Silly bonuses

[snoopy13a]

As one could probably tell from my avatar, I'm a hobbit fan.

Anyway, in 3.5 halflings get a +2 bonus to jump due to being agile and all that

However, the problem results with hobbits' (enough of this halfling copyright b.s. ) strength and speed modifiers.

Unfortunately, hobbits get a -6 modifier due to their 20' speed in addition to their de facto -1 modifier for the -2 strength race penatly.

So, the +2 jump bonus is really a -5 jump bonus when you think about it.

Anyone else think of apparent "bonuses" that really aren't that?

[Eldariel]

Well, there's the whole "Sai"-thing, which has the awesome +4 to disarming...and is a light weapon thus giving it effective -8 to disarm compared to two-handers!

This leads to the ridiculousness of Quarterstaff being the best Monk-weapon for disarming even though Sai is apparently designed with disarming mind.

[erikun]

Elves are supposed to be the great wizards on D&D 3.5 core, but the don't really show it. They have a +2 Dex (+1 AC, +1 to hit with ranged), a -2 Con (-1 HP/level), and proficiency with a longbow. That's about it, since +2 Spot isn't going to matter much to a wizard.

Compared to Gnome Wizards, the Gnome has the same AC, same to hit with ranged, but an additional +4 Con. This comes out to +2 HP/level, or nearly twice the HP of an Elven Wizard.

Halfling Wizards not only have higher AC (small and Dex bonus) along with a higher to hit, then don't have the Con penality (so +1 HP/level over Elves).

Hows that for the "great" Elven Wizards?

[Saph]

Dwarves in Tolkien-style fantasy are typically thought of as one of the races who don't like arcane magic very much, and their D&D fluff generally goes the same way.

But their stats actually make them really good wizards. They get a +2 to Con (a wizard's second most important stat), a -2 to Cha (who cares?), a bonus on saves against poison (helps counteract the wizard's weak Fort save) and most of all, a flat +2 bonus on all saves against spells and spell-likes, making them excellent spell duellists.

So the supposedly suspicious-of-arcane-magic dwarves actually make better wizards than high elves do. :P

- Saph

[Milskidasith]

Some wild animals having a bonus to constitution, despite the fact that humans are, in fact, one of the best creatures (in our world) in terms of long distance running and other constitution based things.

[AstralFire]

I really like dwarf aesthetics, especially 4E style - they remind me of Lugian magic in Asheron's Call. So Dwarf mages are really cool in my book. Though I'll admit that elves can be pretty cool too. Just... not when they look like Mialee.



(...Though this CGI render I found is pretty nice, it doesn't look anything like Mialee at all. Though that's part of why it looks so nice.)

I've always thought the XPH's races had some silly bonuses. 1 or 2 extra power points at first level really help a first level Psion or Wilder, but that really speaks more to how unnecessarily low PP is at first and second level than anything else. So your race makes powerful psions... but they have a minimal at best increase of endurance compared to a human? Huh?

Also: Familiars.

Hah.

Hah!

HAH!

[Sinfire Titan]

Also: Familiars.

Hah.

Hah!

HAH!

Yeah, some of those never made sense. Frogs give +3 HP (or +2 Con in 3.0)? And no Improved Familiar gives skill bonuses?

Psicraft is the skill needed to know what Psionic powers actually are, but the PsiWar doesn't get the skill at all. As-is, they have no way to ID a Power as it is being manifested (like it matters if they are just going to smack the manifester anyway).

A PrC that was practically hand-made for the Favored Soul in the very book it was reprinted in (the Divine Oracle, for those wondering about the class) requires 13 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) just to enter. K (Arcana) is the only Knowledge skill Favored Souls have. Likewise, the Anarchic Initiate was tailor-crafted for the Wilder. Except the Wilder doesn't get Knowledge (the Planes)...

Both the Paladin and Ranger do not have Spellcraft as a class skill. This means that an untrained Paladin can never identify a Bestow Curse spell while the curse is active, and thus is unable to determine (by himself) if someone could use his Remove Curse class feature.

Being an Alchemist means taking ranks in Craft (Alchemy). In order to create an item using that craft skill, you have to be able to cast spells (RAW, SLAs do not qualify). This means a Rogue can never make use of a decent mid-level optimization tactic.

Speaking of Rogues and Alchemy, Splash Weapons can deliver Sneak Attack, despite not being able to specifically target a creature's vital points. The added insult to injury is that their Sneak Attack damage changes to match the type of weapon they are using (Acid for Acid, Fire for Alchemist's Fire, etc).

Thunderstones deafen but deal no sonic damage. This never made sense to me (a noise loud enough to deafen is almost always loud enough to cause pain).


The Craft Skill can be used to make people. Read the rules on it, then tell me that a human being is not capable of asexual reproduction in Core DnD by RAW.

[John Campbell]

Some wild animals having a bonus to constitution, despite the fact that humans are, in fact, one of the best creatures (in our world) in terms of long distance running and other constitution based things.

Some of them (e.g., horses) get Endurance, too, and if we don't all get that as a racial bonus feat, there's basically no natural animal that should. It's the up side of pretty much everything being, pound for pound, stronger than we are... we can run them into the ground.

That's more in the category of "unrealistic bonuses" than "silly bonuses", though, and if we go there, I won't be able to stop until I've dismembered pretty much the entire combat system.


Dwarves totally should make the best mages, though. We're talking here about the race that the gods go to when they want magic items made, after all. Cloaks for hiding in the bushes, little night lights, sure, ask the elves. But if you want a hammer of thunderbolts, a girdle of strength, a spear that never misses, a longship that collapses to a convenient pocket size, hair of purest gold (not a metaphor) that grows like the real thing... you ask the dwarves.

[Riffington]

Dwarves totally should make the best mages, though. We're talking here about the race that the gods go to when they want magic items made, after all. Cloaks for hiding in the bushes, little night lights, sure, ask the elves. But if you want a hammer of thunderbolts, a girdle of strength, a spear that never misses, a longship that collapses to a convenient pocket size, hair of purest gold (not a metaphor) that grows like the real thing... you ask the dwarves.

Yeah but that type of dwarf was renamed "gnome".

[Milskidasith]

Some of them (e.g., horses) get Endurance, too, and if we don't all get that as a racial bonus feat, there's basically no natural animal that should. It's the up side of pretty much everything being, pound for pound, stronger than we are... we can run them into the ground.

Yeah, I guess it is an unrealistic bonus instead of a silly one. I saw a sped up video of how tribal natives in Africa hunt in modern day; imagine the typical tribal warrior guy chasing around a gazelle, except in Nikes and with a few bottles of generic bottled water with him, running until the gazelle collapsed. It's pretty amazing stuff actually.

[snoopy13a]

Dwarves in Tolkien-style fantasy are typically thought of as one of the races who don't like arcane magic very much, and their D&D fluff generally goes the same way.

The funny thing is that Tolkien-style dwarves don't always correspond with actual Tolkien.

Tolkien-style dwarves are supposed to be gruff beer drinkers who hate magic. Some "non-stereotypical" things that the dwarves do in The Hobbit is:

1) They cast spells over the treasure obtained from the trolls
2) Not all drink beer. Thorin actually prefers wine
3) They have a magic map to find a magic door
4) They are proficient in musical instruments

[AstralFire]

To be fair, nothing is stopping a human with PB from getting an 18 Con, the Endurance feat, the Run Feat, and then eventually the Dash Feat. I daresay I would not be able to keep up with a horse.

The horse, on the other hand, does not have much of a choice in the matter of its feats.

[SinsI]

To be fair, nothing is stopping a human with PB from getting an 18 Con, the Endurance feat, the Run Feat, and then eventually the Dash Feat. I daresay I would not be able to keep up with a horse.

The horse, on the other hand, does not have much of a choice in the matter of its feats.

Errr... What? IRL horses are only fast at short distances, cavalry covers just as much ground as a foot soldier in a day.

[AstralFire]

Errr... What? IRL horses are only fast at short distances, cavalry covers just as much ground as a foot soldier in a day.

I'm not nearly as physically fit as a soldier. I put my feats in stuff like "Skill Focus (Craft (Writing))" and "Skill Focus (Surf the Web)" is my point, while a human dedicated towards endurance would be able to beat a horse at it, I'm sure.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

You know, when you chat on the Internet, no one can tell that you're a little horse.

[Jade_Tarem]

I've always found the total lack of a bonus given for wearing a helmet in 3.5 to be pretty hilarious. I keep thinking that somewhere, somehow, the following conversation took place in DnD land:

"Moooooooooooommmm! I'm going over to Ricky's house!"

"Be sure to wear your helmet when you ride your bike, dear."

"Aww... why? It's hot and itchy and it doesn't even boost my AC!"

[Starscream]

Elves are not affected by Ghoul paralysis. That's it. Don't get even so much as a +1 against other types of paralysis (unless it's an enchantment spell), and it doesn't work if the ghoul has 4 or more HD (i.e., is actually a Ghast). I'm not even sure if this is something weird about elves, or something weird about ghouls. Just seems like a completely random trait.

Oh, and they have Spidey-senses for secret doors. Why? Are there lots of secret doors in forests?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Elves are not affected by Ghoul paralysis. That's it. Don't get even so much as a +1 against other types of paralysis (unless it's an enchantment spell), and it doesn't work if the ghoul has 4 or more HD (i.e., is actually a Ghast). I'm not even sure if this is something weird about elves, or something weird about ghouls. Just seems like a completely random trait.

Legacy. I'm not sure what the original reason was, but that and the immunity to sleep are classic D&D and originally made sense IIRC.

Oh, and they have Spidey-senses for secret doors. Why? Are there lots of secret doors in forests?

Same reason. The Elf race has a lot of legacy cruft attached to it, leading to Vulcan Syndrome.

[Agrippa]

Legacy. I'm not sure what the original reason was, but that and the immunity to sleep are classic D&D and originally made sense IIRC.

Well elves are immune to ghoul paralysis because it's powered by negative energy. Elves have more positive energy in them than other races. They're just too alive for ghoul paraylsis to work. Sort of like Captain Jack Harkness. Yet for some reason they get saddled with a Constitution penalty.

[Starscream]

Legacy. I'm not sure what the original reason was, but that and the immunity to sleep are classic D&D and originally made sense IIRC.

I only started playing late into 2nd edition, but I imagine that's the reason for a lot of this stuff.

The Vancian magic system, for instance. I like it, but pretty much every other gaming system in history has taken one look at it and decided to implement mana points or something like that instead.

Probably D&D would have done the same if such a concept existed at the time, but they were the first and the writings of Jack Vance were the best way of quantifying someone's magical abilities that existed at the time. And they stuck with it all the way until 4th Edition, because that's just how magic is done in D&D.

[John Campbell]

I'm not nearly as physically fit as a soldier. I put my feats in stuff like "Skill Focus (Craft (Writing))" and "Skill Focus (Surf the Web)" is my point, while a human dedicated towards endurance would be able to beat a horse at it, I'm sure.

You don't need "dedicated towards endurance." You just need - nothing personal; this probably applies to most of us - someone who's not an out-of-shape couch (or computer-chair) potato with a house full of labor-saving devices. Like your basic adventurer, or common farmer (you ever spent a day on the snath end of a scythe? It's hard work), or, well, pretty much anyone living in a medievaloid world who's not right on top of the heap.

It's not about voluntary focus; it's down to fundamental biological differences. Human musculature is weaker and slower, but fatigues less quickly, than the predominant muscle type on other adult animals. That means that they're faster than we are - both reflexes and, usually, ground speed - and they're pound-for-pound stronger, but they tire out more quickly. They might be able to leave us in their dust on the sprint, but when they have to stop to rest, we come jogging up behind them and make them run again. And again, and again, until they drop from exhaustion. The Plains tribes used to catch mustangs this way. As Milskidasith pointed out, African tribes used to - and still do - hunt this way. If the race is long enough, Slow-and-Steady (that's us) wins.

You know, when you chat on the Internet, no one can tell that you're a little horse.

You should take some throat drops for that.

[Teron]

I've always thought the XPH's races had some silly bonuses. 1 or 2 extra power points at first level really help a first level Psion or Wilder, but that really speaks more to how unnecessarily low PP is at first and second level than anything else. So your race makes powerful psions... but they have a minimal at best increase of endurance compared to a human? Huh?

Besides increasing manifesters' staying power for the first couple of levels, those bonus power points have one significant effect: they let those races take psionic feats regardless of their class (and without blowing a feat on Wild Talent). I think it's actually a fairly clever bit of design that encourages them to have a touch of psionic power no matter their class.

[Gorgondantess]

Well, really, the reason that grey elves were made in the first place is to make elves more wizard-y. +2 to the most important stat? Yes please.

[AstralFire]

Besides increasing manifesters' staying power for the first couple of levels, those bonus power points have one significant effect: they let those races take psionic feats regardless of their class (and without blowing a feat on Wild Talent). I think it's actually a fairly clever bit of design that encourages them to have a touch of psionic power no matter their class.

I just thought the Kalashtar's version was more sensible, getting 1 PP per level.

[Gnorman]

Well, really, the reason that grey elves were made in the first place is to make elves more wizard-y. +2 to the most important stat? Yes please.

Yes, but then they also made the Lesser Tiefling, which is basically a grey elf that trades the CON and STR penalties for a CHA penalty, which is again probably the dumpiest dump stat for a wizard - even wizards need to carry stuff, but who needs to be charming? They make a spell for that.

Elven wizards are obsolete. All of their bonuses are crap for the profession - for a race that's supposedly "good at everything" they sure aren't good at much. Maybe looking pretty and poncey and arrogant. CON is the only stat that remains important no matter what class you are.

Sorry, total derail to bash on elves. I consider it a necessary evil, though.

[TheCountAlucard]

Just seems like a completely random trait.

It was because of the fact that D&D was originally a wargame, IIRC, and that ghoul armies were a tad on the cheap side, and combined with their paralysis ability, would utterly obliterate opposing armies. They decided to make the elves immune to paralysis, and it stuck.

[Kaihaku]

CON is the only stat that remains important no matter what class you are.

I'd contend that Intelligence is important no matter what class, race, or prestige class you are. Super melee who can't manage to climb, jump, swim, or find their foes are more screwed than a spellcaster missing a few hitpoints. Low constitution hurts, definitely, but low Intelligence is stupid...

[Myou]

I'd contend that Intelligence is important no matter what class, race, or prestige class you are. Super melee who can't manage to climb, jump, swim, or find their foes are more screwed than a spellcaster missing a few hitpoints. Low constitution hurts, definitely, but low Intelligence is stupid...

Con is far more inportant then Int though. Even if you had no skills at all, as long as one member of your party does it's fine.

And any casting class that doesn't run on Int can forget it entirely - that's what spells are for.

What's more, many classes give enough skill poits to cover anything really crucial even if you have 8 int.

So con always matters no matter the class, whereas int is very often a dump stat along with cha.

[Kurald Galain]

Many racial bonuses or penalties to charisma get downright silly, but this is mostly due to the definition of charisma varying between physical beauty and arcane potential.

The default dwarven combat bonuses against goblins and giants. First, this should be dependent on setting; second, most settings have plenty of ancient wars for which the races do not get bonuses; and third, the bonuses don't make sense for several classes. Also, despite of this racial hatred, dwarves can learn to speak goblin fluently as one of their starting bonus languages.

I have no idea where the elves' bonus against sleep spells and charm effects comes from, actually. Or, for that matter, who made up the "elves do not sleep" bit.

Gnomes favoring the bard class. That's not even from the same mythology. And then there's the gnome's Burrowing Mammal Speech...

Oh yeah, in 4E, your eyesight improves while you're standing next to an elf. Even if the elf is unconscious.

[PId6]

CON is the only stat that remains important no matter what class you are.

Dread Necromancer: undeadify yourself as soon as possible.