your opponents will have a -4 on their attack rolls and (I believe) skill checks, so you should be gravy as long as you stay next to the fighter more or less.

Stick to the shadows, spam summon monster, move in to debuff your enemies if you actually have to. Human Paragon is a nice addition for a level to give your constitution a boost. You may very well need it.

Stats: All 8s. If you're allowed to dump stats, dump everything but Con and Charisma straight to 3, and pump those two up.

Remember: With this build your AC is absolute crap and you have zero survivability. You have to rely on your magic items, especially a ring of invisibility/blinking at the soonest possible opportunity to survive. If you do it right your enemies should take about a -8 to their saves when you stand next to them, and of course you can always spam summon monster. Should be playable at most levels, I guess.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Maybe an Orc or Goliath Barb. Get enough +s to Str, the starting score doesn't matter. And if you don't care about mentals anyways...

[aje8]

EDIT: Ninjaed on the orc thing.... though I go into alot more detail.

As has been said, Anthrobatcheese Druid ends up with Str 4, Dex 8, Con 8, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 6.

- Str/Dex will be replaced come level 5 by Wildshape.
- Your HP will be hurting but then again, so will everyone else's.
- You've got 4 skills points(3 after Int penalty) so you can easily max Concentration and get some ranks into Handle Animal to teach your AC all the tricks you need. Distribute the rest as you see fit.
- Admittedly, any sort of ability drain(especially Cha) will hurt, but then again, so will everyone else's(abbreviated from now on).
- Wis 14 means: 15 at 4th, 16 at 8th, 17 at 12th, 18 at 16th. You're pretty much good to go with spellcasting(though your saves will be somewhat low, BTASWEE). You won't get 9th level spells before 20 unfortunately, but then again most campaign's don't last as long and BTASWEE. If you can find some Wis-raising template that you can buy off in time, then you'll even get 9th level spellcasting.

It's actually better than this because:

A. Don't go Anthro Bat, go Dragonborn of Bahamut Antro-Bat for these scores:
Str 4, Dex 6, Con 10, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 6.

B. As others have mentioned..... a Peripat of Wisdom gives +2 Wisdom relativley cheap, you should be able to get one around level 5-6 then get a better one at the higher levels.

Most other all 8 build I can think of have been mentioned here already.... though I will suggest this:

Feral Orc Fighter 2/Barb 1/Tome of Battle Class X

Not sure if the Barb dip is worth it since you already have pounce from Feral..... w/e.

Between Feral and the Orc class you get decent abilties and good strength.... manuevers are farily ability score independant if you pick the right ones and the other beenfits of Feral means you're actually one of the more powerful non-Druid characters under a 0-point buy.

[Eldariel]

Waterborn Orc (that is, Dragonborn Water Orc) works best for Fighter-types. But yeah, Druid and Warlock are the best outta the box. Druid wins out over Wildshape Ranger due to AC being so awesome on early levels and Ranger AC still being useless. If not cheating (and thus using no racial ability modifiers), Druid will take a while to get casting, but even just Wildshape and Animal Companion are gonna get him far.

Around level 8, provided he's saving for Periapt +4, he finally catches up to his Wis needed for his highest level spells (4) and then again at ~13 and with inherents after that (provided no Wish abuse, but Wish-abuse isn't a part of any real game anyways; it'd get you 13 or infinite Wisdom by level 1, depending on how far you want to go tho). But yeah, Animal Companion is the biggest thing for Druid (it's the best AC you can get by far), and getting Wildshape from the same class just wins.


Warlock just shines thanks to Invocations, flight/invis/etc (his primary defenses) and company caring naught for stats, thus just needing to keep away to win out. And yah, Anthroborn Bat Druid would be SICK here with natural flight from level 1 and so (normal Druids can only get it from level 4 with Dire Bat).

[Ellisande]

Most players aren't going to join a 0 point buy game, but I'd love to run one here.

Add in a second "intrigued enough to join".

You'll probably find enough recruits just in this thread...

[AstralFire]

It would have to be some amazing roleplaying. I like having lots of mechanical widgets to press, even if they're not all that effective. Mister Notsosneaky McBackstabby wouldn't have that. :(

[Mr.Moron]

I think if you were being assigned all 8s, you're probably in a game where the point is to be unplayable weak. Which is fine I suppose, if you know that going in.I think in that scenario just go whole-hog go straight fighter or samurai.

[Curmudgeon]

Inspired by the "Druid with all 8's" thread, I was wondering if anyone has any ideas for class combinations that would be playable with 0 point buy generally. (If you're not familiar with point buy rules, a calculator is here)

This is not a point buy rules calculator. The rules don't make provisions for getting points by lowering scores below 8.

Standard Point Buy: All ability scores start at 8. Take 25 points to spread out among all abilities. For ability scores of 14 or lower, you buy additional points on a 1-for-1 basis. For ability scores higher than 14, it costs a little more (see the table below).

The table for how many points it takes to reach a particular score starts at 9. It's for additional points, not subtractional points.

you could probably create a wizard tricked-out to cast Magic Missiles with a +2 int class

Nope. Starting with 8 INT, +2 gives you 10 INT. You can only cast cantrips with that stat. Magic Missile requires a minimum INT of 11.

You can't really play a Wizard unless you go with at least a +4 INT race, and there aren't any with +0 LA.

[Adumbration]

You can't really play a Wizard unless you go with at least a +4 INT race, and there aren't any with +0 LA.

Yes you can. It's funny how often people forget age categories. Probably becouse they rarely use them.

[mcl01]

I wouldn't call a wizard advanced an age category even playable persay. That's a -2 modifier to con if you choose a +2 int race without a -2 con penalty. That's 2 HP at first level, and a -2 on fort saves.

Let's say a Middle Aged Lesser Fire Genasi.

7
7
7
11
9
7

2 HP at level 1. 8 AC. You don't even get bonus spells or increased DCs. You won't get access to 2nd level spells until 4th level. and you'll only get 1-2 more HP per level (75% chance to get 1).

Let's say you want a bonus spell, +1 save DC, and 2nd level spells on time.

5
5
5
12
10
8

Now you have 1 HP every level and 7 AC. The epitome of a glass cannon. And not even a cannon: a glass handgun.

[AstralFire]

...Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold?

-flees!-