Not failing reflex saves on a 1 and the arrow super collider

[Kyrthain]

Is there any way of not instantly failing a reflex on a 1? I know about the mettle feature that works on fortitude saves, but is there one for reflex saves? it relates the a loop using reflect arrows, infinite deflection, and a pair of monks.
because of this, you have to be able to do this as many times per round as you want. Hopefully the playground can help.

[NEO|Phyte]

Only thing I can think of is getting Divine Rank of at least 1.

[Curmudgeon]

The Clerical Pride domain lets you reroll any 1 on a saving throw, once per save. Then there are Luck feats to cover those rare occasions (0.25%) when you roll 2 1s in a row.

[Irreverent Fool]

Tome of Battle. The Diamond Mind maneuver Action Before Thought allows a character to make a Concentration check in place of a reflex save. Since it is a skill check, a 1 is not considered an automatic failure. A non-initiator can take the Martial Study feat and learn this maneuver at level 6 though it will be usable only once per encounter by such a character. A warblade could use it after every (non maneuver) attack.

Edit: And this can't be done infinitely so it doesn't help. Sorry.

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[Kyrthain]

The Clerical Pride domain lets you reroll any 1 on a saving throw, once per save. Then there are Luck feats to cover those rare occasions (0.25%) when you roll 2 1s in a row.

Thing is, given infinite saves, you'll get 3 1's in a row, or more. For my purposes, I need something that means that one isn't auto fail

[Kyrthain]

Tome of Battle.

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what maneuver/stance?

[Irreverent Fool]

what maneuver/stance?

Sorry. I edited it in above.

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[raitalin]

The 17th level Knight ability Impetuous Endurance.

[Iku Rex]

The ToB maneuver Action Before Thought and the Kensai PrC Withstand ability turns a reflex save into a concentration check. Skill checks don't fail on a natural 1.

[Irreverent Fool]

You could also play Mutants & Masterminds and simply acquire Immunity: Reflex saves.

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[Kyrthain]

Sorry. I edited it in above.

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Sweet.That works perfectly. So, now that i know it works, I shall detail the arrow super collider. Any character with deflect arrows, infinite deflection, that maneuver, and a cohort with the same works. Also, I believe there is a feat in the player's handbook 2 that lets you shoot an arrow that hits all targets in a line. One of the two people needs this. Finally, one of you needs epic dodge.

Here's how it works:
Person one: uses fires an arrow at person 2
Person 2: snatches arrow, fires it back.
Repeat until arrow is moving stupidly fast.
Person with epic dodge willingly fails reflex save.
They then dodge the mach 200,000,000,000 arrow.
???
Profit

Edit: oh, dang. well, this is the plan, for when we find a way to not fail on ones. can you use withstand as much as you want?

[Milskidasith]

So you needed an epic level character to send an arrow going really fast? The peasant railgun can already do that, if you apply real world physics to D&D.

[Siosilvar]

Edit: oh, dang. well, this is the plan, for when we find a way to not fail on ones. can you use withstand as much as you want?

Yes, but it only works for AoE effects.

[ZeroNumerous]

So you needed an epic level character to send an arrow going really fast?

No, just 2 Venerable Dragonwrought Kobolds.

[Moriato]

In the phb2 there's Steadfast Determination, which makes it so you don't fail fortitude saves on a nat 1. Is there anything out there that lets you make a fortitude save instead of a reflex save?

[Siosilvar]

No, just 2 Venerable Dragonwrought Kobolds.

With a +19 Reflex save...

[Eloel]

With a +19 Reflex save...

Rogue 1/Monk 1/Ranger 1/Swashbuckler 1 Halfling has +14 w/o items (18 base dex), get a cloak.

[Rixx]

I think you'll have to take a special feat that would let you convince the DM that this is allowable.

[Curmudgeon]

Rogue 1/Monk 1/Ranger 1/Swashbuckler 1 Halfling has +14 w/o items (18 base dex), get a cloak.

Don't forget Favored Souls; they have the same good saves as Monks.

[olentu]

Are you using the 3.0 version of deflect arrows since I believe that the reflex save was removed in 3.5.

[Kyrthain]

Are you using the 3.0 version of deflect arrows since I believe that the reflex save was removed in 3.5.

Well what do you know! You're right! So, we don't need reflex save auto success.

Cool.

[AstralFire]

Infinite Deflection: The worst thought-out feat in the ELH, after Epic Casting.

[sofawall]

What about Distant Shot or w/e it's called, the one that let's you shoot faster than the speed of light?

[Kyrthain]

What about Distant Shot or w/e it's called, the one that let's you shoot faster than the speed of light?

Thing is, we can already do that.

[ZeroNumerous]

So. Dex 25.

Monk 2/Whatever 7 Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold: Base DEX 18 + 2 from Race + 4 from an Item + 2 from levels. Total: 26 DEX. 9th level rolls around: Take Infinite Deflection.

Now the only problem with your loop is getting the arrow to hit someone else.

[Sliver]

Not only the arrow moves faster then light.. So are the monks that throw it among themselves..
I would say that it is a touch attack that catches the opponent flat-footed.. Fast moving and armor won't stop that...

[sofawall]

Thing is, we can already do that.

Liar.


Nowhere here, on BG, Gleemax or EN World has anyone, to my knowledge, even hit the moon without going epic. And you need to shoot a lot farther than the moon to go to light speed.

[AstralFire]

What about Distant Shot or w/e it's called, the one that let's you shoot faster than the speed of light?

I consider Infinite Deflection worse because it completely nullifies an entire character type, ranged attackers.

I mean, even if you remove 9th-level/epic spellcasting entirely, it's completely trivial for an epic game with the rest of the classes to consist of just laughing at the archers. It was bad enough in 3.0, Deflect Arrows needing no save now seals it.

All they had to do was make a single feat that lets an epic archer bypass it or get another chance or something. A single one. And it never occurred to them. An Epic Archer against an Epic Monk consists of the archer crying before breaking his bow in two and trying to club the monk with it.

[Sliver]

And you need to shoot a lot farther than the moon to go to light speed.

Is that assuming that what you throw flies 6 seconds? 'cuz it's not true ya know?
If you throw as a standard action, you could move before. So now it flies less then 6 seconds. Also, it doesn't count in that it takes time for you to throw the item. If you shoot arrows to the moon, and you have stuff like rapid shot, you could shoot about plenty of arrows.. If you assume they are shot with some time between eachother, at least the last arrow has to fly for about a second..
Now, if you can shoot/throw something at the moon, you can probably shoot it at the sun too.

Anyway, as I understand it, in D&D an object's speed is exactly how much it takes the object to reach its destination in the same round.. So if you shoot at the start of your turn at someone who is 10 feet away, the arrow might as well fly with a speed of 1.66 fps, while if you are shooting in the last second at something a couple of miles away.. Well you get the picture..
An arrow is never late, it arrives no later then the end of the turn.

Edit:

An Epic Archer against an Epic Monk consists of the archer crying before breaking his bow in two and trying to club the monk with it.

If its a flaming bow, does the damage add to melee attacks too?

[Keld Denar]

Isn't there a Swordsage stance that lets you shift 5' every time someone misses you? INFINITE MOVEMENT!

ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

EDIT: So, Monk/SS1 readies an action to shoot Monk/SS2 if he tries to initiate a manevuer.

Monk/SS2 initiates Ring of Fire, triggering the readied action.

Arrow bounces back and forth continuously, both monks 5' stepping with each deflection until they travel AROUND THE WORLD.

World bursts into flame and everyone in it takes 12d6 save for half!