How to Kill the Wizard at Level 10 [PEACH]

[Hat-Trick]

THE WISE FOOL

"All powerful mage? Oh! you mean the little man in the pajamas! You have an odd definition of all powerful."
-- Azriel Torr, a Wise Fool

Many quake at the thought of mocking those trained in the arts of magic. Others are fool hardy enough to do it. It is a select few, however, that can survive a mages wrath and come back for a rematch. And win. In fact none are known in all of history that weren't a mage themselves. Oddly enough, there has been a rise of normal beings taunting those well versed in the ways of magic with their unsettling laughter and eerily chipper mood, all of which claim to have been nearly destroyed by the very powers they now mock. These few have been labeled collectively as Wise Fools, for reasons explainable only by those who have met them.
Hit Dice: d8

Requirements
To qualify to become a Wise Fool, a character must fulfill the all the following criteria.

Base Attack Bonus: +3
Skills: Intimidate 8ranks
Feats: Iron Will
Special: Must have been taken into negative hit points, or died, due to magic, either directly or indirectly.

Class Skills
The Wise Fool's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge Arcana (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Use Rope (Dex)

Skill Points at Each Level: 4+Int Modifier

Class Features
All the Following are class features of the Wise Fool.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Wise Fools are proficient with simple weapons, with light armor, and shields (except tower shields).
Unsettling Laughter (Ex): At first level, A Wise Fool has an oddly creepy laugh that sets most people on edge, so creepy, in fact that spellcasters are known to lose concentration on spells they try to cast. Any time a spellcaster tries to cast a spell while with in hearing distance, they must first make a successful opposed Concentration check against the Wise Fool's Intimidate Check or automatically lost the spell. This ability works even if magically unable to speak, but the Wise Fool must be able to vocalize otherwise, so a gag or similar will stop the effect.
Confident Chuckle (Ex): at second level, Wise Fools are so confident in their victory over any spellcaster, that a small chuckle can free them from adverse effects caused by spells. The Wise Fool takes a swift action to force an opposed Intimidate Check against the caster's Concentration check to remove any spell effect currently affecting him. He can take this action, even if he magically couldn't otherwise act and when paralyzed or under similar conditions, but not while unconscious and can't remove the effect unless it's magical in origin.
Ever Smiling (Ex): At third level, Wise Fools are almost always smiling or cheerful in some way, and this allows them to potentially ignore all magic attacks directed at them. Any time a Wise Fool would be adversely effected by a spell, they may force an opposed Intimidate Check against the offending Spellcaster's Concentration Check to negate any effect it would have had on the Wise Fool. This ability automatically dispels any summoned or animated creature, substance, or object that attacks the Wise Fool if it's summoner fails the opposed roll. The roll is repeated every time the Wise Fool is attacked by such entities. This ability also grants the Wise Fool immunity to fear of any kind, or any effect that would negatively affects the Wise Fool's mood.
Baleful Howl (Ex): At fourth level, a Wise Fool becomes so insanely unsettling, that they can disrupt magical effects affecting other beings. This ability works the same as Confident Chuckle, but may be used to remove any effect currently affecting any ally within hearing range.
Snickering Hell (Ex): At fifth level, a Wise Fool finds magic so humorous, that they can break out in a fit of laughter that severely disrupts all magic near-by. By taking a full round action, a Wise Fool suppresses all magical effects currently active and makes casting of any sort impossible within a 120ft radius. This effect stays active for ten rounds or until the Wise Fool is made unable to continue laughing in any mundane fashion, such as being gagged, knocked unconsious, stunned, dazed or similar, although the he is free to avoid such attempts to the best of his abilities.


Yeah... This class brings the food chain full circle, I believe. It was made to make magic relatively irrelevant, while keeping the character mildly squishy to everything else. Please, any constructive comments are welcome.

[Hat-Trick]

((Reserved to post changes and update information.))

1. Due to my own ineptitude, I forgot BAB and Save Progressions. Wise Fools have 3/4 BAB and Good Will and Fort saves.

[Kaihaku]

Unsettling Laughter (Ex): At first level, A Wise Fool has an oddly creepy laugh that sets most people on edge, so creepy, in fact that spellcasters are known to lose concentration on spells they try to cast. Any time a spellcaster tries to cast a spell while with in hearing distance, they must first make a successful opposed Concentration check against the Wise Fool's Intimidate Check or automatically lost the spell. This ability works even if magically unable to speak, but the Wise Fool must be able to vocalize otherwise, so a gag or similar will stop the effect.

What about a magical effect that prevents speaking not sound? Like dropping a Wall of Sand on top of him?

Confident Chuckle (Ex): at second level, Wise Fools are so confident in their victory over any spellcaster, that a small chuckle can free them from adverse effects caused by spells. The Wise Fool takes a swift action to force an opposed Intimidate Check against the caster's Concentration check to remove any spell effect currently affecting him. He can take this action, even if he magically couldn't otherwise act and when paralyzed or under similar conditions, but not while unconscious and can't remove the effect unless it's magical in origin.

Magical in origin... Does this include magical items and spell-like abilities? Alchemy?

This should probably be Intimidate VS. Caster Level not Concentration. I think it's a Supernatural Ability as well.

Ever Smiling (Ex): At third level, Wise Fools are almost always smiling or cheerful in some way, and this allows them to potentially ignore all magic attacks directed at them. Any time a Wise Fool would be adversely effected by a spell, they may force an opposed Intimidate Check against the offending Spellcaster's Concentration Check to negate any effect it would have had on the Wise Fool. This ability automatically dispels any summoned or animated creature, substance, or object that attacks the Wise Fool if it's summoner fails the opposed roll. The roll is repeated every time the Wise Fool is attacked by such entities.

How does this apply to spells with a duration of instantaneous or that ignore spell resistance (and thus spell immunity)? Does this, effectively, provide immunity versus magical weapons as well?

This also should probably be Intimidate VS. Caster Level not Concentration. And again it seems more like a Supernatural Ability to me rather than an Extraordinary Ability.

This ability also grants the Wise Fool immunity to fear of any kind, or any effect that would negatively affects the Wise Fool's mood.

This applies to more than just magical effects then? So a Fighter with Intimidate couldn't Intimidate a Wise Fool?

Baleful Howl (Ex): At fourth level, a Wise Fool becomes so insanely unsettling, that they can disrupt magical effects affecting other beings. This ability works the same as Confident Chuckle, but may be used to remove any effect currently affecting any ally within hearing range.

This also seems more like Supernatural than Extraordinary to me. A laugh that can dispel magic is supernatural.

Snickering Hell (Ex): At fifth level, a Wise Fool finds magic so humorous, that they can break out in a fit of laughter that severely disrupts all magic near-by. By taking a full round action, a Wise Fool suppresses all magical effects currently active and makes casting of any sort impossible within a 120ft radius. This effect stays active for ten rounds or until the Wise Fool is made unable to continue laughing in any mundane fashion, such as being gagged, knocked unconsious, stunned, dazed or similar, although the he is free to avoid such attempts to the best of his abilities.

Define 'magical effects'. Does this apply to spell-like abilities? What about constructs, undead, or other magically animated beings? Magical traps? I have no problem with a David to the spellcaster's Goliath but this would have broad implications on the broader game and would screw over a lot of common challenges.

I understand that you want a Wise Fool to serve as a trump card aganist magic so I won't comment on the power level... But this should really be once a day.

[Milskidasith]

So it's a class that can, at will, shut down all magic in the area? Also, concentration checks versus intimidate makes more sense because caster level can be boosted much less than concentration.

[Hat-Trick]

Okay, to answer the questions:

1. Being buried would stop Unsettling Laughter, it is like a gag in that is stops the Wise Fool from talking and isn't magical, but if magic it used to make him buried, it can be stopped.
2. Items, SLAs, but not alchemy, which is basically chemistry.
3. The Skill vs. Skill keeps it at an even level. Everything that can boost one side can boost the other, practically.
4. Ever Smiling works on instantaneous and no SR spells.
5. It allows the Wise Fool to ignore the extra damage or other direct affects caused by enhancement, but the plus to hit and things like keen where the effects don't directly cause adverse effects work. Vorpal doesn't work on a success, although it's still a critical.
6. It's Extraordinary, because it would still work in an AMF. This may be subject to change.
7. No, you can't intimidate them. You can stab them easily enough, but intimidate doesn't work.
8. It affects SLAs, but constructs and undead are explained as being okay in an AMF, so they aren't affected in the Snickering Hell. Magical traps are affected, though.

These are subject to change and debate, but for now stand as thus.

[AstralFire]

I... don't think you understand where the trouble with Wizards springs from. Just... search through the gaming forum, find the first thread with 5 or more pages that involves the word 'Wizard' 'Spellcaster' or 'Balance' in the title. Should answer you.

'Arms race' balancing doesn't work very well, and this class pretty much is just not even fair if put against anyone playing a 2E style blaster/healer caster, or the specialized splat casters (warmage/beguiler/duskblade/warlock/etc.)

[Origomar]

I can imagine this guy laughing and stopping all magic, the mage POed pulls out his staff and smashes his mouth in.



...probably wouldnt happen, but it would be funny.

[Kaihaku]

So it's a class that can, at will, shut down all magic in the area? Also, concentration checks versus intimidate makes more sense because caster level can be boosted much less than concentration.

It makes sense from a 'balance' prospective, though this class is hardly about that, but it doesn't make sense otherwise. There are few spells that require concentration to remain up, once they're active they function on their own, so suddenly saying that the caster, who may be miles away or even on another plane, has to make a concentration check to keep that illusion up he cast earlier seems kind of off to me.

If a wizard used shrink item on a boulder, flew over a wise fool, and then returned that boulder to its normal size...how would that be any different from 'teleporting' in acid or water or what not through a conjuration effect? I can understand interfering with the act of 'teleporting' a substance but once it's there I don't follow why it should be treated any different from something that was always there.

[Hat-Trick]

Summoned monsters pop out of existence in an antimagic field, hence being dispelled by one of the abilities. It's in the book, not me making things up (that I can remember, at least. If it is I'll happily change it).

For forcing the concentration check, it's mostly for in combat stuff. Notice that he can't dispel anything not actually effecting someone. He can get rid of Dominate on his buddy, sure, but he's got nothing to dispel the alarm set around the campsite. He can suppress it, but it's still there when the affect wears out. For the most part, he's dispelling stuff as it's happening or a round or two after and only if it affects himself or another.

[Kaihaku]

Summoned monsters pop out of existence in an antimagic field, hence being dispelled by one of the abilities. It's in the book, not me making things up (that I can remember, at least. If it is I'll happily change it).

I know, I'm not talking about monsters though, I'm talking about...

(The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

For forcing the concentration check, it's mostly for in combat stuff. Notice that he can't dispel anything not actually effecting someone. He can get rid of Dominate on his buddy, sure, but he's got nothing to dispel the alarm set around the campsite. He can suppress it, but it's still there when the affect wears out. For the most part, he's dispelling stuff as it's happening or a round or two after and only if it affects himself or another.

I understand how it works, I just don't think it should be VS. Concentration unless the caster is actually casting the spell or maintaining it.

[Hat-Trick]

So, the census is switch it to caster level instead of Concentration, then? Is going from Skill vs Skill to Skill vs Level good, then? I guess I can change that.

[Milskidasith]

The consensus is that it makes sense to balance it skill versus skill, the flavor makes no sense for it to require concentration, and the class isn't an effective way of nerfing casters. At high levels casters will just be able to avoid him anyway, or have contingencies set up to kill him before he can even use his abilities, and at low levels he just makes the mage completely useless, which is no fun.

I mean, what's the point? He either gets owned by the thing he's supposed to protect, or he ruins all magic users, including his allies. Either way, it doesn't seem very fun.

[Hat-Trick]

Well, that's why it's here. Any suggestions on how to make it work as intended? I have no problems with wizards being able to avoid the class, although by contingencies, do you mean the magical kind you get one of for every HD, or just have a buddy run up and stab him? The latter I have no problem with, really. Should I change the entrance requirements to allow first access at a later level to avoid the completely useless mage? Because that was half of the point, to be honest.

[Milskidasith]

Look, he's either going to kill mages or get killed by them instantly. It doesn't matter what you do; the problem is with the spell list, not with the lack of ability to kill a wizard; one good hit could kill a wizard, but nothing you can ever do will let you hit him.

[SilentNight]

Where's the BAB and save progression?

[Hat-Trick]

Crapstick, I knew I was forgetting something.

EDIT: Stated BAB and Save progressions in the updates. Unfortunately, I have no clue as to how to make the nice little tables.

On the note of the problem being the spell list, there's not much I can do to stop that short of giving the Wise Fool the ability to make wizards forget their spells and/or erase their spellbooks.