New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 46
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    "You don't need strength as much as speed. We're fragile creatures. It takes less than a pound of pressure to cut skin."

    The dualist is a duelist with dual weapons. She is a melee fighter who relies on exceptionally quick reflexes above all else; as she parries and dodges, she waits for the opportune moment to strike - and then presses her advantage relentlessly.

    A dualist is a master of reactive combat. She uses the opportunities that her opponents offer to the fullest extent possible, and can even take advantage of opportunities that others would miss. For the dualist, the number of attacks of opportunity per round determines how often she can use a number of features, which may or may not actually involve attacking.

    Rogues can make excellent dualists, as they are already trained in the art of taking advantage of unsuspecting opponents, but may find the idea of standing tall in front of the enemy unnerving. Fighters, and other martial classes, that specialize in dexterity rather than strength may also be able to put the dualist's skills to great use.
    Also on Fax Celestis's Wiki: Dualist
    Requirements
    Feats: Combat Reflexes, either Two Weapon Fighting or Weapon Finesse
    and Either:
    Base Attack Bonus: +3
    Skills: Tumble 8, Bluff 2, Sense Motive 2
    Or:
    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Skills: Tumble 2, Bluff 2, Sense Motive 2

    Hit Die
    d8

    Skills
    Class Skills
    The dualist's class skills (and the key ability for each) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).

    Skill Points per Level
    4 + her Int modifier

    Class Features
    {table=head]_Level_|_BAB_|_Fort_|_Ref_|_Will_|_Special______________________________________________
    1
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Weapon Focus, Dualism, Opportunistic Strike +3
    2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Parry, Opposition
    3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Counter-Attack, Dual Weapon Specialization, Opportunistic Strike +6
    4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Doubled Opportunity, Greater Feint, En Garde (x1)
    5
    |
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Coup Lancé, Careful Strike, Opportunistic Strike +9
    6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Disorienting Parry, Attaque au Fer
    7
    |
    +7
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Flèche, Combat Understanding, Opportunistic Strike +12
    8
    |
    +8
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Parry Ally, Measured Devastation, En Garde (x2)
    9
    |
    +9
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Precision Damage, Opportunistic Strike +15
    10
    |
    +10
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Cover Ground, Remise, En Garde (Swift Action)[/table]

    Five-Level Variant
    I actually am beginning to think I like this version better. Thoughts appreciated:
    {table=head]_Level_|_BAB_|_Fort_|_Ref_|_Will_|_Special______________________________________________
    1
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Dualism, Parry (with half Sense Motive bonus), Opportunistic Strike +3
    2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Counter-Attack, Greater Feint, En Garde (x1)
    3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Doubled Opportunity, Dual Weapon Specialization, Opportunistic Strike +6
    4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Parry Ally, Coup Lancé, En Garde (x2)
    5
    |
    +5
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Cover Ground, Disorienting Parry, Opportunistic Strike +9[/table]

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    The dualist does not gain proficiency in any weapons or armor.

    Weapon Focus
    A dualist gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat at 1st level, but she may only take this feat in a one-handed weapon (not light or two-handed) in which she is proficient. If she already has Weapon Focus, she may take it again, but it still must be in a one-handed weapon.

    Dualism
    If she qualified for the class with Two Weapon Fighting, a dualist gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat. If she qualified with Weapon Finesse, she gains Two Weapon Fighting. If she already has both, she does not gain any benefit from this portion of the feature.

    In addition to these bonus feats, the dualist also may treat any one-handed weapon in which she has Weapon Focus as a light weapon for the purposes of dual-wielding penalties and for Weapon Finesse.

    Opportunistic Strike
    Whenever a dualist makes an attack of opportunity with a weapon in which she has a Weapon Focus, she gets a +3 bonus to her damage roll. As a flat numerical bonus, this damage is multiplied by critical hits.

    This bonus increases by another +3 damage every two levels after 1st (to a maximum of +15 at level 9). Every +3 Opportunistic Strike damage is equivalent to +1d6 worth of Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, or Skirmish damage for the purpose of pre-requisites and the activation of certain feats (such as Ambush feats).

    Parry
    At 2nd level, a dualist masters the art of parrying. By expending an attack of opportunity use when she is attacked in melee, she may make an opposed attack roll against her assailant. She must use Weapon Finesse for this roll; if she cannot Finesse the weapon that she is using, she may not use this ability. In the result of a tie, the dualist wins. If she succeeds, she deflects that attack, avoiding its damage, but has one fewer attack of opportunity that she might use at subsequent opportunities. She may use this ability as often as she likes, provided she still has attacks of opportunity to use for it.

    In the five-level variant, the Dualist gains this ability at 1st level, and also adds half her Sense Motive bonus to her attack roll to Parry.

    Opposition
    A 2nd level dualist is a master of controlling her opponent's blows. As a swift action, she may hold any adjacent foe's weapon in opposition with any one-handed weapon in which she has Weapon Focus. The opponent receives a -4 penalty to melee attack rolls until the dualist attacks or the opponent is no longer adjacent to her. If she does not have a weapon available in which she has Weapon Focus, she cannot use this feature.

    Counter-Attack
    Anyone who is parried by a 3rd level dualist provokes an attack of opportunity from her, allowing her to use a second attack of opportunity to deliver a single melee strike at her highest attack bonus. She must use Weapon Finesse for this attack; if she is not using a weapon that she can Finesse, she may not use this ability. She also may not use the same weapon to parry and then counter, so in order to counter she must have one weapon to Finesse for the parry, and a second weapon to Finesse for the counter-attack. Any appropriate bonuses, including Opportunistic Strike, apply to this attack.

    In the five-level variant, the dualist gains this ability at 2nd level.

    Dual Weapon Specialization
    At 3rd level, a dualist learns to excel in the art of her dual weapons. She gains Improved Two Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat. If she already has this feat, she does not gain any benefit from this portion of the feature.

    Also, the requirements on Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization change. The requirement of a given level in the Fighter class is removed, and replaced with a requirement of Dualist 3 for Weapon Specialization, Dualist 6 for Greater Weapon Focus, and Dualist 9 for Greater Weapon Specialization. She may take these feats as normal after meeting those pre-requisites.

    In the five-level variant, this feature is still gained at level 3. However, the requirements for Weapon Specialization are Dualist 1 for Weapon Specialization, Dualist 3 for Greater Weapon Focus, and Dualist 5, total hit dice 12 for Greater Weapon Specialization. The five-level variant also gains Careful Strike, but only for weapons in which she has a Greater Weapon Focus, and Measured Devastation, but only for weapons in which she has Greater Weapon Specialization.

    Doubled Opportunity
    Any time a 4th level dualist successfully hits an enemy for damage with an attack of opportunity, she may immediately take another attack of opportunity at a -5 penalty to the attack roll. She must make this attack with Weapon Finesse, and it cannot be with the same weapon that made the first attack of opportunity (but may be with a weapon used to Parry, if the Counter-Attack successfully hits and deals damage). If she has no weapon that qualifies for Weapon Finesse available, she may not use this feature.

    If the dualist uses this feature while she is moving (for example, doubling a counter-attack in response to attacks of opportunity that she draws from opponents as she moves past), she deducts 10 feet from her move speed for that action (this is before any modifiers, so if running at double one's move speed, a total of 20 feet would be deducted). If this reduction would cause her to have moved further than her reduced move speed, she stops in the square where the attack was made.

    The dualist features Flèche and Cover Ground generate attacks that are treated as attacks of opportunity but are not eligible for Doubled Opportunity. All other attacks treated as attacks of opportunity, unless otherwise noted, are eligible for Doubled Opportunity.

    This ability is gained at the 3rd level of the five-level variant.

    Greater Feint
    At 3rd level, a dualist may feint more quickly. Feint actions take one lesser action than they would otherwise, according to the table:
    {table=head]Originally|Now
    Standard|Move
    Move|Swift
    Swift|Free, 1/round[/table]

    The five-level variant gains this feature at 2nd level.

    En Garde
    As a standard action, a 4th level dualist may prepare for her opponent's action. She adds a number equal to the number of attacks she would get in a full-round action to the maximum number of attacks of opportunity she can make during the next round.

    At dualist level 8, the dualist gains twice as many attacks of opportunity as she would have had attacks in a full-round action.

    At dualist level 10, this action is reduced to a swift action.

    If, for whatever reason, the dualist can use Engarde and still make a full-round attack, any iterative attacks she uses are not added to her number of attacks of opportunity. The first attack of the sequence, or any single attacks she makes as a part of other actions, are not removed from the number of extra attacks of opportunity that she gets to make.

    For example, a Rogue 5/Dualist 10 with a base attack bonus of +13/+8/+3 and Two Weapon Fighting (but not the Improved or Greater versions) gets four attacks during a full-round attack: one regular attack, a bonus attack from Two Weapon Fighting, and two iterative attacks. She may make a single attack as a standard action, and then as a swift action may increase her number of attacks of opportunity for the following round by eight (twice the number she would have had as a full-round attack). If the same dualist gets the opportunity to make a full-round attack in addition to the Engarde use, and she makes four attacks during that attack (one regular attack, one from Two-Weapon Fighting, and two more from her iteratives), she only adds two attacks of opportunity, because the first regular attack still counts even though it was used in the full-round attack. The bonus and iterative attacks have been used for the round, however, and do not get added.

    Coup Lancé
    A 5th level dualist learns to always press her advantage. If an adjacent foe is about to become non-adjacent for any reason (e.g., her opponent's move or 5 foot step, teleportation, bull rush, etc, whether it is because the opponent or the dualist is the one moving), or falls to 0 hit points or fewer, the dualist may, by using two attacks of opportunity, make a single melee attack at her highest attack bonus as an attack of opportunity. She must use Weapon Finesse with this attack roll; if she cannot Finesse the weapon that she is using, she may not use this ability. The target is treated as flat-footed for this attack.

    The five-level variant gains En Garde at 2nd level, when it adds a number of attacks equal to a full-attack action. At 4th level, this increases to twice that number. The five-level variant does not gain the swift-action version.

    Careful Strike
    Upon reaching 5th level, any one-handed weapon in the hands of a dualist who has Weapon Focus in that weapon, gains a +1 to its critical threat range (so your standard issue rapier goes from 18-20 to 17-20), during any attack of opportunity or against flat-footed foes (an attack of opportunity against a flat-footed foe does not get +2, just +1). This bonus applies before any critical threat range bonuses, such as Keen or Improved Critical (so a Keen Rapier would have a 13-20 threat range instead of a 15-20 threat range).

    The five-level variant gains this feature as a part of Dual Weapon Specialization, but only with weapons in which she has a Greater Weapon Focus.

    Disorienting Parry
    After her 6th level, a dualist has mastered the art of opening up her opponent for a devastating attack. After a successful parry, her opponent is treated as flat-footed for her counter-attack, if she uses one, and for her follow-up attack, if she uses Doubled Opportunity.

    Because this flat-footed status is a result of the Dualist's own skills, and not a result of taking her opponent unawares, attacking an opponent who is flat-footed due to this ability does not violate a Knight's code of honor.

    The five-level variant gains this feature at 5th level.

    Attaque au Fer
    Once per round, a 6th level dualist may make a disarm attempt as an attack action. She gains a +4 bonus to this attempt, and her opponent cannot attempt to disarm her if her attempt fails. If successful, she disarms her opponent (but may not choose to catch their weapon), and may make an immediate attack against them at her highest base attack bonus. This attack is considered an attack of opportunity, but does not trigger Doubled Opportunity. The target is flat-footed against this attack. If she fails, she provokes an attack of opportunity from her opponent, but her opponent does not get the attack of opportunity until after she has made her attempt, so her opponent cannot foil the disarm attempt.

    Flèche
    As a charge-equivalent action, a 7th level dualist may choose a single opponent and move towards them, ending in the square adjacent to that opponent that was opposite to where the dualist started. She does not draw attacks of opportunity from that opponent for this movement, and may move unhindered through the opponent's space. She may not move more than twice her move speed, however. At the end of the movement, the dualist makes a single melee attack, as per a normal charge, but that attack is treated as an attack of opportunity and the opponent is treated as flat-footed for this attack. If the dualist gains a full-round attack as part of normal charge actions, she may do so, but only the first strike is treated as if against a flat-footed opponent (unless, of course, her opponent is actually flat-footed). All of the attacks are treated as attacks of opportunity, however.

    Further, this action counts as En Garde for the purposes of adding to the dualist's number of attacks of opportunity, but only adds a number of attacks of opportunity equal to one full-round attack, not double this number even after En Garde gains the ability to do so at level 8. As usual with En Garde, if the dualist gains a full-round attack at the end of the charge, any bonus or iterative attacks used in the full-round attack are not added to the dualist's attacks of opportunities for the round.

    Combat Understanding
    A 7th level dualist may expend an extra attack of opportunity to add her Sense Motive check as a bonus to her attack rolls while parrying.

    The five-level variant adds half her Sense Motive bonus to her attack rolls while parrying, but this does not cost an attack of opportunity. It is also gained at 1st level, as part of the Parry ability.

    Parry Ally
    An 8th level dualist has become so skilled with her parries that she can defend others as well as herself. She may parry against any melee attack directed at a target in any square adjacent to her, though she takes a -4 penalty on this roll. If she succeeds, she may Counter-Attack as usual, if her opponent is in range, and if he is not, she may expend an additional attack of opportunity to move up to 10 feet to get in range for her Counter-Attack. This movement does provoke an attack of opportunity, which may be parried and countered as well, but if she takes damage from her opponent's attack of opportunity, she stops in the square where she took the damage and does not get either of the Counter-Attacks.

    The five-level variant gains this feature at 4th level.

    Measured Devastation
    When making an attack of opportunity or attacking a flat-footed foe, any one-handed weapons used by an 8th level dualist has Weapon Focus in them have their critical multiplier advanced, so a x2 becomes a x3, and a x3 becomes a x4, and a x4 becomes a x5. A bonus higher than x5 is impossible.

    The five-level variant gains this feature as a part of the Dual Weapon Specialization feature, but only with weapons in which she has Greater Weapon Specialization.

    Precision Damage
    When using Weapon Finesse on an attack roll, a 9th level dualist may add her dexterity modifier to her damage roll. This is in addition to her strength modifier.

    Cover Ground
    By 10th level, a dualist not only watches for opportunities to strike adjacent opponents, but those farther away, as well. By using two attacks of opportunity, the dualist may move up to half her move speed and attack any target within that range that uses an action that provokes an attack of opportunity. This attack is considered an attack of opportunity, but is not eligible for Double Opportunity. The movement, however, does provoke attacks of opportunity, which the dualist may parry and counter as normal. If she takes damage from any attack of opportunity during this movement, however, she stops in the square where she was struck, and does not gain the ability to hit any target. Her parry roll against opponents other than the target she is moving towards takes a -6 penalty, as well.

    In addition, the Parry Ally ability is changed to allow the dualist to move up to half her move speed towards any target that is melee attacking any ally of hers that is also within range, and make a parry attempt (and gain the subsequent counter-attack if successful). This move plus parry action costs the same two attacks of opportunities that the move plus attack action of the usual Cover Ground ability, while the subsequent Counter-Attack and Double Opportunity require another attack of opportunity each.

    In the five-level variant, the Dualist gains this ability at 5th level.

    Remise
    A 10th level dualist may use three attacks of opportunity to reroll any melee attack at a +2 bonus. She may decide to use this after to seeing the result of the first roll. This ability cannot be used to reroll a reroll, so each attack has a maximum of two rolls, but separate attacks may be rerolled so long as the dualist has attacks of opportunity with which to use this ability.

    Picture Credits
    The Dualist artwork is adapted from "Duelling Armor" by Ben McSweeney. Used with permission. All credit goes to him for the image.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-09-06 at 10:14 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Aug 2008

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Make Parry an opposed attack roll against the enemy's attack roll (which was made in attempt to kill you so the opponent makes no new rolls). Draws to parryer. How's that?

    Also: Keep full BAB. This is a straight up melee combat class even if it is a finesse/dual wielding styled.
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2009-08-07 at 03:34 AM.
    Frog in the playground.

    My homebrewer's extended signature.

    I have Str 5!

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Wall of text attacks! CRITS!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    Harperfan7's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Cydonia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    I agree with frog dragon on both points.

    I'm going to point out that you could take this class at 3rd level.

    I would change their hit die to d8 and give them sneak attack as a rogue, and maybe battle fortitude like the scout (maybe minus the init bonus). The reason there is that any melee class with d6, bad fort save, and no special defensive ability won't last. Sneak attack just because the class needs it to be effective.

    I would change engarde to "any time you use total defense" and upgrade it at 9th to "any time you fight defensively."

    I don't like relentless, it doesn't really fit the other abilities and doesn't seem very useful. Everything up to 8th is simple and cool and effective.

    Maybe those two str and con drain attacks that the swashbuckler class gets?
    8th and 9th respectively?

    Overall, I like this and would play one. Good job, sir. (Definitely add sneak attack!)

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stuck in a bottle.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Looks great. Engarde, however, is a little weak considering you already have an exceptional Dexterity and you'd get, at most, 3 extra attacks...not worth the action in my mind.

    Ideas (drawn from fencing) that might interest you:

    Coup lancé: If an opponent adjacent to you becomes non-adjacent through any means (including a 5 foot step, teleportation, or planar travel) or falls to 0 hit points or below, you may, as an immediate action, make a single melee attack against them at your highest attack bonus.

    Attack au Fer: Once per round you may make a disarm attempt as an attack action. You gain a +4 bonus to this attempt, and your opponent cannot attempt to disarm you if your attempt fails. If successful, you disarm your opponent (but may not choose to catch their weapon), and may make an immediate attack against them at your highest base attack bonus. They are flat-footed against this attack. If you fail, your next attack against the same opponent this round gains a +2 bonus to the attack roll.

    Fleche: As a charge equivalent action, you may choose a single opponent and move towards that opponent, ending your movement in a square adjacent to them on their opposite side. You do not draw attacks of opportunity from that opponent for this movement, and you may move unhindered through that opponent's space. You may not move more than twice your land speed. At the end of your attack, you may make a single melee attack as per usual, but your opponent is flat-footed against the attack.

    Opposition: As a swift action, you may hold an adjacent foe's weapon in opposition. That opponent receives a -4 penalty to melee attack rolls against you until you attack or the opponent is no longer adjacent to you.

    Presentation: As a swift action, you may extend your blade to threaten your opponent. You may make an immediate attack of opportunity against the first foe to attack you in melee before the beginning of your next turn.

    Remise: Once per round, as an immediate action, you may re-roll a single melee attack roll with a +2 bonus. You may use this ability after seeing the result of the original roll.

    Stop Thrust: Whenever you land a successful attack with your Presentation ability, your opponent automatically misses with the provoking attack.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Make Parry an opposed attack roll against the enemy's attack roll (which was made in attempt to kill you so the opponent makes no new rolls). Draws to parryer. How's that?

    Also: Keep full BAB. This is a straight up melee combat class even if it is a finesse/dual wielding styled.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    I agree with frog dragon on both points.
    Sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    I'm going to point out that you could take this class at 3rd level.
    Pre-reqs were just shuffled around from the duelist, who had a Tumble 5, Perform 3 requirement, plus three feats. But that doesn't mean I'm married to them; I really didn't put a lot of thought into them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    I would change their hit die to d8 and give them sneak attack as a rogue, and maybe battle fortitude like the scout (maybe minus the init bonus). The reason there is that any melee class with d6, bad fort save, and no special defensive ability won't last. Sneak attack just because the class needs it to be effective.
    I figured they'd enter with Sneak Attack, but yeah, I'm going to add damage to the Counter attack. Will look into Battle Fortitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    I would change engarde to "any time you use total defense" and upgrade it at 9th to "any time you fight defensively."
    Will consider that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    I don't like relentless, it doesn't really fit the other abilities and doesn't seem very useful. Everything up to 8th is simple and cool and effective.
    Well, I figured if the dualist could regularly avoid attacks and return them in kind, people would just go around her. I wanted to give her the ability to stay with them.

    Really, she's supposed to be a tank, of sorts - but relying on not being hit rather than soaking up hits.

    I hadn't really considered how she'd fare around magic, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    Maybe those two str and con drain attacks that the swashbuckler class gets?
    8th and 9th respectively?
    Will look into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harperfan7 View Post
    Overall, I like this and would play one. Good job, sir. (Definitely add sneak attack!)
    Sweet, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Looks great. Engarde, however, is a little weak considering you already have an exceptional Dexterity and you'd get, at most, 3 extra attacks...not worth the action in my mind.
    Well, I have plans for more maneuvers that use up AoOs, though you're right that it's still only going to be 3 extra. Maybe I'll double it... maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Ideas (drawn from fencing) that might interest you:
    Sweet, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Coup lancé: If an opponent adjacent to you becomes non-adjacent through any means (including a 5 foot step, teleportation, or planar travel) or falls to 0 hit points or below, you may, as an immediate action, make a single melee attack against them at your highest attack bonus.
    I'd rather stick with them... unless... hmm. Would Stand Still prevent the movement, even if it's teleportation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Attack au Fer: Once per round you may make a disarm attempt as an attack action. You gain a +4 bonus to this attempt, and your opponent cannot attempt to disarm you if your attempt fails. If successful, you disarm your opponent (but may not choose to catch their weapon), and may make an immediate attack against them at your highest base attack bonus. They are flat-footed against this attack. If you fail, your next attack against the same opponent this round gains a +2 bonus to the attack roll.
    Oh, sweet. I like this one. I hadn't considered disarming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Fleche: As a charge equivalent action, you may choose a single opponent and move towards that opponent, ending your movement in a square adjacent to them on their opposite side. You do not draw attacks of opportunity from that opponent for this movement, and you may move unhindered through that opponent's space. You may not move more than twice your land speed. At the end of your attack, you may make a single melee attack as per usual, but your opponent is flat-footed against the attack.
    Hmm... interesting. Strictly superior to a normal charge, but still probably not as good as pounce. Very interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Opposition: As a swift action, you may hold an adjacent foe's weapon in opposition. That opponent receives a -4 penalty to melee attack rolls against you until you attack or the opponent is no longer adjacent to you.
    Hmm. Sounds good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Presentation: As a swift action, you may extend your blade to threaten your opponent. You may make an immediate attack of opportunity against the first foe to attack you in melee before the beginning of your next turn.
    Err... why wouldn't you just parry and counter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Remise: Once per round, as an immediate action, you may re-roll a single melee attack roll with a +2 bonus. You may use this ability after seeing the result of the original roll.
    Hmm, I like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Stop Thrust: Whenever you land a successful attack with your Presentation ability, your opponent automatically misses with the provoking attack.
    Again, Parry and Counter already does what this does, in order.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    That pun is awfully amazing!

    Looks good as far as I can tell. Great job!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stuck in a bottle.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Err... why wouldn't you just parry and counter?
    You still can. It's a swift action that doesn't remove your ability to counter. It just gives you a free attack.

    Makes attacking you deadly.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    That pun is awfully amazing!

    Looks good as far as I can tell. Great job!
    Isn't it though? Heh, it amused me.

    Anyway, been fiddling. Now it just seems like she gets a lot of abilities, even if none of them are omgwtf amazing. Still trying to work Fleche into this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    You still can. It's a swift action that doesn't remove your ability to counter. It just gives you a free attack.

    Makes attacking you deadly.
    But you could do that anyway. It still uses your attack of opportunity, no? As it stands, if you get attacked, you parry and then you counter-attack. OK, that uses two attacks of opportunity... Hmm...
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-08-07 at 11:30 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stuck in a bottle.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    But you could do that anyway. It still uses your attack of opportunity, no? As it stands, if you get attacked, you parry and then you counter-attack. OK, that uses two attacks of opportunity... Hmm...
    Nope. Presentation, as I suggested it, requires no attack of opportunity. It's a free attack for the cost of your swift action on the previous turn.

    That said, it's probably not necessary...the class is filling up, and this ability doesn't add that much to the flavor.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2009-08-07 at 11:47 AM.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    im not sure i understand what you mean by expending AoO, normally arent AoO just when you do something distracting and the opponent gets unfocused you get an extra attack, or if an opponent moves in or out of an area you get an extra attack?

    so how could you do 3 AoO attacks at once x.x


    Edit: nvm i think i know what you mean, you build up AoO and dont use them as soon as you get them(if you dont want to) and can use them later?
    Last edited by Origomar; 2009-08-07 at 11:47 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stuck in a bottle.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Origomar View Post
    im not sure i understand what you mean by expending AoO, normally arent AoO just when you do something distracting and the opponent gets unfocused you get an extra attack, or if an opponent moves in or out of an area you get an extra attack?

    so how could you do 3 AoO attacks at once x.x


    Edit: nvm i think i know what you mean, you build up AoO and dont use them as soon as you get them(if you dont want to) and can use them later?
    I don't think so. I think you sacrifice potential AoOs in a round.

    For instances: I have Combat Reflexes and a 24 Dexterity, so I have 8 AoOs in a round.

    I make a full attack, but two attacks miss. For each attack, I give up 3 AoOs to Remise, re-rolling both die. Then, on my turn, I'm attacked. I spend one AoO chance to parry, and another to counter. I have no more AoOs options left: if an enemy draws an AoO from me after this point, I cannot take it.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (WIP) (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    I don't think so. I think you sacrifice potential AoOs in a round.

    For instances: I have Combat Reflexes and a 24 Dexterity, so I have 8 AoOs in a round.

    I make a full attack, but two attacks miss. For each attack, I give up 3 AoOs to Remise, re-rolling both die. Then, on my turn, I'm attacked. I spend one AoO chance to parry, and another to counter. I have no more AoOs options left: if an enemy draws an AoO from me after this point, I cannot take it.
    Exactly. The idea was to turn AoOs into a pool similar to Ki or Rage (in Pathfinder; one of the good things from that...).

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    OK, I think she's just about done. Remaining questions:
    • Pre-reqs?
    • Level at which Disorienting Parry is gained? It seems kind of stuck in there. Actually, the levels at which anything is gained is somewhat uncertain to me, so feel free to comment on any of them.
    • Rate of AoO use - does she use enough of them to justify Engarde? Does she have enough of them to use her abilities well?
    • Amount and style of Counter damage. Is it good?

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dante & Vergil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Counter
    A 3rd level dualist can follow up a parry with an attack. On a successful parry, the dualist may use another attack of opportunity to counter-attack her assailant, gaining a single attack at full attack bonus. This attack is treated as an attack of opportunity for all bonuses that affect attacks of opportunity.

    She also gains a +3 to her damage roll during any attack of opportunity at 3rd level, and this increases by 2 every other level, and then finally gains another +1 at level 10, for a total of +10. Treat each +2 of Counter damage as equivalent to +1d6 worth of Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, or Skirmish damage for the purposes of pre-requisites. As a flat numerical bonus, this damage does get multiplied by critical hits.
    With the bolded text in mind, does this mean that I can give bonus damage from Counter, in the +2 increments, to activate ambush feats or similar abilities? If so, could I give up counter and sneak attack damage in any combination for ambush feats or like abilities?

    Also, does the bonus to threat range from Careful Strike apply to only attacks of opportunity or flat-footed enemies? The wording is abit off for me so I can't tell.

    I do like this class though and it actually makes me want to play a non-caster for once. Thank you for that.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Not familiar with ambush feats, though my generic answer to that is "Ask your DM." Personally, I'd probably be fine with it - ambushes don't really fit the flavor of the dualist, but if you've got those feats they probably fit the flavor of your character.

    Yes, Careful Strike and Measured Devastation only apply to flat-footed enemies or to attacks of opportunity. Using your regular attacks against non-flat-footed enemies would not get those bonuses.

    Anyway, sweet! I'm glad you like the class.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Dante & Vergil's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Ambush feats are sneak-attack feats. They allow you give up an amount of sneak-attack dice to do something different. Nothing more.

    Thank you for clearing that up. I had to be sure that was how it worked.

    Nope problems, I hope, and wish you well with this. (I already turned it into a word document.)

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    I just looked up the Ambush feats, and the answer is definitely. Those are excellent feats to go with this character, I think.

    Jeez, Complete Scoundrel is an excellent book. I'm pretty certain that it's my favorite 3.5 book out there.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-08-07 at 02:50 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gorgondantess's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Not in a human colon

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Ahh... I know you want rogues to be able to get into this class early, but as is a non-human swashbuckler with no flaws or anything can get into it at 4th level, rather than the 6th most require; I'd definitely change the prereqs to at least having a skill point requirement of 8.
    Anyhow, it's bloody brilliant, but I'd probably give it oversized TWF for free, so they can wield rapiers in both hands without the big penalty; yes, rapiers are not light weapons. Just finnessable.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Hmm. What skill, then? I don't want to exclude Fighters from it, either.

    Anyway, I didn't know that Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting even existed! Will use that. Though Dual Rapiers would have done the same thing, just restricted to Rapiers.

    I'm actually thinking of eliminating the Rapier focus, and just have the features apply to those one-handed weapons in which you have Weapon Focus. I don't like arbitrary restrictions like that, and even though I think rapiers would do best, player choice is always good. Besides, the girl in the picture's got a mace, too. Thoughts on that? Should I restrict it to martial weapons only? I figure if you spent the feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency, then you should be allowed to take advantage, but then I worry that the Careful Strike and Measured Devastation abilities will become unbalanced.

    Also, I'm thinking of bumping Counter-Attack damage to +3 = +1d6, and giving +3 every two levels. It's still less than the average on Sneak Attack dice, and even on critical hits, it's less than the max you could get on Sneak Attack - until you get the x3 from Measured Devastation. Thoughts?

    Anyhow, thanks!
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-08-07 at 04:15 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gorgondantess's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Not in a human colon

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Hmm. What skill, then? I don't want to exclude Fighters from it, either.
    Tumble, I'd say- it's CC for fighters, but then you can just take evels in swashbuckler, can't you? If you must make it a fighter skill, probably jump.

    Anyway, I didn't know that Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting even existed! Will use that. Though Dual Rapiers would have done the same thing, just restricted to Rapiers.
    *Facepalm* nnngh... I can't believe I didn't see that.

    I'm actually thinking of eliminating the Rapier focus, and just have the features apply to those one-handed weapons in which you have Weapon Focus. I don't like arbitrary restrictions like that, and even though I think rapiers would do best, player choice is always good. Besides, the girl in the picture's got a mace, too. Thoughts on that? Should I restrict it to martial weapons only? I figure if you spent the feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency, then you should be allowed to take advantage, but then I worry that the Careful Strike and Measured Devastation abilities will become unbalanced.
    Definitely- just make it weapons in which you have weapon focus- what if someone wants to use daggers, or spears?

    Also, I'm thinking of bumping Counter-Attack damage to +3 = +1d6, and giving +3 every two levels. It's still less than the average on Sneak Attack dice, and even on critical hits, it's less than the max you could get on Sneak Attack - until you get the x3 from Measured Devastation. Thoughts?
    That would definitely work. I like it.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2009

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    thanks for explaining.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    The Neoclassic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Focused but simple and classy. Nice.

    My only crunch-related comment would be that Two Weapon Fighting might be a good requirement; one should probably already have some idea how to fight with two rapiers before entering this class. Then again, I can see there are already three required feats so I'd understand if you didn't add it.

    The class can still be taken at 3rd level which is unusual for PrCs. I see your trouble in trying to come up with a good way to fix it though, particularly if you want the class to be a reasonable option for both fighters and rogues.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Gorgondantess's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Not in a human colon

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    8 ranks in jump required would be a good one. Oh, wait, how about this one: "8 ranks in any dexterity-based skill". Eh? Ehh?
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2009-08-07 at 06:32 PM.
    Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Neoclassic View Post
    Focused but simple and classy. Nice.

    My only crunch-related comment would be that Two Weapon Fighting might be a good requirement; one should probably already have some idea how to fight with two rapiers before entering this class. Then again, I can see there are already three required feats so I'd understand if you didn't add it.

    The class can still be taken at 3rd level which is unusual for PrCs. I see your trouble in trying to come up with a good way to fix it though, particularly if you want the class to be a reasonable option for both fighters and rogues.
    Exactly; four feats is a bit much. Sure, they're not awful feats (well, two of them aren't), but I really think that a fencer (using one rapier thus far) could enter this class and then learn how to use two rapiers, while the rogue who has been using two knives can also learn to use a pair of rapiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    8 ranks in jump required would be a good one. Oh, wait, how about this one: "8 ranks in any dexterity-based skill". Eh? Ehh?
    Heh, well, I decided to make the Tumble requirement 8, and then reduce the Tumble requirement to 2 if you have +5 BAB. Both cannot happen before level 5, but different classes can qualify in different ways. I think it works.

    Anyway, I've changed the damage as discussed in a previous post, moved a few things around, eliminated the rapier requirements, generally changing them to be any one-handed weapon in which the dualist has Weapon Focus, and added the ability to add your Sense Motive check to Parry checks, since I wanted to justify the Sense Motive requirement.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Grad. School
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    I didn't catch that Opportunistic Strike only works on AoO's at first. I was a little boggled.

    Once I realized how many AoO's you spend to use your abilities... this looks really good!

    My only concern is the increase on threat range that gets it down to 13-20. Possibly threatening on 40% of attacks is impressive, but I'm concerned about weapon special abilities that only trigger on a critical. This makes them much more useful. And if anyone is going to be able to confirm the criticals, it would be this class because you're not power attacking (presumably) and all your AoO's are made at your highest attack bonus. Just something to keep in mind when looking at how gear interacts with the PrC.

    I like it overall though. Very well done!

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Worcestershire, UK

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    OK, I think she's just about done. Remaining questions:
    • Pre-reqs?
    ...snip...
    I can't help feeling that getting into a dual-wielding class without being any good at dual wielding seems a bit odd. I think at least Two Weapon Fighting should be in the prerequisites.

    Aside from that, this seems to be a good PrC.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PId6's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    This looks like a very fun class. It's indeed a lot of abilities, but none of them are that powerful, and they're all flavorful enough to deserve a spot. A few thoughts:

    • Why Two Weapon Defense? That's a really terrible feat and should belong on the list after Greater Two Weapon Fighting, if at all. Right now, the most optimal thing would be to not take Two Weapon Fighting before taking this class so you can skip Two Weapon Defense.
    • Are the number of Attacks of Opportunities reset at the beginning of each round or when it's your turn again?
    • This class has some great control abilities, but a source of actual damage would be needed. A rogue would love the flat-footing abilities, but the lack of sneak attack progression hurts badly. A feat like Daring Outlaw would be nice to have here, otherwise the damage is way too low.
    • Power Attack with rapiers seems the most viable way to get damage right now, which somewhat goes against the idea of a light, precise swordsman. Not sure if that's intended.
    • Also, the most optimal route for a Fighter going into this would be to wear heavy armor. Again, not sure if that's intended.

    These are just some initial thoughts.
    Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
    Potpourri Creation Contest II Winner: Desert Martial Adept Substitution Levels
    Potpourri Creation Contest III Best Characterization: Edward the Sly's Lucky Spells
    Prestige Class Contest XXI Submission: Child of the Seelie Court

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn183 View Post
    I didn't catch that Opportunistic Strike only works on AoO's at first. I was a little boggled.

    Once I realized how many AoO's you spend to use your abilities... this looks really good!
    [...]
    I like it overall though. Very well done!
    Sweet! Glad to hear it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrawn183 View Post
    My only concern is the increase on threat range that gets it down to 13-20. Possibly threatening on 40% of attacks is impressive, but I'm concerned about weapon special abilities that only trigger on a critical. This makes them much more useful. And if anyone is going to be able to confirm the criticals, it would be this class because you're not power attacking (presumably) and all your AoO's are made at your highest attack bonus. Just something to keep in mind when looking at how gear interacts with the PrC.
    True, but those abilities are vastly sub-par anyway. I don't hold with the "criticals aren't special if you can do them too often" line of thinking, and I firmly believe that Improved Critical and Keen should stack, for example. Critical-focused builds are strictly inferior to Power Attack builds. While if Improved Critical and Keen did stack, I'd be wary about those abilities, as it stands I do not think it would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Altair_the_Vexed View Post
    I can't help feeling that getting into a dual-wielding class without being any good at dual wielding seems a bit odd. I think at least Two Weapon Fighting should be in the prerequisites.

    Aside from that, this seems to be a good PrC.
    Hmm. Before, I would have said that there wasn't room for it, but with the Rapier-ness out, Weapon Finesse makes less sense... hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    This looks like a very fun class. It's indeed a lot of abilities, but none of them are that powerful, and they're all flavorful enough to deserve a spot. A few thoughts:
    Sweet, glad you think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    Why Two Weapon Defense? That's a really terrible feat and should belong on the list after Greater Two Weapon Fighting, if at all. Right now, the most optimal thing would be to not take Two Weapon Fighting before taking this class so you can skip Two Weapon Defense.
    Hmm. Hadn't really considered it that way; those feats were chosen for a thematic reason. TWD fits this class rather well, don't you think?

    Hmm. Maybe I'll make TWF a requirement, and give TWD as a bonus feat. Sure, it's weak, but it's a bonus feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    Are the number of Attacks of Opportunities reset at the beginning of each round or when it's your turn again?
    Yes, as they usually are. I've changed nothing about that mechanic.

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    This class has some great control abilities, but a source of actual damage would be needed. A rogue would love the flat-footing abilities, but the lack of sneak attack progression hurts badly. A feat like Daring Outlaw would be nice to have here, otherwise the damage is way too low.
    Opportunistic Strike?

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    Power Attack with rapiers seems the most viable way to get damage right now, which somewhat goes against the idea of a light, precise swordsman. Not sure if that's intended.
    You can't make Power Attacks for an Attack of Opportunity; with this class you want to be attacking with AoO's as much as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by PId6 View Post
    Also, the most optimal route for a Fighter going into this would be to wear heavy armor. Again, not sure if that's intended.
    Considering that this build relies heavily on Dexterity, I don't think that's the case...

    EDIT: OK, so I've changed the requirements to allow entry with TWF instead of Weapon Finesse, since Weapon Finesse may or may not make any sense to your build - before you get into the class, anyway.

    But now I'm worried about one level dips. You get two free feats (one of which a lot of players will want), plus two special abilities. That's rather good. As in a lot good. Thoughts on this?

    EDIT: Alright, I think I'm happy with that. I removed the Two Weapon Defense and Stand Still bonus feats - the latter is still heavily recommended for this character, but you can get it yourself. I moved Opposition to second level, so now you just get a single bonus feat and +3 Opportunistic Strike for a one level dip. Maybe worthwhile, but there are other ways to accomplish rather similar things.

    Oh, and you get to TWF and Weapon Finesse one-handed weapons (that you have Weapon Focus in). OK, so it's a pretty solid dip, but I think that the rest of the class is interesting enough that people going that route would want to take the whole thing.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-08-08 at 10:32 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PId6's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Hmm. Hadn't really considered it that way; those feats were chosen for a thematic reason. TWD fits this class rather well, don't you think?

    Hmm. Maybe I'll make TWF a requirement, and give TWD as a bonus feat. Sure, it's weak, but it's a bonus feat.
    Problem is, this is requiring way too many feats. You need 3 to get in, and you get 1 back. But with TWF already so feat intensive, this gets rather hard for anyone not a fighter. A rogue, for example, have to be human or be able to take flaws to get in at level 5, losing 3 feats in the process. She'd then need to spend 2 more out of 5 for ITWF and GTWF. A few more bonus feats for ITWF and GTWF would be nice at the higher levels, to compensate for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Yes, as they usually are. I've changed nothing about that mechanic.
    Then wouldn't En Garde be completely useless for the entire battle if you roll low on initiative and go after everyone else? Then again, I suppose you can delay until you get to go first next round.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Opportunistic Strike?
    Does very little damage at high levels. For high level melee, damage comes from making full attacks with huge bonus damage. Cutting something once per round at +15 doesn't really mean much, and you don't even get this bonus on full-attacks. That's why Power Attack is so important for all non-ToB fighting types. Consider that the warblade's Strike of Perfect Clarity maneuver deals 100 bonus damage on a single standard attack, and even that's usually not preferable to a full attack at high levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    You can't make Power Attacks for an Attack of Opportunity; with this class you want to be attacking with AoO's as much as possible.
    That's just it; AoOs don't deal enough damage to matter. A CR 17 very old white dragon has 337 hp. A CR 17 frost giant Jarl has 231 hp. A CR 18 nightcrawler has 212 hp. A CR 18 very old black dragon has 350 hp. Dealing one hit per round at 30-some damage counts for nothing more than a scratch; you need to do a lot more than just AoOs if you want to be able to damage things.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Considering that this build relies heavily on Dexterity, I don't think that's the case...
    With 18 Dex, for example, a mithril full plate grants 8 AC and 3 max Dex, which is 11 total AC. A chain shirt, on the other hand, only gives 8. Raise your Dex to 22, and it gets better, but mithril chain shirt still only gives a total AC of 10. You'd need really high Dex to make light armors more worthwhile, and I'm sure there are more ways to raise the Dex limit.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    But now I'm worried about one level dips. You get two free feats (one of which a lot of players will want), plus two special abilities. That's rather good. As in a lot good. Thoughts on this?
    You've too many prerequisites to just casually dip it. I would add Oversized TWF back since you're already requiring 3 feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    EDIT: Alright, I think I'm happy with that. I removed the Two Weapon Defense and Stand Still bonus feats - the latter is still heavily recommended for this character, but you can get it yourself. I moved Opposition to second level, so now you just get a single bonus feat and +3 Opportunistic Strike for a one level dip. Maybe worthwhile, but there are other ways to accomplish rather similar things.
    Again, since Stand Still is so important, the feat-deficit problem just becomes worse. Like I said, with so many required feats, it's not so great a dip. Besides, most DMs wouldn't allow you to take a homebrew class just for dipping purposes.
    Last edited by PId6; 2009-08-09 at 02:46 AM.
    Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
    Potpourri Creation Contest II Winner: Desert Martial Adept Substitution Levels
    Potpourri Creation Contest III Best Characterization: Edward the Sly's Lucky Spells
    Prestige Class Contest XXI Submission: Child of the Seelie Court

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Banned
     
    Harperfan7's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Cydonia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] Dualist (PEACH)

    Opposition: Does using this ability allow you to make attacks with the weapon you are using this ability with?

    Attaque au Fer: Does this ability provoke an AoO? They are flat-footed, but what if they have combat reflexes? Why does the dualist gain a +2 on her next attack for failing?

    Are Dualist levels counted as rogue levels when figuring whether or not someone's uncanny/improved uncanny dodge ability functions?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •