Prestige Tiers

[kpenguin]

Is there a tier list for prestige classes or are there too many to make one of?

[Dr_Emperor]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=5198.0 have a link its not done

[Xaklin_Magewrit]

To many I guess but for me tier one would be
Incantrix, Archmage, Planer Sheperd, Beholder Mage, Frenzied Berzerker, and shadowcraft Mage that some really powerful class.

[AstralFire]

Frenzied Berserker is not on the same tier as Planar Shepherd for the exact same reason that Barbarians are not on the same tier as Druid.

[13_CBS]

Huh...the list claims that Assassin bumps the character up a tier. I thought the Assassin PrC sucked.

[Toliudar]

I'd have put the Initiate of the Seven Veils and Incantatrix way ahead of Archmage.

[9mm]

Huh...the list claims that Assassin bumps the character up a tier. I thought the Assassin PrC sucked.

it does, but spell casting is spell casting, and since your most likely spell-less before entering... well yeah.

[Gaiyamato]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=5198.0 have a link its not done

I disagree with more than 3/4 of where those classes are placed in that list.

[Myrmex]

Tier 0
Illithid Savant, Beholder Mage

Nothing compares to the raw, destructive power of these classes.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Zeal's Tier System for PrCs. Pretty close to accurate. Not perfect, but PrCs are even harder to rank than base classes.

[Sinfire Titan]

Tier 0
Illithid Savant, Beholder Mage

Nothing compares to the raw, destructive power of these classes.

It isn't a number, it's a + or a - to the effective Tier of the assumed entry. The assumed entry for Savant and Beholder Mage is Mind Flayer X and Beholder X, not Psion 11 or Wizard X.

I disagree with more than 3/4 of where those classes are placed in that list.

Which ones? We are accepting arguments for each side, you just need to provide a solid reason.

Frenzied Berserker is not on the same tier as Planar Shepherd for the exact same reason that Barbarians are not on the same tier as Druid.

It isn't. However for a Barbarian 7, FB is as tempting as Planar Shepard is to Druid.



Let me go into depth here. The original Tiers thread assumed nothing other than base class features and minimum to average build optimization, but left out multiclassing. It listed the tiers of each class individually, giving some a Tier of 1 and others a Tier of 5 or even 6.

This list is a list of modifiers, and not a measurement of that class' base power. It displays which PrCs apply a positive power boost to a base class used to enter.

For a Barbarian 2/Totemist 4, the Totem Rager is a +1 or +0. Barbarian is Tier 4, while the Totemist is Tier 3. Average tier of 3.5, rounding down because it's a multiclass build (and multiclassing between base classes takes considerable effort to avoid weakening your build). Totem Rager modifies this by +0, by raising the Barbarian portion of the build to be competent and continuing to boost the Totemist side.

Likewise, a Wizard (Tier 1) who takes levels in Shadowcraft Mage is going to go up 2 Tiers worth of power, effectively turning his class into a Tier expressed by a negative number (showing that this particular build is off of the chart in terms of power, as Tiers above Tier 1 are borderline-theoretical in optimization, and are easily capable of breaking the game with a sneeze, while Tiers lower than 6 show that the class isn't capable of competing or contributing to an encounter at all).

For a negative example, I turn to the Incarnate and Necrocarnate PrC. The Incarnate is normally a Tier 4 or Tier 3 (depending on the amount of optimization) class. Let's assume the player is making one the smart way, and that he is effectively Tier 3.

The Necrocarnate PrC weakens a build that it is used on, lowering it's Tier by 2. The above Incarnate character would go from being a Tier 3 character to a Tier 5 character, as the Necrocarnate is strictly inferior to normal Incarnate levels (Necrocarnate slows advancement a full level or more, and provides no essentia at the beginning of each day unless you kill something and spend a full minute extracting its soul).


If it says -2 Tiers, any character who takes levels in that class gets weaker than if he had stayed in his original class.

The inverse is also true: If it says +2 Tiers, then the PrC makes a character who takes that class stronger by 2 full Tiers.



Note that the Tier of a PrC doesn't mean each PrC in that Tier is as powerful as the next: its quite clear to anyone who is experienced with 3.5 that the Planar Shepard is far stronger than the Frenzied Berserker. The PrC Tier rating just means that this PrC makes the base classes used to enter it stronger or weaker, as appropriate.

Theoretically speaking, the Shadowcraft Mage provides no benefit to a Paladin who manages to meet the requirements because he can't make use of the class features due to spell issues. In such a case, the PrC's Tier gets overridden by the base class' Tier, effectively inverting the Tier of the PrC entirely. Exceptions apply; just because the Wild Shape Ranger can't abuse the spellcasting abilities of the Planar Shepard doesn't mean Planar Shepard's Tier should be altered. Rather, the Wild Shape Ranger is capable of making good use of its other class features, and can afford to neglect the spellcasting portion of the class. Because of this, a Wild Shape Ranger 10/Planar Shepard 10 would be a Tier 1 build (Wild Shape Ranger is Tier 3, and Planar Shepard raises the effective Tier of the build by 2).

[Myrmex]

It isn't a number, it's a + or a - to the effective Tier of the assumed entry. The assumed entry for Savant and Beholder Mage is Mind Flayer X and Beholder X, not Psion 11 or Wizard X.

With zeal's methodology, sure.

[Sinfire Titan]

With zeal's methodology, sure.

The first posted link is a link to an identical chart made by Zeal, just reposted by someone else and filled out. Zeal gave the OP of that thread the green light.

[Indon]

Zeal's methodology does seem the most solid for rating prestige classes, since it depends on who you entered the prestige class with, and some can be entered by large numbers of diverse classes.