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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Tempest Fennac's Avatar

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    Default Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Is there a way to reload Slings as a Free action. I was just looking over the Rapid Reload feat and I found it strange that it can't be used with slings due to there not being any obvious balance issues with the feat being applied to that weapon.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest Fennac View Post
    Is there a way to reload Slings as a Free action. I was just looking over the Rapid Reload feat and I found it strange that it can't be used with slings due to there not being any obvious balance issues with the feat being applied to that weapon.
    Just make the Rapid Reload Sling feat by crossing out crossbow and writing sling. The reason the feat is not for slings is because I don't think the designers thought actually any mid or higher level character would be using a sling for damage...
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Thanks (that makes sense).
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    IIRC, a variant Bloodstorm Blade (see adaptation section) allows one to load sling as a free action with one hand.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    That's an interresting idea (sadly that PrC isn't really practical for every class so I'd probably use HamsterOfTheGod's idea if I could).
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Which idea is this?

    Hmm... Slings require something more than a free action to load. haha... whoops. I'll have to remember that if any of my players ever uses a sling.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    I was refering to Hamster suggesting merely applying Rapid Reload to slings while ignoring the "crossbow only" requirement.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Slings can actually be quite decent, in a couple of specific situations . . .
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    Tempest Fennac's Avatar

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    What are those situations, Saph? I'm curious due to how I've only used them with Druids before.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    It's arguable if a Hulking Hurler polymorphed into a rubber band counts as an epic slingshot.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Slings do have a few reasonable advantages. In fact, they are one of my favorite ranged weapons.

    They are simple, so most characters can use them.
    They deal a different damage type than most projectile weapons.
    They have a better range than most other bludgeoning ranged weapons.
    Strength bonus can be applied to damage unlike most projectile weapons.

    They do have their disadvantages though too. Namely...

    They have small damage die.
    Their ammo is heavy (1/2 pound sling bullets seems a little extreme to me!)
    They take a move to reload.

    A situation when I've found having a sling quite handy was when my party was being chased by a giant skeleton. We had a big lead, but wanted to take it out so we turned around and opened fire on it. Most others pulled bows, and got through only a couple of points on average. My sling (in the hands of a character with a moderate strength) was doing much more. Even if someone had thought to bring along some throwing hammers or something, they would have had to wait until it was practically on top of them before beginning the attack due to the range problems. I admit this was a pretty unusual set of circumstances, but the point still stands.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    I'd mainly use them for overcoming DR as well, dariathalon. (I take it your DM wouldn't let you use Rapid Reload with that weapon, right?)
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Don't know. I didn't ask. The sling was primarily a backup weapon for that character (as it is for most of my characters that have used them), so I didn't bother investing any feats in its use.

    When I DM I know that I'd allow a character to take rapid reload for a sling.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Another possible solution: Take Quickdraw and buy a few dozen slings. Load the slings before battle, put them in your pack or wherever they are easy to grab. Free action to draw the (loaded) sling, attack, and drop it as a free action. For multiple attacks, draw a fresh sling as a free action.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    In that skeleton example, magic stone oil would also be handy. Oiled bullets will do 2d6+2 damage against undead before strength is applied against undead. My archer characters always have a sling, some bullets, and some magic stone oil for DR situations.

    Also, as a thrown weapon (despite having a launching device), the halfling attack bonus applies.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest Fennac View Post
    What are those situations, Saph? I'm curious due to how I've only used them with Druids before.
    They're useful at low levels as a backup ranged weapon for high-Str characters. You have to pay 400 GP to add a +4 Strength bonus onto a bow; a sling does it for free.

    Also, there's a very nice item in the Magic Item Compendium called the Stunshot Sling, for a price of about 8,000. Three times per day, you can force a creature hit by it to make a Fort save or be stunned. The best part? The DC of the Fort save is set by your attack roll. If your high-Dex Ranger rolls a 30 to hit? The target needs to make a DC 30 Fort save. Even a hill giant will have trouble with that. :)

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    I thought reloading a sling was part of its attack action, the same way reloading a bow is part of its attack action? That way you can get all your iterative attacks in a round?

    Or did the rules suddenly change and you can only fire a bow once per round without a feat?
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Loading a sling is a move action according to http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Sling . That enhancement sounds neat, Saph.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Ever used a proper sling?
    Loading as a move action seems silly to me. Aiming and shooting with them is much harder, reloading can be done in the blink of an eye.
    If I was a DM I'd just simply say it reloads as a free action anyway. :P
    Last edited by Gaiyamato; 2009-07-31 at 07:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Quote Originally Posted by dariathalon View Post
    Their ammo is heavy (1/2 pound sling bullets seems a little extreme to me!)
    Seems high. Greek sling bullets are 1"-1.5" long lead elipsoids. Based on images, width is about 5/9 of length, and lead is ~11.35g/cm^3 at normal temperatures/pressures. Depth is a little less than width, maybe 3/4 of width.

    In cm, that's ~2.5-3.8cm long by ~1.4-2.1cm wide, by 1-1.6cm. That's pretty close to the wikipedia estimate ("Almond shaped leaden sling-bullets were typically about 35 mm (1 3/8 in) long and about 20 mm (3/4 in) wide").

    The wikipedia article suggests a weight of about an ounce, but this isn't compatible with the measurements. An elipsoid 3.5cmx2cmx1.6cm is about 6 cubic centimeters, weighing around 66g, which is closer to 2.4oz. So 6-7 of them per pound.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    That sounds about right to me as well.

    I'm not sure what they were looking at when they came up with sling stats for 3.x
    Must have been the mother of all slings. lol.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Sling lovers should take a look on the skiprock sling and skiprock ammunitions in in Races of Faerun.

    A x4 crit on a sling is not so bad.

    And the skiprock bounces on an additional target.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    As a common house rule I allow the Rapid Reload and Manyshot feats to apply to slings, for free action reloading and slinging up to four bullets in the sling pouch. I also treat great crossbows (exotic weapon from Races of Stone) the same as heavy crossbows for feats and weapon special abilities that specify heavy crossbows. Both of these weapons got pretty shabby treatment in the D&D rules.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Make sure to be a halfling and take the 1st and 3rd level halfling Rogue substitution levels from RotW, which grant extra Sneak Attack dice with slings and thrown weapons.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Slings are usually the best low level option as a backup range weapon because they add strength to damage without any special stuff. If you make them viable at high levels via faster reloading, be sure to consider balance issues against other weapons, if any.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiyanwang View Post
    Sling lovers should take a look on the skiprock sling and skiprock ammunitions in in Races of Faerun.

    A x4 crit on a sling is not so bad.

    And the skiprock bounces on an additional target.

    Combining skiprocks with Storm of Throws is both effective and hilarious.

    And who care what sling ammo weighs? I usually rule that a little Searching or Survival will find you a decent amount of appropriately sized rocks.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    Using rocks instead of bullets made for slings do less damage and are less accurate.

    For a good slinging PRC w/ skipping stones, you have to look no further than to Rich's Gaming section on the left side, where there's the Halfling Skipping Stone Champion. I guess it's written in 3.0, when slings didn't require the move action reload and the example has ammunition and the ranged delivery system stacking enhancement bonuses but it's still good stuff, regardless.

    For another awesome sling, Weapons of Legacy has the Sling of the Dire Wind, which raises the damage of the sling as you progress till you're effectively slinging with a Colossal sling with adamantine bullets, which I find incredibly amusing. XD

    I do agree on the Rapid Reload for slings, as halfling slingers need some love, too.

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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    That PrC is quite neat. (It would be fun to make a Halfling Barbarian/Halfling substitute Rogue using that PrC).
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    I hope by Barbarian you mean using the Whirling Frenzy variant, as that just seems to be more in line w/ a slinger.

    Off topic but I wonder whether Skipping Stone Champion and the Master Thrower's Weak Spot stack. You'd lose your Strength bonus, which is a shame.

    ALSO:
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Another possible solution: Take Quickdraw and buy a few dozen slings. Load the slings before battle, put them in your pack or wherever they are easy to grab. Free action to draw the (loaded) sling, attack, and drop it as a free action. For multiple attacks, draw a fresh sling as a free action.
    You, sir, have evidently never seen a sling before, as slings are typically a piece of cloth to hold a bullet in. Fancier ones, like in the pic below, have an actual pouch for holding the bullet and then just the strings to whirl the whole thing over your head before releasing at your intended target.



    Finally, now that I think of it, I can't see someone actually getting multiple attacks off with a sling realistically and not b/c of the reloading mechanism, which is silly. It's the whole getting each bullet up to speed so that it'll fly true, which I don't see happening unless you're hasted or something. Ah well, realism aside...

    Them's my 2 sling bullets. Take as you will.

    EDIT: I stand corrected, as a little Googling revealed http://slinging.org/ and also some vids on YouTube of modern slinging, which shows people launching a stone extremely quickly. The site details slingers firing faster than bowman and with longer range and superior accuracy, even somewhere describing how a well placed shot killing a horse =o! Critical hit, indeed.

    With a little practice, I could see those guys getting off multiple stones in a hurry, which makes the Rapid Reload and multiple attacks a possibility.
    Last edited by Cieyrin; 2009-08-01 at 10:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Faster sling reloading (3.5).

    I was thinking the Ferocity variant from Cityscape would be better (from what I can gather, it gives a Dex bonus in place of a Con bonus so it would work well for a sling-user).
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