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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    I heard the word randomly today on the boards, and I had no idea what it meant. A google and GiTP search make me think it's something incredibly cheesy and powerful. Can anyone explain?

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Dhavaer's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    Using the spells embrace the dark chaos and shun the dark chaos to change one feat to another. It cheesy in that you can use it on feats like elven racial proficiencies.
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    Signmaker's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    I do believe it's the usage of the Fiendish Codex's "Embrace the Dark Chaos" and "Shun the Dark Chaos".

    Embrace lets you trade in any feat you own for a 'tainted' feat.
    Shun lets you trade in any tainted feat you own for any feat in which you might qualify.

    For an example on the kinds of shenanigans that might ensue from such an arrangement, consider a gestalt Fighter20/Wizard 20. Who Embrace/Shuns all fighter feats in to metamagic feats.
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    Talic's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Signmakerens View Post
    I do believe it's the usage of the Fiendish Codex's "Embrace the Dark Chaos" and "Shun the Dark Chaos".

    Embrace lets you trade in any feat you own for a 'tainted' feat.
    Shun lets you trade in any tainted feat you own for any feat in which you might qualify.

    For an example on the kinds of shenanigans that might ensue from such an arrangement, consider a gestalt Fighter20/Wizard 20. Who Embrace/Shuns all fighter feats in to metamagic feats.
    No, the real shenanigans is when you have several racial feats, and you shuffle them, and find a way to restore them. Then it's infinite feats.

    Martial Weapon Prof: Longbow > Embrace to Tainted.
    Taint > Shun to anything.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    It's gross spells like this that make me miss the drawbacks from early edition spells like haste adding a year to your life.

    Okay, maybe I don't miss them that much but still. I would expect something like embrace the dark chaos would have a material component of your eternal soul.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    Well, they're [Chaos] spells I believe. So willingly accepting them may have some lasting moral implications depending on DMs.

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    Doc Roc's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    So yeah, experience costs can be trivialized, but with a gentle hand at the wheel, it shouldn't be. The shuffle is expensive, painful, and involves tainting your soul. Play with the taint mechanics from UA, and ban the classes that benefit from them.

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    Gorbash's Avatar

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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    Or, you know, just don't allow it as a DM.

    It bugs me when people cry wolf at certain cheesy builds and tricks when 99% wouldn't think twice about just flat out saying 'no' to them.
    Common sense is not so common.

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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Talic View Post
    No, the real shenanigans is when you have several racial feats, and you shuffle them, and find a way to restore them. Then it's infinite feats.

    Martial Weapon Prof: Longbow > Embrace to Tainted.
    Taint > Shun to anything.
    Elder Evil devotion allows this. Theoretically, you can devote yourself, DCFS the feats, undevote yourself, redevote yourself, and repeat ad nausea. 5 feats every time for a 20th level character.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: What is a "Chaos Shuffle?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbash View Post
    Or, you know, just don't allow it as a DM.

    It bugs me when people cry wolf at certain cheesy builds and tricks when 99% wouldn't think twice about just flat out saying 'no' to them.
    Then they just snap at you and go "You think this is broken? Well let me tell you..."

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