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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default A quick question about Arcane Thesis

    I'm Building a character who specializes in metmagicd fireballs, and i have a simple question.

    Does the arcane thesis subtract one from the level of every meta magic feat (would it drop +1's to same levels) or just remove one added level total?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2006

    Default Re: A quick question.

    It can be read either way, but most naturally to my eyes it applies to each metamagic feat applied. That's good, but not too broken so long as you limit it to a minimum of +0 per feat. Where it's been abused is by combining high-cost metamagics with a bunch of +0 metamagics, so that the +0s become -1s and offset things like Quicken.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
    PairO'Dice Lost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Malsheem, Nessus

    Default Re: A quick question.

    Post-errata, the feat allows you to apply it once to each metamagic feat, even for a negative adjustment, as long as the final spell slot is no lower than the original, so with the fireball example you could cast an energy substituted (cold) (-1) silent (+1) fireball as a 3rd level spell, but an energy substituted (cold) fireball is still 3rd level.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
    tyckspoon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Default Re: A quick question.

    It applies to each metamagic feat; the errata adds an example that says so explicitly.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
    RTGoodman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Eastern NC

    Default Re: A quick question.

    Yes, it applies to each metamagic feat separately, but it can't be used to make the final spell level lower than the original. See the PHB2 errata.

    Quote Originally Posted by PHB2 Errata
    Page 74– Arcane Thesis [Substitution]
    Should read, “When you apply any metamagic feats
    other than Heighten Spell” Thus if you were to
    prepare an empowered maximized magic missile
    (assuming magic missile is the spell you choose for
    your Arcane Thesis), it would be prepared as a 4th
    level spell (+1 level for empowered, down from +2;
    and +2 levels for maximized, down from +3).

    Page 74 – Arcane Thesis [Omission]
    Add the following text to the end of the “Benefit”
    section: “A spell cannot be reduced to below its
    original level with the use of this feat.”
    Nothing, as far as I can tell, prevents it from working with +0 adjustment Metamagic feats (to make them effectively -1 spell level), but that would be a good houserule to make for balance's sake.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2009-08-12 at 04:14 PM.
    The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922

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