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2009-08-15, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Chips!
I just finished up a d20 modern campaign. Despite the psychics ability to do save or die (or rather, save or start killing your friends for me) the damage types did their fare share of the killing.
The difference is that in d20 modern you get hero points, which we kept track of with poker chips. These can be used to add the best of a certain number of d6's to a roll (1 d6 at first level, the best of multiple d6's at higher levels) If there's a save or suck caster around, the big bads at least save their action points for the spells, meaning they have a much lower chance of being taken out in one shot. The same with the players.
I wonder if adding them to regular 3.5 would help the quadratic wizards linear warriors problem. That and a mechanism for fighting types to move and attack might bring something almost balanced to the game.
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2009-08-15, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
I prefer extending the casting times. Finger of Death becomes something similar to Channeled Life Theft, but the full 2 round casting time gives you a full-fledged Finger of Death spell. Gives the enemy time to prepare against it while still letting the Caster do something if the enemy actually is immune.
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2009-08-15, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Location
- England
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Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
I implemented this idea in my game yesterday, in advance of running Ravenloft. :3
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2009-08-15, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Sounds like plain-old action points to me.
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2009-08-15, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Location
- England
- Gender
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2009-08-15, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Gender
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Which.... don't solve the problem. And SoD isn't the problem.
It's partial saves, or no-save-just-suck, or orbs, or large-scale BC spells.Last edited by Doc Roc; 2009-08-15 at 02:21 PM.
Lagren: I took Livers Need Not Apply, only reflavoured.
DocRoc: to?
Lagren: So whenever Harry wisecracks, he regains HP.
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2009-08-15, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
I prefer to just keep a big, menacing staff by my seat at all times. Balances casters like you wouldn't believe.
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
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2009-08-15, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-08-15, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
I put forward Necropolitan with Dust of Choking and Sneezing. Enemy is stunned for 5d4 rounds, no save.
Just as deadly as a mid level caster, for less than 3k!
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2009-08-15, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
- Gender
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Yes.... it's the no save or suck.
Reverse Gravity: Let me explain with a rhyme: If you don't fly, you just die!Nope, I was wrong.
Solid Fog: Saves are overrated.
Black Tentacles: End the encounter. Now!
Enervation: Well..... not quite no save but still close.
SoD's really aren't that great.
With relation to Planar Binding and Polymorph, I'm a heavy optimizer..... but I'd NEVER cast one of these spells. They break the game that much.Last edited by aje8; 2009-08-15 at 07:36 PM.
Fire Emblem Optimizer and Game Balancer (apparently) in the Playground
A note on using my Fire Emblem rules:
Spoiler
I'm mostly retired from Fire Emblem PbPs, and indeed the PbPs in general at present. So if you wish to use my character creation rules, I would appreciate a PM, but feel free to start the game before I respond, as it might be a while.
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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2009-08-15, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
A lot of characters are going to be underwhelmed by this spell. CON-boosted tanks will take the 20d6 and just keep on ticking. Catch a Monk near a wall and they'll scoff in your general direction. Anyone with a Ring of Featherfall will just start peppering you with arrows from their new, elevated vantage point, since you just took them out of range of melee retaliation -- nerfing any chargers on your side. Savvy characters with armor will probably have anti-impact, because that's a flat +2,000 gp to halve damage from falling -- after they take 2d6 off from easy Tumble and Climb checks; so that's only 9d6 total.
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2009-08-15, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
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2009-08-15, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
- Gender
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
A lot of characters are going to be underwhelmed by this spell. CON-boosted tanks will take the 20d6 and just keep on ticking. Catch a Monk near a wall and they'll scoff in your general direction. Anyone with a Ring of Featherfall will just start peppering you with arrows from their new, elevated vantage point, since you just took them out of range of melee retaliation -- nerfing any chargers on your side. Savvy characters with armor will probably have anti-impact, because that's a flat +2,000 gp to halve damage from falling -- after they take 2d6 off from easy Tumble and Climb checks; so that's only 9d6 total.
Actually wait..... *looks up spell.* That doesn't do quite what I remember it doing. It's not a (no)SoD, it's just a no save you're out of the combat for a long time (13 round minimum). Never mind, point retracted. Still excelllent but not quite what I said in the previous post. I remebered it killing them if they floated way up without hitting anything...... *facepalm.*
Oh and in response to the monk thing...... not affecting monks is like not affecting blades of grass of to a 13th level caster..... nobody cares. They'll be dead by then.Last edited by aje8; 2009-08-15 at 07:36 PM.
Fire Emblem Optimizer and Game Balancer (apparently) in the Playground
A note on using my Fire Emblem rules:
Spoiler
I'm mostly retired from Fire Emblem PbPs, and indeed the PbPs in general at present. So if you wish to use my character creation rules, I would appreciate a PM, but feel free to start the game before I respond, as it might be a while.
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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2009-08-15, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
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2009-08-15, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
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2009-08-15, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Gender
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Uh, ranged attacks? Sure, it'll do fine against characters only equipped for melee -- but a few dozen arrows can ruin your whole day.
However, see: Tarrasque..... against any melee brute, it's insane..... lasts 13 rounds, effects muliplte opponents and ignores SR, Magic Immunity, has no save and all that.
This will win a significant portion of encounters, no save. The rest, it will just kinda be useless. It also gets worse as levels go higher, but even then. Do you realize how many creatures in the MM can fly? This is still insta-rape against a good portion.Fire Emblem Optimizer and Game Balancer (apparently) in the Playground
A note on using my Fire Emblem rules:
Spoiler
I'm mostly retired from Fire Emblem PbPs, and indeed the PbPs in general at present. So if you wish to use my character creation rules, I would appreciate a PM, but feel free to start the game before I respond, as it might be a while.
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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2009-08-15, 07:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
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2009-08-15, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Gender
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Yeah, that's why I always make higher-level enemies have most of their power from character levels. Keeps things interesting.
Yes, making the enemies have character levels does even the odds quite a bit. Though you can still reverse gravity their melee brute. Especially as have you seen most fighters with a bow? Unless they're a specalized ranged build, their probably not doing much even if they have a composite longbow as a back-up weapon.
Anyway, I think it's time we stopped derailing the thead with talk of the reverse gravity spell.Last edited by aje8; 2009-08-15 at 08:16 PM.
Fire Emblem Optimizer and Game Balancer (apparently) in the Playground
A note on using my Fire Emblem rules:
Spoiler
I'm mostly retired from Fire Emblem PbPs, and indeed the PbPs in general at present. So if you wish to use my character creation rules, I would appreciate a PM, but feel free to start the game before I respond, as it might be a while.
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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2009-08-15, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
If a tree falls in the forest, and no one's around to hear it, my illegal logging business succeeds.
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2009-08-15, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Sunnydale
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2009-08-15, 11:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
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2009-08-16, 12:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Gender
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Look, I'm sorry but why would you need two spell slots? If the enemy is optimized for ranged damage, then you use a different spell.
On your average BSF though, that 1d6+8 damage from his composite longbow back-up weapon isn't much of a threat. Espically if you're invisable or have illusions of yourself running around.Fire Emblem Optimizer and Game Balancer (apparently) in the Playground
A note on using my Fire Emblem rules:
Spoiler
I'm mostly retired from Fire Emblem PbPs, and indeed the PbPs in general at present. So if you wish to use my character creation rules, I would appreciate a PM, but feel free to start the game before I respond, as it might be a while.
Originally Posted by Kallisti
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2009-08-16, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: An easy way to balance save or suck casters
Wind Wall scoffs unless he is using actual siege weaponry.
Remember, 40 ft. long Greatswords still only threaten 5 ft. when used by Medium creatures. D&D is silly. Houserule if you want, but no matter how big the bolt, Wind Wall smacks it aside unless it's siege weaponry.