Buying New Books - Need Advice

[Athaniar]

This Tuesday I'm going shopping for more roleplaying books to add to my already pretty sizable collection, and I need some advise, mostly in determining if certain systems I've never tried before are worth it or not.

First, about 4E Eberron. I never bought any of the earlier edition's material for Eberron, being more interested in the Forgotten Realms. But now I'm prepared to open my mind, and my question is this: do you have to have any experience of the setting from 3E to be able to understand/enjoy the 4E version, or is it practically the same but with 4E's rules? FR changed quite a bit with its Spellplague.

Second, three roleplaying systems I've been thinking about looking into are True20, Mutants and Masterminds, and Ars Magica. I'd like the Playground's opinion on any of those three.

Third, any other systems I should consider, except for the above, D&D, and Star Wars?

[RTGoodman]

Regarding 4E Eberron, I believe you should be able to play it right "out of the box," as it were, without having any 3.x material. As a bonus, most of the reviews I've read have said the 4E Eberron books are probably some of the top products for the edition produced yet.

For the others, I've never played them, but I've heard good things about them all. M&M is the one I'd personally go with, after looking it over in a store once, but that's up to you.

[Kurald Galain]

do you have to have any experience of the setting from 3E to be able to understand/enjoy the 4E version, or is it practically the same but with 4E's rules?

You neither need experience with the previous setting, nor is it the same (although the changes are less sweeping than in FR).

Second, three roleplaying systems I've been thinking about looking into are True20, Mutants and Masterminds, and Ars Magica.

I love AM and have heard good stories about M&M (assuming, of course, you like the genre to both). True20 gets a solid "meh" from me; it's not bad or anything, but if you want that kind of gameplay you have no real reason to stick with d20.

Third, any other systems I should consider, except for the above, D&D, and Star Wars?

You should definitely consider GURPS, although I personally don't like it at all. Something else that you should definitely give a shot is Vampire or Werewolf (old or new is a matter of taste). Finally, it would be treasonous not to try Paranoia.

[Totally Guy]

Third, any other systems I should consider, except for the above, D&D, and Star Wars?

I'm very much enjoying the Burning Wheel system but it's very heavy despite it's size.

[eepop]

We're having a lot of fun with Alpha Omega lately. Not sure how available it is in stores though, we've bought our stuff for it online.

[erikun]

Mutants and Masterminds is kind of like d20, except they removed all the inner workings and changed to a point-buy skills system. You buy a number of "ranks" up to your level, which are used to determine how powerful the skill/ability is.

Also, things die quick if you're using the lethal option. This includes PCs.

Those are really the only two "complaints" I have, and the first really isn't a complaint. It's a nice system, but doesn't seem to like "gritty heroic fantasy" too well.

[Aron Times]

4E Eberron is basically 3.5 Eberron with 4E rules. The timeline has not been advanced at all, though they did make a few minor retcons to fit in the new 4E races.

I say "minor" retcons because Eberron was designed with the idea that "If it exists in D&D, it exists in Eberron". The setting basically encourages you to use anything from D&D, so technically, from an in-universe perspective, dragonborn, tieflings, and eladrin were always present.

About Eberron, travel is inexpensive in Khorvaire. If you need to get somewhere fast, you can either take the Lightning Rail (basically a continent-spanning magical railroad system) or book a flight on an airship (elemental-powered, airships, not blimps).

If money is not a problem, you can also use House Orien's vast portal system (House Orien also owns the abovementioned Lightning Rail).

Long-distance communication is also cheap, with sending stones taking the place of real-life telegraph. There's also continent-wide mail service, if you need to send something to someone.

[DeathQuaker]

True20 and M&M are made by the same people and run on similar mechanics (i.e., it's based on d20, but you only use 1d20 for all rolls/mechanics; damage becomes a Difficulty that you have to make a "Toughness Save" against and there are wound conditions rather than hit points).

The difference between the two that True20 still uses a class-based leveling system (though much looser; there are only three classes IIRC) and geared toward more "classic" fantasy and modern roleplay, whereas M&M is point-buy based, and geared toward supers and pulpy stories. I have only looked at True20 and it looks decent; I have played M&M for about a year and really enjoyed it. Particularly if you do want to do a supers game (or maybe a spy/modern supernatural game), I highly recommend it.

Ars Magica I only played a little of the previous edition. I can say it is probably the best medieval-set fantasy game I've played, by which I mean it actually takes place in something resembling historic medieval Europe, but where superstitious beliefs have truth behind them and magic (Hermetic style) is real. From what I recall the system is decent and manages magic very well, but I recall it took a little while for me to get used to it. You may want to rely on a review from someone who's played it more recently than I.

[Raum]

Second, three roleplaying systems I've been thinking about looking into are True20, Mutants and Masterminds, and Ars Magica. I'd like the Playground's opinion on any of those three.

Ars Magica 4th edition is available in pdf form for free. I suggest checking it out to decide whether you like the game and want to purchase. In general, it has a very detailed and interesting setting and an excellent magic system. It defaults to a rotating style of play with only one player actively playing a mage at any one point - the others are researching. It also works on a 'season' time scale (for research) so a campaign may easily cover several game years.

True20 is interesting - it's d20 tweaked to be a bit more streamlined. It keeps many things from d20 so don't expect it to feel all that different. All it's really done is reduce the number of classes, exchange hit points for grittier toughness saves, broaden magic and spell capabilities, streamline a few mechanics, make experience GM fiat, and (the worst item IMO) swap out money for a wealth stat & roll. (I dislike the wealth roll because it's non-intuitive and more complex than simply using a monetary standard.) It still keeps most of d20's good and bad points.

I'll leave M&M to those who have more experience with it than I do.

Third, any other systems I should consider, except for the above, D&D, and Star Wars?

Not certain what you're looking for in a game, but Savage Worlds is probably the system I like best - at the moment. It simply plays fast! And, as GM, it's very easy to create NPCs. There's a free Test Drive available if you're interested in checking it out.

Unisystem is also interesting. A bit closer to d20 than Savage Worlds system-wise...it uses a d10 + skill + attribute as it's core mechanic instead of a d20. It's real difference from d20 is the lack of levels - this makes combat grittier in most cases. Witchcraft (Classic Unisystem) is available free in pdf form.

[hamishspence]

Is there a lot of difference between True20 and D20 Modern? I recall D20 modern using the Wealth system but being otherwise very similar to D&D (slightly different classes- 6 base classes, one for each stat.

[The Rose Dragon]

I will suggest my favorite three systems (actually, three out of my favorite four, since I can't really suggest my third favorite system to most people): Mutants & Masterminds, Unisystem (especially AFMBE) and Exalted 2nd Edition. Between those three, I find there is precious little I can't play.

((The third favorite is a very niche system named Qin: The Warring States. It's an excellent wuxia game, but I don't think it can do anything else very well.))

[Tyrrell]

I love Ars Magica (so be quite aware that my viewpoint is biased), and fifth edition does everything just about exactly right (except combat, which it does with a lack of enthusiasm).

The magic system as presented in the core book is by far the most interesting that I've seen in any RPG, and the core book only really gives a portion (a large portion but just a portion) of the Order of Hermes magic system (there are lots of others in the game but none so detailed. If your background is similar to mine just imagine what wizards should be like based on the stories and legends that you were exposed to before your head was filled with RPG's and video games: that's what they are in Ars Magica

The setting of the game is medieval Europe with a large splash of high fantasy and a large splash of authentic legends and folk tails. Some of the coolest things about the setting are that the science as a rule works the way that the medieval scholastic folks thought it did all of that silly elemental stuff makes a great deal more sense in Ars than it does anyplace else. There is a church of Rome in the setting but it is as much if not more the church of myth as it is the church of history. Dragons live in mountain caverns, Miracles happen for people who pray to saints, Demons tempt humanity, angels descend from heaven and your magi character (if sufficiently ornery) can kill them all (dragons, saints, angels, demons) and take their stuff.

What do the PC's do exactly?.

They travel to Crete to uncover the ancient mysteries of the Pythagoreans.

They balance their responsibilities to the duke of Savoy against their oath of fraternity.

They lay waste to the invading Mongol hordes throwing javelins of fire from their flying carpets

They capture the magic essence of the poisonous wyrm of Gloucester and use it to create a sword that passes through metal like it was butter.

They study the cocoons of magical butterflies in order to master the arts of transformation.

They form backroom political deals in order to protect themselves from the machinations of their rivals during the Wizard's tribunal.

They wager their ability to smell bread and flowers against a faerie lord in a game of chance.

They invent subtle spells to use in intrigues that last for decades

They defend their behavior against charges of Heresy in front of the cardinal of Ulm

They chase ghosts through the sewers of Barcelona while searching for the tomes of Aprimor's apprentice.

Etcetera, etcetera.


The game is great and fifth edition is well playtested and well supported.

[Tyrmatt]

I'll be curious to hear your opinions of Eberron in 4E both for it's ease of use and how the setting feels. I've got a very anti-fantasy friend who would probably kill to captain his own airship and be a steampunk sentient robot so if it works smoothly, I'm going to indoctrinate him. >:)

I heartily recommend GURPS, just for the sheer variety you'll encounter from it. Even with the two basic books (Characters and Campaigns), my ideas are growing into a full-blown Fallout based GURPS module, since there hasn't been an update to the previous 3E 50s Style Apocalypse book. In essence, I'm bringing Van Buren to life as best I can. While I'm "Overseeing" my Fallout campaign, I'm searching for a group to play in the GURPS official Infinite Worlds setting, which sounds far too much fun to be legal.