Question about Eldritch Glaive

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Okay, I'm wanting to build a Warlock (Hellfire being specifically and explicitly BANNED) which uses Eldritch Glaive. However, I'm also wanting to be able to attack adjacent squares with my glaive.

Is there a way to do this? IIRC, Short Haft (assuming the feat even works with EG) takes an action to perform, which I wouldn't have if I've got my Glaive out (full round action).

This is at 3rd level, although we may be advancing further. Complete series and Core + PhB II and ToB are allowed. Specific things from other sources may be included, although I have to ask first.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

At third level, you might as well cast defensively and fire your lasers...

Hm. I will think on this.

[Tempest Fennac]

I assume you can attack someone who's next to you due to how it's only glaive-shaped rather then being a physical glaive.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

At third level, you might as well cast defensively and fire your lasers...

Hm. I will think on this.

I am planning for later levels. Lasers don't get iterative attacks. Plus a three-foot halfling wielding a six-foot lightsabre-looking glaive makes me giggle when I try to picture it.

[Burley]

Although I am probably not correct when I say this, but doesn't the description say you can attack adjacent to you? I swear that it did...
In any case, once you hit 6th level and can fly, you'll neven need to worry about that. You'll always be safe from ten feet above.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wear armor spikes or get a natural weapon and you'll still threaten adjacent squares, but you'll still have to 5 ft. adjust to hit them with your eldritch glaive since you attack with it as though wielding a reach weapon. Also, don't forget to two-handed Power Attack with that thing.

[Burley]

According to the Complete Arcane, you treat weapon-like spells as light/finessable weapons. You can't Power Attack with a light weapon.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wear armor spikes or get a natural weapon and you'll still threaten adjacent squares, but you'll still have to 5 ft. adjust to hit them with your eldritch glaive since you attack with it as though wielding a reach weapon. Also, don't forget to two-handed Power Attack with that thing.

I don't just want to provoke, I want to be able to attack in melee. Having a Strength of 6, armor spikes won't do me much good. Plus you can't put them on mithral chain.

But yes, you quoted the reason why I can't just attack with it in melee.. the phrase as though wielding a reach weapon which means it hits 10' but not 5'.

And it is also correct that I cannot PA with a Glaive, assuming I had the Str requirement, because it is considered to be a light weapon.

[Person_Man]

Options:

Buy a wand of Enlarge Person. This doubles your reach (though it also doubles the empty no reach "donut."

Get movement as a Swift Action, or just get in a wagon and have someone/thing pull you around.

Use battlefield control. If you can lock down your enemy, they won't be standing next to you.

Put these together, and your problem should be solved.

[Eldariel]

Is there a way to do this? IIRC, Short Haft (assuming the feat even works with EG) takes an action to perform, which I wouldn't have if I've got my Glaive out (full round action).

Using Short Haft is a Swift Action to switch so it works. And given that Eldritch Glaive is treated as a reach weapon and Short Haft says "any reach weapon other than Spiked Chain or Whip", you should be ok. The problem is, this requires Weapon Focus in a reach weapon to pick.

Eldritch Glaive technically isn't a weapon and whether you can pick Weapon Focus in it (you can WF Eldritch Blast, of course, but it's not exactly a reach weapon) is questionable. Of course, you can pick any reach weapon to get Short Haft; would just be cool if the prerequisite did something. And this is all splitting hairs.


But short version, Short Haft should work and seems like the only option within those books. You can't pick it quite yet though (requires BAB +3).

[Darrin]

Okay, I'm wanting to build a Warlock (Hellfire being specifically and explicitly BANNED) which uses Eldritch Glaive. However, I'm also wanting to be able to attack adjacent squares with my glaive.

The feat you need is called Shorten Grip, from Dragon Compendium.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-...orten_Grip,DC1

It allows you to threaten/attack adjacent squares with a -2 penalty. It does not require an action.

Do you have a race yet? See if your DM will allow Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures. Transform into a sparrow (fine size, +6 Dex bonus, +8 Size bonus to AC, +8 size bonus to attacks). A sparrow with Eldritch Glaive, Shorten Grip, and Confound the Big Folk would be... interesting. It might also get a few books thrown at you.

Oh, something else you may want to explore with a Warlock... pick up a Wild Cohort as a mount. Eldritch Glaive can be used while mounted to get the equivalent of a full attack, even if your mount moves more than 5'. (Although with all-day flight, it's not like warlocks have movement issues.)

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Allowed ToB but not allowing Hellfire Warlock? okie dokey.

Short Haft may be ... interesting. To make it actually work within the rules, you may have to either do the following:

1 Level of Fighter to be proficient with Glaive, and have the bonus feat for the required Weapon Focus

"Waste" two feats on Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus and not lose a Warlock caster level...

Tough choice.

[Darrin]

"Waste" two feats on Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus and not lose a Warlock caster level...

Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment would allow you to pick up both martial weapon proficiency and weapon focus with one feat (War domain power). And there's at least one deity with glaive as a favored weapon: Wastri, demigod of self-deluded amphibian bigots. And while the note about PCs are not allowed to worship him is puzzling the heck out of me (huh? since when are deities NPC-only?), the Catalogues of Enlightenment do not require you to worship Wastri to pick up his War domain.

[Eldariel]

Allowed ToB but not allowing Hellfire Warlock? okie dokey.

Short Haft may be ... interesting. To make it actually work within the rules, you may have to either do the following:

1 Level of Fighter to be proficient with Glaive, and have the bonus feat for the required Weapon Focus

"Waste" two feats on Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus and not lose a Warlock caster level...

Tough choice.

Longspear is a Simple reach weapon; Warlock can just pick up Weapon Focus: Longspear and then qualify for Short Haft through that (you can use Short Haft with any weapons regardless of what you have Weapon Focus in). Although a non-******** DM would allow Weapon Focus: Eldritch Glaive to exist...

[Oslecamo]

Do you have a race yet? See if your DM will allow Hengeyokai from Oriental Adventures. Transform into a sparrow (fine size, +6 Dex bonus, +8 Size bonus to AC, +8 size bonus to attacks). A sparrow with Eldritch Glaive, Shorten Grip, and Confound the Big Folk would be... interesting. It might also get a few books thrown at you.

A sparrow who flies inocently next to you, and then unleashes a giant laser blade from his mouth? HELL YEAH!

Thank you very much for giving me a great idea for monsters to throw at the party.

[Stycotl]

wait until you are higher level and then get this guy!
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...82#post4528682

[Eldariel]

A sparrow who flies inocently next to you, and then unleashes a giant laser blade from his mouth? HELL YEAH!

Thank you very much for giving me a great idea for monsters to throw at the party.

For some reason, that reminded me of this.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Short Haft won't work with Eldritch Glaive because it requires an action, but using Eldritch Glaive requires a full-round action, so it won't work.

I'll see if my GM is cool with the Dragon Mag feat. Given that it requires a feat, and that it gives a penalty on close-range attacks, he'll probably allow it, so that may be my solution.

[AstralFire]

Full-round actions do not consume swift actions in 3.5. They do in Saga.

[Eldariel]

Short Haft won't work with Eldritch Glaive because it requires an action, but using Eldritch Glaive requires a full-round action, so it won't work.

You can take a swift action in lieu of a full-round action. Full-round action only covers your standard and move action.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You can take a swift action in lieu of a full-round action. Full-round action only covers your standard and move action.

Thought Short Haft was a standard action...

[Sinfire Titan]

Thought Short Haft was a standard action...

Let me put it this way: The feat would suck if it cost a Standard action to use. This is the same reason why the Fighter variants in PH2 are bad choices (they can't be used with a Full Attack).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Weapon Finesse: You can treat touch spells as light weapons and use your Dexterity modifier (instead of your Strength modifier) on your touch attack rolls with such spells.

You can treat it as a light weapon, but you don't have to treat it as a light weapon. You can't use both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse, but if you're not choosing to treat it as a light weapon then you can indeed PA with it. It doesn't do much good for this character, but PA is what makes Eldritch Glaive and similar touch abilities (Fire Lash) capable of doing considerable damage.

I'd still say just 5 ft. step back to attack foes who get too close, it doesn't take any feats or items to do.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You can treat it as a light weapon, but you don't have to treat it as a light weapon. You can't use both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse, but if you're not choosing to treat it as a light weapon then you can indeed PA with it. It doesn't do much good for this character, but PA is what makes Eldritch Glaive and similar touch abilities (Fire Lash) capable of doing considerable damage.

I'd still say just 5 ft. step back to attack foes who get too close, it doesn't take any feats or items to do.

I'm simply worried that I won't be *able* to step back in some situations. However, it does seem a heavy price to pay...

So, Quicken and Empower SLA are both effectively required feats (assuming one can use Empower on your EB), what other feats are good for a 'lock? Point-Blank and Precise Shot are both good ideas since I plan on using my EB extensively.

We've GOT a Sorcerer in the party, however, he spontaneously decided to dip a level of Ranger, with the clear intent of going to Arcane Archer, so I'm going to have to try and make up for the lack of arcane might by choosing my Invocations carefully. Chilling Tentacles, of course, is made of Win, but that's a long ways off. I'm considering Darkness, but that would hamper my allies as readily as my opponents.

I'm strongly considering See the Unseen as a form of See Invis, and to offset the lack of racial Darkvision. Earthen Grasp doesn't seem like a very good battlefield control spell, so I will likely hold off on battlefield control for a while. We've got both a Paladin and a Fighter who are rather good at battlefield control, at least for this level.

[Tokiko Mima]

You can treat it as a light weapon, but you don't have to treat it as a light weapon. You can't use both Power Attack and Weapon Finesse, but if you're not choosing to treat it as a light weapon then you can indeed PA with it.

Oddly, there are Weapon Finesse-able weapons that you can Power Attack with. The Spiked Chain, for example. Crazy loopholes!

[Keld Denar]

Also, Elven Courtblade, and, IIRC, the Elven Thinblade as well (which is 1handed and finessable)

[Tokiko Mima]

So, Quicken and Empower SLA are both effectively required feats (assuming one can use Empower on your EB), what other feats are good for a 'lock? Point-Blank and Precise Shot are both good ideas since I plan on using my EB extensively.

Actually, the Rod of Magical Precision takes care of Precise Shot, and gives you the benefits of Improved Precise Shot 3/day. You can save your precious feat slots that way.

There's also Maximize SLA Feat in Complete Arcane I believe. You can even combine Empower+Maximize into the same blast. If you plan on an invisibility invocation, you can't lose with Darkstalker. If you pick up the Charm Invocation and are willing to dip into Mindbender for a single level, you can be your parties 24/7 telepathic communications provider. Even more fun with the Mind Sight feat that lets you see any thinking creatures in your telepathic radius.

If you plan on using any Flight invocation at all, Flyby Attack is also a fun feat. Just fly around a corner, blast, then fly back behind cover.

I generally use Weapon Finesse, because it lets me dump Strength for the most part.

[Bugbeartrap]

At higher levels, I prefer maximize over empower, because who wants to actually roll 13d6 4 times and add it up? Not much is really gonna be surviving a maximized eldritch glaive anyway.

I also think that the point blank shot/precise shot line are generally not worth it by higher levels, so don't take them unless you know you can retrain or will never get past level 8.

Something I found interesting with my warlock was Beguiling Influence invocation, coupled with the feat Imperious Command, with the skill trick Never Outnumbered. Kinda Badass... but I think you take penalties to Intimidate for being small, no?

Oh, and Flyby Attack. You're Magic, so show it off.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Actually, the Rod of Magical Precision takes care of Precise Shot, and gives you the benefits of Improved Precise Shot 3/day. You can save your precious feat slots that way.

There's also Maximize SLA Feat in Complete Arcane I believe. You can even combine Empower+Maximize into the same blast. If you plan on an invisibility invocation, you can't lose with Darkstalker. If you pick up the Charm Invocation and are willing to dip into Mindbender for a single level, you can be your parties 24/7 telepathic communications provider. Even more fun with the Mind Sight feat that lets you see any thinking creatures in your telepathic radius.

If you plan on using any Flight invocation at all, Flyby Attack is also a fun feat. Just fly around a corner, blast, then fly back behind cover.

I generally use Weapon Finesse, because it lets me dump Strength for the most part.

Can you quote sources for Rod of Magical Precision and Darkstalker? I doubt my GM will let me pull out Lords of Madness for Mindsight.

[Tokiko Mima]

Can you quote sources for Rod of Magical Precision and Darkstalker? I doubt my GM will let me pull out Lords of Madness for Mindsight.

Darkstalker is also Lords of Madness. It's a nice feat that protects an invisible person from blindsight/sense, tremorsense, and most other detection methods. If a Warlock is going to be invisible a lot, they might as well get as much as they can out of it.

The Rod of Magical Precision is in Complete Mage. There are a couple other very handy Warlock Magic items in there as well, such as Horizon Goggles. Those are like having the Far Shot feat, except you can apply it to ranged touch attacks (+50% to all ranges.)

There are also Rods of Eldritch Power, which mimic a Blast Shape or Eldritch Essence a certain number of times (5?) a day. Those kinda behoove you to choose only Blast Shapes and Eldritch Essences you'll use all the time or sink your Invocations into ones you can't get from a magic item.

And if you'll be using a lot of Rods or other magic items, Quickdraw is a solid feat choice.