What would be the most difficult class combination to play

[oxinabox]

I don't mean because they are mechanically weak when combined;
(So i'm not talking archivist/barbarian)
I mean because they are mechanically Very Complex.

I say:
Factotum 10/Chameleon 10 (Dungeonscape/RoD)

There would be Nothing you couldn't do.
well except make a Saving throw, maybe.

You are everyclass - twice.
Canstantly having to decide what to be, who's role to fill.

[Kurald Galain]

This one...

[Gnorman]

It's not a combination, but:

Binder 20. I can't figure the buggers out.

[Tempest Fennac]

To use a Binder, you need to pick a number of Vestiges which will increase slowly when you level up. When you bind a Vestage, you need to make a Binding check (I think it's just a Cha check). If you pass it, you can supress the Sigh (physical change) or Influence (mental change) which the Vestage causes (eg: Buer causes you to get cloven hooves and memory black outs). Then you can either apply the abilities from the Vestages you bound at will or once every 5 rounds depending on the ability. A Vestage will stay with you for up to 24 hours once it's been bound.

[kamikasei]

Binders are conceptually straightforward, but choosing vestiges can be hard. I'd say the worst combination for overloading the player with decisions and tradeoffs while in play would probably be Binder/Totemist. Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge would also induce headaches.

[BobVosh]

Not really so much class combos...but this. So very complex.

[Gnorman]

To use a Binder, you need to pick a number of Vestiges which will increase slowly when you level up. When you bind a Vestage, you need to make a Binding check (I think it's just a Cha check). If you pass it, you can supress the Sigh (physical change) or Influence (mental change) which the Vestage causes (eg: Buer causes you to get cloven hooves and memory black outs). Then you can either apply the abilities from the Vestages you bound at will or once every 5 rounds depending on the ability. A Vestage will stay with you for up to 24 hours once it's been bound.

Oh, I understand how they work. It's just that... the huge number of vestiges is daunting. It's a hell of a slog to get through them all, and then I can never figure out which ones I want. It's just too much work to keep track of all of them!

[oxinabox]

Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge

Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge is sweet asnd easy to play.
It's basically the least MAD you can get for Mystice theurge.
I could run the spell lists for one of those, just as easily as for a wizard.

Kurald Galain
This one...

Wow That is quiet legendary.
Too bad it can't cast dark invocations. eh, still trashes anything...
I challange Anyone to play that.

[kamikasei]

Wizard/Archivist/Mystic Theurge is sweet asnd easy to play.
It's basically the least MAD you can get for Mystice theurge.
I could run the spell lists for one of those, just as easily as for a wizard.

Well, I suppose Wizard//Archivist would be worse, and Wizard//Cleric the absolute worst in this set since you have to choose from all Cleric spells ever for one side instead of having a pre-screened prayer book to narrow things down a bit for you. But really, you don't think managing such a spell list would be a hassle? Not in tracking what you have available and what you've already cast in a day, but in choosing how to fill it at the start of the day?

[Lord Loss]

The cake has been taken, Long Live the Cake.

[nysisobli]

I think it was paladin 6/dusk blade 5/mystic theruge 9? If i remember right XD

[Kaihaku]

The most difficult would definitely the Omnicaster (see above).

[Dhavaer]

Oh, I understand how they work. It's just that... the huge number of vestiges is daunting. It's a hell of a slog to get through them all, and then I can never figure out which ones I want. It's just too much work to keep track of all of them!

If you're starting at level 1 it shouldn't be too hard, as there are only 3-4 vestiges you can have then. As you level up and get access to more vestiges, you can slowly get used to them level by level.

[oxinabox]

Not in tracking what you have available and what you've already cast in a day, but in choosing how to fill it at the start of the day?

Nope, Simple.
I uses Spell sheets (one of my DM's gave them too me) it has all core spells (print off the Druid list, the Wizard list the cleric list, add ranger and palidin as needed by hand) with boxes to tick if you know them, spaces to write in how meny you prepared.
Boxes for how many of each leval you can cast, DC's for that.

Similar (but more complete and less neat) sheets are availabl from Crystal Keep.

I do lie a little: it would be slightly harder to run than a wizard cos archivist is slightly harder to run than a wizard - mulitple spell sheets, with 2 seperate rules for learning (learning when leveling and learning by reading)) as to what can come from what list.

But anyway if you don't find you have enough time, well you mystic theurge has to spend 2 in game hours preping, so the rest of the party may go on without you while you sit back and prepare.

[kamikasei]

Oxinabox, you've answered the question I was setting aside while ignoring the question I actually asked. Sure, you can use various organizational aids to make tracking the spells you've prepared easier. But you don't think taking hours to decide what spells you should be filling those slots with is any kind of hassle?

[Indon]

This one...

That's pretty impressive.

I was going to say, "Senior Vorpal Kickasso", the goblin who takes 1/11th of every core class every level, but with that guy I'm no longer sure Kickasso has this in the bag.

[Eldariel]

Something like Psion 5/Psionic Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Psychic Theurge 4/Beholder Mage 1/Cerebremancer 5/Mystic Theurge 2 - you have 8th level powers, 9th level divine casting, 9th level arcane casting & a huge ton of random class features (including Rebuke Undead for random feats). Needs Polymorph Any Object of course, but that's just part of the fun.

[Sinfire Titan]

You want mechanical complexity? Play an Artificer. A single-classed Artificer is one of the most difficult characters to build, as it takes time and a ton of math just to get started. Then you have to deal with level-ups and crafting.

[Gnaeus]

I have no problem working out a giant spell list ahead of time, then picking spells as appropriate from that list. I can preplan my memorized spells during downtime, and usually you are looking at your highest spell levels when you are selecting spells to cast, so rarely over a few dozen spells.

What I think is the hardest character in the game to play is Beguiler 5/Rainbow Servant (Text over table) 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5.

You are a spontaneous caster. Your spell list includes all beguiler spells, all cleric spells (+ 3 domains), and all sorc/wis Conjuration (Summoning or Creation) and Evocation spells. Trying to pick the most useful spell every round, out of hundreds of spells known, hurts my brain.

[Optimystik]

It's not a combination, but:

Binder 20. I can't figure the buggers out.

If Binder is troublesome, may I suggest dipping and going Anima Mage instead? That way you can at least be the party wizard while you try the different vestiges out. Your party members will also be less questioning of your weirdness; wizards are always odd, after all.

Oh, and 10/10 casting.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You want mechanical complexity? Play an Artificer. A single-classed Artificer is one of the most difficult characters to build, as it takes time and a ton of math just to get started. Then you have to deal with level-ups and crafting.

+1. Remember those math clases where you said "when am I ever going to use this?" Yeah, Artificer is where you use it. Unless you are a CPA, I would not recommend starting one at a level higher than 3. It's doable playing through the low levels, but maximizing your craft reserve and cash from lower levels when you're starting at 6 is...complex.

[oxinabox]

Oxinabox, you've answered the question I was setting aside while ignoring the question I actually asked. Sure, you can use various organizational aids to make tracking the spells you've prepared easier. But you don't think taking hours to decide what spells you should be filling those slots with is any kind of hassle?

I knew i was doing that but somehow couldn't make my self stop...
It's not a Hassel because, "Aha Ha ha! I haz 40 spell slots, I can afford to make mistakes, I Have all the spells I'll ever need, unless i go without sleep for 48 hours"

[sofawall]

Well, Omnicaster works, but only if you ignore the Gestalt rules.

Artificer starting at high levels is a ****ing chore. I vowed long ago to never play one starting at any level but 1 (although I may break the vow for ToS, if I get bored checking sheets).