Damage types and creature subtypes [3.5]

[AslanCross]

Looking at some monsters, I noticed that the Abyssal Drake (Drc) has a breath weapon that deals half fire and half unholy damage. I imagined that the best handlers for this kind of creature would be devils, as they're immune to fire and have the (Evil) subtype.

While the SRD glossary says nothing about (Evil) creatures not taking damage from unholy attacks, would this be a sensible house rule, given that evil outsiders are practically made of evil?

[AstralFire]

I don't think so. Just because you're made of something doesn't mean that you're immune to it - I treat sacred damage (such as from Flame Strike or Consecrated spells) as purified of all of its baser elements, meaning that it can damage anything. It is fire in its purest form.

I would view unholy damage the same way.

I'm made of water, you shoot me with a firehose and hojeez that's gonna hurt.

[Saph]

Well, bear in mind that the main things creatures from the Abyss spend their time attacking, injuring, and maiming, are . . . other creatures from the Abyss.

Evil outsiders in D&D actually spend much more time fighting and hurting each other than they do fighting Good-aligned types. So I'm pretty sure the devils and demons themselves would want their weapons to work at full power on each other.

[PId6]

Evil outsiders in D&D actually spend much more time fighting and hurting each other than they do fighting Good-aligned types. So I'm pretty sure the devils and demons themselves would want their weapons to work at full power on each other.

And yet they all have DR/good, and I don't see fiends dropping good aligned weapons when I kill them.

[AstralFire]

Still, I find the idea that just because you're made of the same thing, you are always immune to its effects, to be ridiculous. My hands are made of flesh and bone, yet I am extremely effective at strangling other flesh and bone creatures.

I know these are creatures made partly out of energy and immorality made physical manifest, but still, there are lines to draw.

[Saph]

And yet they all have DR/good.

Demons don't all have DR/good. They have some combination of DR/good and DR/cold iron. Cold iron is much easier to get.

[PId6]

Demons don't all have DR/good. They have some combination of DR/good and DR/cold iron. Cold iron is much easier to get.

Yet many demons do require DR/good or DR/good and cold iron. Just like some devils have DR/good or silver, but many are either DR/good or DR/good and silver. So most fiends will need to get themselves some Holy weapons to damage their enemies properly, which is just weird.

[Yora]

Isn't the rule, that if you have DR, your natural attacks can harm creatures with the same type of DR?
So a demon with DR x/Evil can ignore the DR of other demons with DR x/Evil.

It all does apply only to weapon damage and not to breath weapons, but I'd say in this particular situation, it means the unholy breath attack does damage.

I usually treat DR not as a resistance that can be overcome by specific attacks, but rather as a general resistance against everything, except that some special substances deal extra damage.

[T.G. Oskar]

Isn't the rule, that if you have DR, your natural attacks can harm creatures with the same type of DR?
So a demon with DR x/Evil can ignore the DR of other demons with DR x/Evil.

It all does apply only to weapon damage and not to breath weapons, but I'd say in this particular situation, it means the unholy breath attack does damage.

Actually, in the case of moral-based DR or ethical-based DR, it's the opposite. Those monsters with DR/evil usually have good-aligned weapons, and those monsters with DR/good have usually evil-aligned weapons. Same with the bizarre instances of lawful and chaotic. However, most of the time, the weapons are usually indicated before the descriptions of the monster's attacks, as in "X creature's natural attacks are considered magic/good/evil/lawful/chaotic for purposes of bypassing damage reduction."

What I find bizarre is that lawful and chaotic-aligned natural weapons are practically useless, since silver weapons are usually meant for lawful creatures (with the rare exception of lycanthropes which may range to neutral) and cold iron weapons are usually meant for chaotic creatures (as virtually the larger bulk of demons and fey show). It's very rare to actually find a monster that has DR X/lawful or DR X/chaotic, instead of having DR X/silver or DR X/cold iron (mostly a reason why the lawful version of Holy Sword didn't exist until quite later on.

Though, IIRC, Slaads have DR X/lawful most of the time...

[Teron]

Isn't the rule, that if you have DR, your natural attacks can harm creatures with the same type of DR?
So a demon with DR x/Evil can ignore the DR of other demons with DR x/Evil.

That only applies to DR x/magic.

[daggaz]

And yet they all have DR/good, and I don't see fiends dropping good aligned weapons when I kill them.

Homebrew/houserule or whatever... still, in my worlds, anything with the evil subtype takes damage and penalties for even touching a good aligned weapon, and vice-versa..

[PId6]

Homebrew/houserule or whatever... still, in my worlds, anything with the evil subtype takes damage and penalties for even touching a good aligned weapon, and vice-versa..

Well, Holy weapons normally bestow 1 negative level to the user if they're evil, so it's already hard for fiends to use good-aligned weapons.

No wonder the Blood War lasted so long; the two sides could never penetrate each other's DR.

[Talic]

Well, Holy weapons normally bestow 1 negative level to the user if they're evil, so it's already hard for fiends to use good-aligned weapons.

No wonder the Blood War lasted so long; the two sides could never penetrate each other's DR.

At least, without a decent UMD check.

[AslanCross]

Hmm, AstralFire has a point. The only case where creatures are immune to damage from their subtype and expressly weak against the opposite is between [Fire] and [Cold].

Even [Good] and [Evil] creatures don't display this kind of vulnerability.

In the case of a [Fire] creature, everything hurts them except fire, but a cold attack hurts them even more. However, with moral/ethical subtypes, they resist everything except their moral/ethical opposite. Strange dichotomy, but that's RAW I guess.

[Eldan]

Well... at least when I outfit them, there rarely will be a devil without a cold iron weapon. I mean, they aren't stupid, and certainly have the money and resources to buy them. It's just that they don't necessarily need them when fighting humanoids, so they use the humanoidbane weapons instead of the demonbane cold iron ones.