Mage-on-Mage tactics

[Da Pwnzlord]

My DM has told me that our next session there will be a spellcasting competition.What are the best tactics to employ?



The challenge will be an areana style duel, one caster on one caster. No magic items, except for scrolls and wands, are allowed. I am a gestalt 7th level wizard. Any magic other then arcane is forbiddon, and no martial combat is allowed, so all the gestalt means for me in this context is that I have a few extra hitpoints and a slightly better BAB. There will be three encounters, (Provided I win them all) so I'll have to conserve my spells.


You basically challenge another caster to a duel, and then fight almost right away, so there will be very limited buff time. I'm thinking of having a Mage Armor running on me, but other stuff like Fly, Bear's Strength and Haste will probably run out before I find an opponent. My planned *Ultimate Combo* is Celerity+Evard's Black Tentacles. I'm a little fuzzy on the grappling rules (but isn't everybody? ) but being grappled should have a significant negative effect on somebodies ability to cast spells. The only problem is that I'll only be able to pull that off once. Would you wait until the last encounter, or hit as hard and fast as you can as long as you can?

One other tactics is spaming Ray of Stupidity at them. If they're a wizard, it shouldn't be long before they simply cast any more spells at me. If they're a sorcerer, they'll have dumped INT and they'll be in a coma before long.

What preemptive measure should I take? What tactics will be used against me, and how should I counter them? What other stratagies can I use?

[Milskidasith]

What are your specialty schools?

[Da Pwnzlord]

I am a Conjurer who banned Evocation and Necromancy.

[Milskidasith]

If you are a conjurer you get two castings of black tentacles... three if you have 18 intelligence. Stinking Cloud is also a very good option.

[woodenbandman]

Alter Self to something for more AC 'n junk, then summon allies while you absolutely spam web, cloudkill, and other stuff.

[Milskidasith]

He's a seventh level wizard... he can't cast cloudkill.

[holywhippet]

No melee, does that mean you can't summon creatures? What about indirected effects like the Aura of Menace from a lantern archon?

The main problem is you don't know what tactics your opponent will use - blasting spells won't help if your opponent just makes themself invisible. If you face a sorcerer they might just try to counterspell everything until you run out of things to cast.

[Keld Denar]

He with the best worded Contingency wins? Nah, that don't work cause you don't have Contingency.

Check out Enervation. Get a Rod of Split Ray. Celerity + Split Ray Enervation. 2d4 negative levels is rough to eat at level 7. Worst case, you knock out his 4th level spells. Best case, you turn him into a Wight.

EBT wouldn't be a good idea. You can get out of it with Heart of Water, or the uber cheap Anklets of Translocation or even Dimension Door.

Solid Fog is also a decent trick. Gives you 1-2 rounds to do something else, depending on whether the other guy wades through it or Dim Doors out. If the latter, you can really screw him with a precast Anticipate Teleport (lasts 24 hours). If he tries to port anywhere out of any trouble you give him, he'll be trapped for 1 round (2 with Dim Door!) and you can drop another nasty thing right where he is about to appear. Its 3rd level from the SpC.

Consider Focus'd Specialist Conjourer to get more 4th level spells, as well. The extra lower level spells will probably be a waste, but you'll have twice as many 4th level spells as an equal leveled vanillia wizard. If you don't, go Grey Elf with the Generalist ACF from Races of the Wild. That gives you 3 4th level spells and no banned schools.

[Siosilvar]

Alter Self to something for more AC 'n junk, then summon allies while you absolutely spam web, cloudkill, and other stuff.

Allies would arguably bring the forbidden "martial combat" into the fight.

[AmberVael]

My DM has told me that our next session there will be a spellcasting competition.What are the best tactics to employ?

Depends on what spells you have, and what precisely the competition is.

The challenge will be an areana style duel, one caster on one caster.

So... to the death? Until someone is disabled? Details (if any?)

I am a gestalt 7th level wizard.

Gestalt 7th level Wizard // ??? What are you gestalted with? It still matters, even if other magic and melee combat is not permitted.

I'm thinking of having a Mage Armor running on me...

It DOES have a nice long duration, but if you're wanting to conserve spell slots, and melee combat (and presumably ranged combat) is not permitted, chances are Mage Armor is going to be useless. People will shoot at you with reflex provokers, touch attacks, and auto hits. Mage Armor won't help much.
Still, it is just one level 1 spell slot, and it lasts 7 hours for you... couldn't hurt, really.

The only problem is that I'll only be able to pull that off once. Would you wait until the last encounter, or hit as hard and fast as you can as long as you can?

Unless you look like you're going to lose, I'd wait until the last encounter to pull out any big spells. If this is a typical arena, you're going to be fighting the hardest opponent last... so prepare for that.

One other tactics is spaming Ray of Stupidity at them. If they're a wizard, it shouldn't be long before they simply cast any more spells at me. If they're a sorcerer, they'll have dumped INT and they'll be in a coma before long.

If you're trying to conserve spell slots, don't spam.

What preemptive measure should I take? What tactics will be used against me, and how should I counter them? What other stratagies can I use?

What measures CAN you take? IE, what are your spells? Can you buy more spells/scrolls before the arena? What other resources might you have? How do you feel about cheating?

Edit:

...or the uber cheap Anklets of Translocation or even Dimension Door.

He said you get no magic items.

[Da Pwnzlord]

Summoned Creatures are fine. It's just that the casters can't go and whack eachother with sticks.


I'm Gestalted with Cleric.


I know all 3rd and lower spells (fluff reasons), but I only know Evard's Black Tentacles and Celerity. (Just leveled up)

[Milskidasith]

...You know there is a prestige class that's essentially "I gestalt with cleric" right? I don't see gestalting with cleric being that great of an idea; you should have gone Mystic Theurge and picked up Warblade or something with good BAB and HD. Then again, this may be core only, so warblade would be out. Still, being a wizard//cleric instead of a Mystic theurge//good BAB and HD is a bad idea.

Enervation is out; he banned necromancy.

[woodenbandman]

Yeah being 3 levels behind in both classes in gestalt is a great idea, especially since that combination is generally illegal. Dual Advancement PrCs aren't allowed in gestalt.

[Milskidasith]

How would it be behind, band? Assuming it wasn't banned (which it could be, but it's his DM's option), and he really wanted to gestalt cleric//wizard, he could have gestalted the first three levels (qualifying for the PrC) and then gone MT//something else and progressed both spellcasting classes.

[Da Pwnzlord]

I actually am a Wizard//Cleric 3 / Mystic Thurge//Artificer 4, but that just ends up turning the thread into an arguement about how broken I am, so I usually don't like to bring it up.

I have a couple days before the tourny, maybe I can learn a couple new spells?

[Milskidasith]

I actually am a Wizard//Cleric 3 / Mystic Thurge//Artificer 4, but that just ends up turning the thread into an arguement about how broken I am, so I usually don't like to bring it up.

I have a couple days before the tourny, maybe I can learn a couple new spells?

Learning more spells would probably be a good idea.

[AmberVael]

Mystic Theurge and similar classes are considered automatically banned in gestalt unless there is a DM say so. As most DMs only allow it under specific circumstances in gestalt unless they want things to go ape crazy, I think it won't be allowed.

Even if it was allowed, (or is allowed, apparently) the character is presumably already built, so your advice isn't really all that helpful (nor the topic of this thread).


So, as for useful advice, I recommend things like Nauseating Breath, Iron Bands, Web, and other things that target reflex and fortitude saves. Yeah, they can dimension door out of it and use Heart of Water, but those are precious resources that they only get once or twice and they will (hopefully) not be as high of level as you.

I recommend that you look into the Heart series of spells yourself. Heart of Earth and Heart of Water could be useful, and they have good durations. If you happen to have Extend Spell, you could cast them, rest and prepare new spells and still have about 5-6 hours of them left (assuming you're allowed to enter the arena with spells already cast).

[Da Pwnzlord]

I don't really worry about people running away from me with Dimension Door and such. Fleeing the areana is basically forfieting.

[AmberVael]

It isn't about fleeing the arena, it is about escaping lockdown spells like Web, Evard's Tentacles, and Iron Bands.

[Da Pwnzlord]

What book(s) are the Heart series from? They're not in the Spell Compendium, and I don't recognize them from PHB.

[Signmaker]

Anything wrong with a simple "Buff init to absurd levels, Maximized Empowered Lesser Orb of Acid"?

[AmberVael]

Complete Mage. It has some handy extra spells not in the SC.

^: The fact that a maximized empowered orb of acid is a level 6 spell slot?

[Signmaker]

Complete Mage. It has some handy extra spells not in the SC.

^: The fact that a maximized empowered orb of acid is a level 6 spell slot?

Arcane Thesis?

[AmberVael]

Arcane Thesis?

Do you think he has it already?

[Signmaker]

Just sayin. =/

[holywhippet]

It isn't about fleeing the arena, it is about escaping lockdown spells like Web, Evard's Tentacles, and Iron Bands.

Technically you could get around this using a Freedom of Movement spell scribed by a bard via use magical device. It would need to be scribed by a bard in order for it to be arcane magic.

[Eldritch_Ent]

Take spells to boost your initiative, like Nerveskitter, or even haste. All other things considered, he who wins initiative will probably win it if he's willing to drop a big spell on his opponent.

If the arena is large, buy a combat saddle and bring in a spectral mount. the mobility it gives is huge.

[ZeroNumerous]

Technically you could get around this using a Freedom of Movement spell scribed by a bard via use magical device. It would need to be scribed by a bard in order for it to be arcane magic.

Not a good idea. Bard requires 10th level to get 4th level spells, but Clerics can cast it at level 7. DC 30 vs DC 27.

Necessary buffs: Heart of Water and Protection from Alignment(Pick one, not terribly relevant which you choose). The first gives you one shot Freedom of Movement and the second makes you immune to domination/possession.

Actual battle-tactics wise, you have multiple ways of winning.

First, you're going to want your cleric-side to prepare No 2nd level spells other than Sound Burst and at least two castings of Bestow Curse. This will give you a Fort-Save or Stun for one round, letting you move into melee unimpeded. Simply cast Bestow Curse once, pick -6 to INT or CHA(depending on whether he's a wizard or sorcerer) and he's looking at maybe 12 INT/CHA left for his spells. Meaning you now never have to worry about 3rd level spells and all his DCs drop by 3. Simply cast it again, picking the same stat again on your next turn. He'll either be below 10 INT/CHA(remember, Bestow Curse decreases your stat by six rather than imposes a -6 penalty. Significant difference) or be significantly weakened.

Second, you could try using Sting Ray. For the next seven rounds he'll need to make a concentration check equal to 12 + Your INT + Spell Level or he loses the spell. On top of that he can only take a move or a standard action each turn. Downside: Will save each turn. Upside: Likely to screw him if he fails. Combine that with Evard's Black Tentacles, Bands of Steel or any other "I Win" button.

Third, you could simply overpower him. Clutch of Orcus + Sonorous Hum(both Cleric 3s) gives 1d12 damage/round(ha) and a Fort save or Stun/round(yes!). Warning: Is Evil. Combine with lesser orb of [Whatever] and Sound Burst to beat him into negative HP.

[The_JJ]

Arcane magic only, unfortunately.

I'd got for webbing and such, but I play fighters with high CHA so pay no heed to my optimizational advice.

[DragonBaneDM]

"Feeblemind.

Had a similiar dilemma with Dwarves vs. Elves two years ago. Feeblemind turned his wizard into a lizard proficient with a longbow."

I moronically said before I checked what his actual character was... Meh bad.