[4e] Yet another rogue thread

[Hal]

Can't get enough, I guess.

Math savvy people, what would you suggest? I'm considering a weapon proficiency feat for my rogue, but I'm torn between a rapier and a katar. Do I choose consistently more damage (d8 rapier) or higher burst damage (d6, high crit katar)?

Of course, this hinges on whether or not sneak attack damage is maximized during a crit. My group can't decide whether or not it is.

[Eldmor]

Bonus damage is never maximized.
Take the rapier, and stab many with it.

[Kylarra]

If you want to be cheesy, take the double-blade.


but otherwise I second the rapier.

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

High crit is almost never worth it as you have a 5% crit chance. Rapier is steadily more damage, and high crit sucks when you roll a 1 for extra damage.

[Tengu_temp]

Of course, this hinges on whether or not sneak attack damage is maximized during a crit. My group can't decide whether or not it is.

I fail to see how is this relevant in this example. And no, sneak attack damage is not maximized on a crit.

Go for the rapier. Much higher damage overall - and, depending on the power you use, it might even deal more damage on a crit.

[tbarrie]

I fail to see how is this relevant in this example. And no, sneak attack damage is not maximized on a crit.

Nothing in the critical rules in the PHB implies sneak attack damage dice are treated any differently from weapon damage dice. Bonus damage dice that you only get when you score a crit aren't maximised, but as far as I can tell anything else is.

[RTGoodman]

Yeah, I've always been under the impression that Sneak Attack and Hunter's Quarry dice are maximized on a critical hit. The rules on PHB 278 say "determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack," and I think SA/HQ applies. Furthermore, the next section (Extra Damage) specifically calls out the extra damage dice from "magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons" as being the ones you roll normally on a crit.

[loopy]

Yeah, I've always been under the impression that Sneak Attack and Hunter's Quarry dice are maximized on a critical hit. The rules on PHB 278 say "determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack," and I think SA/HQ applies. Furthermore, the next section (Extra Damage) specifically calls out the extra damage dice from "magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons" as being the ones you roll normally on a crit.

This. Otherwise barbarians *severely* out-wallop rogues and rangers on a crit.

EDIT: Even though thats kind of the Barbarians point, with the Rampage class ability...

[Myatar_Panwar]

Well, you wouldn't reroll SA with high crit, if thats what your asking.

I don't see why else it would matter.

[Tengu_temp]

I had to check. This is what the PHB says about crits:

✦ Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage,
determine the maximum damage you can roll with
your attack. This is your critical damage. (Attacks
that don’t deal damage still don’t deal damage on a
critical hit.)
✦ Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as
well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage
you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra
damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum
damage; you add the result of the roll.

Emphasis mine. It appears that indeed, damage from SA, curse et cetera is maximized on a crit. Still, I don't see how this thing changes anything with high crit weapons.

[Aron Times]

I'm just a lowly Herald-level DM, but in the RPGA, Sneak Attack dice is maximized on a critical hit.

Only the bonus critical dice and high crit dice are not maximized on a critical hit.