Stance for lvl 4 (ToB)

[oxinabox]

War blades get their second stance at lvl 4 (maneuver lvl 2)
But there is no lvl 2 stances at all.
So they have to take another lvl 1.

This seems kinda stupid.
if it intentional, do does anyone think?

A guess it must be intentional.
since Sword sage and Crusader get theirs at Manouve lvl 1.


I might as my DM to hombrew me one as per page 46.
don't know if he will.
I'll ask him if my character could have taken some indepenednt study (the build started at lvl 6, so i had some backstory)
what do people think would be a good maneuver lvl 2 stance?
what do you think about the best lvl 1 stance>
currently i have the one that gives Scent (that i took at lvl one, then retrained the original tiger claw attack at lvl 4 (by RAW this is almost explictly allowed))

This is for a Fullblade weilding, medium INT, high STR, Low CON, lowish AC (17), warblade.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, it's kinda silly; the simple solution is to dip two levels in another class to get IL 5 for the new stance. But yeah, there was a Cust Serv answer where the Stance tables were brought into question and the answer was pretty much "we didn't really think about it".

That said, 1st level has a bunch of great stances: Punishing Stance, Leading the Charge, Hunter's Sense & Blood in the Water are all quality and Bolstering Voice, Stonefoot Stance and Stance of Clarity have their uses too so being forced to pick two of them isn't really that bad. I'd probably have at least Leading the Charge and Hunter's Sense anyways (although if I was going for Hearing the Air later, I'd probably pick up Punishing Stance instead; it's a great low level combat stance and handy even later on for TWFers)


If I had a tripper/bull rusher (Dungeoncrasher, for example), I'd probably pick up Stonefoot Stance. If I had a charger, I'd probably pick up Leading the Charge. If I had a TWF Crit Monkey, I'd probably pick up Blood in the Water and Punishing Stance, etc.

[AslanCross]

It's intentional as far as I can tell. You're going to have to take a couple of levels in another class to boost your IL enough to take a 3rd Level stance at Lv 4.

Honestly, Stance of Clarity is not as bad as it looks. Punishing Stance is a warblade favorite, and it gives -2 AC penalty against everyone. Stance of Clarity gives you -2 AC against everyone but one target, against whom you get +2. In one-monster fights it 's pretty good.

[AstralFire]

I just let Warblades take their third level stance right then anyway. It hardly breaks things.

[oxinabox]

well since the Customer servise responce apprarnlt said it was something they forgot.
and since the rules explictiy state that you an create new stances.
I have a good case to ask the DM to homebrew.
So homebrew suggestions?

If he says no (which i wouldn't mind)
then I'll take punishing Stike.
Lowers my AC to 15. but +1d6 attack
But There's a sourcer and a wildmage to buff me with mage armour.
and i have 56 HP, and there a cleric.
(well hopefully I don't have to ask the wildmage to buff me, last time he tried, he ended up learning every single one of my memories. (since then i've gained a lead helmet))

That would also put my attack damage into the relivily awesome (or insane)
2d8 +5d6 +1d4 +9 (when i use BoneCrusher manouver)

[Glimbur]

There's a sourcer and a wildmage to buff me with mage armour.

Off topic, but why are you not wearing regular armor?

[Fixer]

Off topic, but why are you not wearing regular armor?

Ask Elan.

With no armor (and no clothes) your AC goes through the roof and you are invisible.

[Irreverent Fool]

Off topic, but why are you not wearing regular armor?

Warblades get tumble as a class skill.

My warblade had a run-in with a ooze and lost his suit of plate. Luckily, we had recently come into the possession of several bolts of cloth-of-gold and a pair of bracers of armor +8. It was toga time. I'd been investing heavily in Tumble and took the opportunity to to use it without the ACP from full plate. While avoiding attacks of opportunity isn't that big of a deal, the images of the generally slow-moving defense-focused soldier suddenly lunging around the battlefield in no armor like a madman was much enjoyed by the group. It was a memorable few sessions.

On topic: While a two-level dip doesn't hurt a warblade (or any martial adept) quite as badly as a caster, you still end up one level behind in maneuver progression which can suck when you're rocking level 6 maneuvers and looking at the level 7 maneuvers you could have had. I recall facing this same dilemma with my warblade and eventually just sticking with warblade so I could get to greater insightful strike sooner.

obnoxious
sig

[Amiria]

It is the same dilemma with Crusaders and their 3rd stance (which they get at Lvl 8 so they can't select tasty 5th-level stances). I have a Crusader who is Lvl 6 (+1 LA) and after the 7th level in Crusader (Divine Surge, oh yeah !) I'll multiclass into Fighter for 2 levels. Or one Fighter and then one Warblade¹ level.

¹ = only if I can get a 3rd level Warblade stance then, I remember that there was some confusion if the "only 1st level stance at 1st level in a martial adept class"-rule only applies to your 1st martial adept class.

@v Yeah, that too. It really forces them to multiclass a bit unless they take one or two stances with a feat. And crusaders are really feat-starved, their first two feats are probably used for Extra Granted Maneuver and Power Attack or Stone Power 95% of the time.

[hamishspence]

Their last stance comes the level before they qualify for 8th level stances- so, unless you houserule, or take a stance feat, a pure Crusader can't qualify for an 8th level stance at all.

Which is really odd.

[Eldariel]

Their last stance comes the level before they qualify for 8th level stances- so, unless you houserule, or take a stance feat, a pure Crusader can't qualify for an 8th level stance at all.

Which is really odd.

Especially considering the existence of Immortal Fortitude, a level 8 stance from school exclusive to Crusaders...

[oxinabox]

I am wearing armour, but it's not enchanted.
Isn't mage armour an enhancement bonus?
Like magic weapon?

I know braces of armour are a armour bonus and don't stack with armour.

Warblades do have tumble as a classskill.
But they don't have heavy armour (@Irreverent Fool: MItheral Plate? or did you take lvls, then multicalss, or a feat?)
They also don't have perform weapondrill Wich suits them so perfectly.
i crossclassed it

Party is shopping.
me: "Did we spend 4 hours shopping?"
DM "yeah about that"
Me - I hadn't bought anything. "I spend 20 minutes of each hour outside performing weapon drills. ooh! 20's, i earn 3d10 sp! Yay!"

[Darrin]

War blades get their second stance at lvl 4 (maneuver lvl 2)
But there is no lvl 2 stances at all.
So they have to take another lvl 1.

This seems kinda stupid.
if it intentional, do does anyone think?

A guess it must be intentional.
since Sword sage and Crusader get theirs at Manouve lvl 1.

I'm not sure if the designers intended it that way or not, but if you want to pick up higher level stances as a warblade or crusader (without multiclassing), then you have to spend a feat on Martial Stance at ECL 6 (or 9 or 18 or whenever).

With Warblades I don't mind so much because two of the level 1 stances are better than most of the level 3s: Punishing Stance and Leading the Charge. I'd rather have those two than any of the level 3 stances.

[tyckspoon]

I am wearing armour, but it's not enchanted.
Isn't mage armour an enhancement bonus?
Like magic weapon?

No, it's a standard Armor bonus. The spell you're thinking of is Magic Vestments, which does exactly the same thing for armor and shields as (Greater) Magic Weapon does for weapons.

[Saph]

Yeah, it's annoying. Warblades in particular really benefit from the level 3 Absolute Steel stance (+10 speed, +2 AC as long as you move) so I often end up earmarking my level 6 feat for it.

But apart from that, as everyone has been saying, it's not like there's any shortage of good 1st-level stances either.

- Saph

[oxinabox]

No, it's a standard Armor bonus. The spell you're thinking of is Magic Vestments, which does exactly the same thing for armor and shields as (Greater) Magic Weapon does for weapons.

ahh, my mistake.
I dobt any of our psion, cleric, wildmage or sorcer took it. (or there equivient power)
Looks like it's back to relying on plans B and C.
Plan B) Cleric! I need a Cleric!
PLan C) Kill Everything!

[woodenbandman]

Isn't there a stance at this level that gets you scent? Scent is useful.

[Epinephrine]

Hunter's Sense is amazing. Detecting enemies without LoS? Identifying folks under veils? Someone loitering in the shadows - is it a human or a goblin? The nose knows! I've been caught up by the scent ability several times as a DM - it reveals the presence of invisible folks, unmasks those trying to hide their forms and so on.

[oxinabox]

Isn't there a stance at this level that gets you scent? Scent is useful.

I took that as my first lvl 1 stance.
I love scent.

almost fought a battle purly by smell. a enemy PC (it was a two party game) had blinded our whole party.
by i was a hound archlon.
I would have won if the large addymanium constucthand have had reach...