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Thread: Changing LA
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2009-08-08, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Changing LA
I was talking to my DM (he offered that, instead of a Rock Gnome, I could be a Svirfneblin), and we have been talking about how much we both hate LA. We'd rather have RHD, in most cases, than an equal LA, because LA puts you pretty far behind... even non-casters feel the hit.
So, what I came up with (this is via text... he hasn't even responded yet) is to allow a 1 for 1 replacement of LA with NPC class levels (or RHD, if you prefer your RHD). This gives everyone a bit of a boost... HD, saves, skills, BAB... instead of the dead nothingness of LA. It doesn't help casters nearly as much as non-casters, however, because it doesn't add to caster level... at best, it will give you a feat with which to take Practiced Spellcaster and keep your caster level, if not your spells per day, up to snuff.
It is, right now, just an idea I tossed off. What do y'all think?The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
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2009-08-08, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
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2009-08-08, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Changing LA
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2009-08-08, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Changing LA
I prefer LA-buyoff
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/ra...djustments.htm
While LA may seem steep, your proposed fix gives non-casters no reason to not take races with LA for the most part, so I see your proposed fix a lot like gestalt, it'll create a higher powered game, but if that's what you want, then it could work, just beware of outsiders.
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2009-08-08, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Re: Changing LA
Off hand, i can't think of any races that I'd want to play the LA buyoff wouldn't cover. It's my preferred method (Or just ignoring it if the LA is +1).
I don't think I'd take racial hit dice over it, honestly.Characters
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2009-08-08, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- San Antonio, Texas
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Re: Changing LA
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2009-08-08, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Changing LA
Well, reducing LA helps melee a buttload, especially if you have a good Racial HD. Outsiders, oh, man... Aasimar become useful again.
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2009-08-08, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Changing LA
It also makes Outsiders incredibly overpowered as characters, since the Oursider HD is excellent. Full BAB, all good saves and 8 skill points per level? Couple that with the nifty tricks Outsiders get, and you've made an utter monster. Combine with Tiefling/Aasimar or Half-fiend/Celestial for maximum cheese. A, say, Astral Deva thus has fighter BAB, Rogue skills and Monk saves, in addition to a bevy of SLAs. Such as Holy Word.
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2009-08-08, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Changing LA
You say they're missing class abilities, but they do gain "class abilities" in the form of their racial ones. If the race you're taking is strong enough (ie outsiders or dragons) then the abilities you're getting along with strong basics (decent HD, BAB, skills, saves) should more than account for the few levels that are "unclassed".
Last edited by Kylarra; 2009-08-08 at 05:33 PM.
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2009-08-08, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Changing LA
I'm definitely seeing it WRT to Outsider and Dragon HD. Ok, I'd probably roll back on those, then, making it only NPC class levels.
The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2009-08-08, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Changing LA
With LA buyout, an LA of max +2, and a campaign of enough levels, I would definitely rather take the LA... For higher LA's? Really depends on what kind of RHD you are taking. Since you are focused on melee chars here, any race that gives full BaB would end up being more powerful than usual, as you are only going to be losing out on some class abilities but still getting saves, hitpoints, feats, skill points, and tasty tasty base attack. Not to mention, whatever nifty racial abilities that persuaded you to take monsterX in the first place.
In a core game, I would have no problem with this as melee needs whatever boost it can get. If you are playing with melee fixes tho, I would be a bit cautious here..Last edited by daggaz; 2009-08-08 at 05:41 PM.
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2009-08-09, 06:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- Flawse Fell, Geordieland
Re: Changing LA
CR+1 as base level for a "from the MM" non-standard creature should fit the bill. You're giving up x levels of a real, meaningful class, or possibly monk, in order to play a creature of (roughly) equivalent power. The +1 level cost (no LA) pays for elite array stats and that PC glow.
eg: Kuo-Tao costs 3 levels, Centaur or Ogre 4, Harpy 5, Fire Giant 11, etc.
No puzzle monsters (hags, mind flayers), glass hammer fey (grigs, sprites, pixies) or invisible [awesome] tagged monsters (outsiders, dragons, beholders) need apply.
BECMI did it better of course...Last edited by bosssmiley; 2009-08-09 at 06:19 AM.
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2009-08-09, 06:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- The midwest.
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2009-08-09, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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Re: Changing LA
Why I dislike LA buyoff:
At low levels, it does nothing for you... you're still levels behind everyone in saves, HP, skills, etc. If starting at high levels, being able to say "Oh, I bought off my LA, so my Fiendish Human is the same level as your regular human." In between times, the way that 3.x XP works means that being a level behind the party (when you bought off your LA) doesn't impact you nearly as much, provided you're getting to make up that level... being level 6 while everyone else is level 7 means you get more XP, and will catch up.
In short, LA buyoff results in LA not being a long-term difficulty... but leaves LA as a short-term difficulty for low-level characters. This version results in LA always affecting those with it... but not so severely that they're unplayable at low levels, or unaffected at higher levels.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
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2009-08-09, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Norway
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Re: Changing LA
What about savage progression? link
check out my metal band: http://www.facebook.com/Dreamslain
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2009-08-09, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2009-08-09, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: Changing LA
well, I mostly play for the fluff.
A vampire (standard La +8) with 2 or 3 lvls from savage progression completely covers my fluff needs
The same for a lot of other monsters as well.
If you don't strip the LA-heavy monsters of their abilities, and don't use LA, why would anyone play LA 0-characters?check out my metal band: http://www.facebook.com/Dreamslain
Wash: "Sweetie, we're crooks. If everything were right, we'd be in jail."
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2009-08-09, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2009-08-09, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Changing LA
A good point, but I've been thinking for a while on this subject..
A lot of the people who prefer 3.5 to 4th cite the idea that not everything has to be balanced to be enjoyable. Similarly, in a diceless Marvel Superheroes RP book I have sitting around, it very much points out that not all heroes are created equal, and that especially if you use pre-existing characters, there will be hugely disperate power levels.
Perhaps, with this in mind, and in such a group, some people will happily still play humans and dwarves, and so on, alongside the Vampire and the young Dragon. Especially if there is more to the campaign/session than mere combat, admittedly.
Definately not an always way of doing things. But I can very much see that it could still be fun. And if you think about what LA and Racial HD actually represent, is still essentially a little shy of really modelling the way things actually are.
I'd be interested in seeing how a campaign in which character level is the only actual level measured would turn out, but as interesting hijinks to read, as well as on the level of a weird kind of social experiment! :)
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2009-08-09, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Changing LA
Admittedly that does sound like an interesting experiment, but I can't say that I'd particularly want to play Joe Sidekick (norms) in that sort of game. It would be greatly swingy depending on the monster-chars involved and what their particular specialties are, but with a plethora of racial abilities in addition to class abilities, when push comes to shove in a given area, the norms are going to be outshone except in their particular gimmick (if any).
It kind of sucks to be normal among supers after allLast edited by Kylarra; 2009-08-09 at 03:36 PM.