Monk with use magic device [3.5]

[Enguhl]

So my friend is making his first non-oneshot campaign and I decided to be nice and play a support character. Unfortunately my group has an uncany ability to get into the most dire of (usually combat) situations, so I want to have some combat ability.

My concept: Play a monk, wester stylized though still using the PHB stats saying I trained in self defense so I could travel the world spreading happy faces (and gathering knowledge, scrolls, spreading the word of my diety? I don't know yet, but I'll get to it) and not get roughed up.
My plan is to sit in the back with various scrolls and wands, buffing and healing where needed, and occasionally punching baddies if I absolutely need to. Unfortunately monks don't get UMD making this a difficult character to make effective.

So does anyone know of a feat or alternative class ability/level I could use to get UMD as a class skill?

Thanks in advance.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah - the Feat Rogue.

Not joking at all, this character concept would be far better served with a Rogue using the variant that trades Sneak Attack for Fighter bonus feats, then taking Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike. UMD is a class skill now, and your punch-them-in-the-face damage is almost as good as a 'real' monk would be. Plus, lots of other goodies.

If you want a 'Western Monk', though, consider Cloistered Cleric. It's pretty much the iconic monastery-monk, you'll be able to buff and heal without spending money to do it, and if you take the Magic domain, you can use wands/scrolls just fine. This is by far the best option for you, I think.

But if you're deadset on being a Monk, With Kung Fu Action!, I think Unearthed Arcana created a 'Skill Training' feat that makes a skill in-class.

[Flickerdart]

{Scrubbed}

What you're describing is a Cleric. Play that. Or perhaps a Favored Soul (are there deities with Unarmed Strike as a favoured weapon?). Bard is a good buffer, Rogue and Beguiler are good at UMD. Warlock and Artificer are excellent at UMD. Monks are not a good class, and especially not for what you want them to do.

[FMArthur]

You could also take Able Learner, the human/changeling/doppelganger feat that makes cross-class skills only take one skill point to advance, then dip any class with UMD as a class skill, and now you can put ranks into it as if it was in-class for anything you take levels in. Dipping factotum for this gets you every skill .

[T.G. Oskar]

Or you can allow the Monk to replace all of its bonus feats (I kid you not, ALL of its bonus feats) and be sworn to service towards Wee Jas. It's Dragon magazine content, so your mileage may vary, but...

Mostly, you remove the liberty of the Monk's bonus feat choices (and deity, as well), and you gain at first a +2 bonus to UMD, then Improved Initiative, then Skill Focus (Use Magic Device), then Blind-Fight (neither the first nor the third feat make sense), and the end result if you have the right ranks is to add half your Monk bonus to UMD checks.

Crystal Keep has a better explanation of that, or if you're incredibly lucky, it's on issue 346 of Dragon Magazine.

Also, too late Flick. Giacomo has like a seventh sense towards these threads. Or rather, a rarely successful use of a wand of "Detect Monk Threads".

[BobVosh]

If you are dead set on this kind of character...might as well use the guide that one man tries to defend vs the whole forums on this exact kind of character.

However I agree: go rogue. If you can use a dungeonscape book I would vote on factotum. Very good support as you are the perfect pinch hitter.

[Doc Roc]

If you are allowed it, Apprentice Spell caster has some RP requirements, but will get you UMD as a class skill until fifth level.

I had a long post here, but it's gone now. Here is the summary:

Please take a look into Tome Of Battle at Unarmed Swordsage, a recommended adaptation for the excellent Swordsage base class. If you need help, I will be happy to help you over the messaging service of your choice. I will be awake and available for at least another hour.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Hahahahahaha....

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh harder.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[ericgrau]

Multiclass. 1 level in any class with UMD lets you max out UMD as if you put all your levels in that class. The only difference is that when you take a level of monk you must spend 2 ranks per skill point. But the max number of ranks is the same as a pure rogue.

The one problem I see is that in-combat buffs and healing tend to be weak. They're best done out of combat. Unless you don't mean +X buffs. Things like invisibility can be handy even in combat. Plus you need to fail by 10 or more to really screw up UMD; otherwise you just keep retrying. Again, that works best wehn you have time to blow outside of combat. The one thing I might use in combat is enlarge person on yourself since it boosts a lot of the special attacks that you get monk feats for. Mobility stuff like spider climb, jump, and so forth can also help a monk sometimes.

If you don't want to get roughed up so much, you could also try things like tripping, disarming, and tumbling to enemies that suck at melee. Grappling can also work as long as the target doesn't have nearby friends. Otherwise your damage is good and his sucks.

[Kylarra]

I'm going to second just playing a Cloistered Cleric.

[Doc Roc]

Multiclassing for UMD is bad advice. This build will have enough trouble as it stands. There's a bloody feat that you can take to get UMD as a class skill. It stops being bought as a class skill at 5th, but the cap for it still advances as though it were a class skill.

For this, monk is literally probably your worst option. Heavily dependent on multiple attributes, none of which happen to be Intelligence, struggling to maintain core skills, and forced to burn your precious gold on items to buff your UMD check.

[Enguhl]

To start, sorry for not being able to respond to people by name, im on my phone at work and its a hassle to close th text box, scroll down, scrol up, and enter a name.

Now onto replies.
Yes I am set on playing a monk, flurry will be useful since im only attacking when enemies get close, plus a friend told me I should "play a monk like an actual monk, but crazy kung fu secret power ftw" so im keeping the class.
Feat rogue: no dice, the monk abilities will help keep me alive so I can focus on buffing up the party members. also see above.
Skill training feat (or whichever it was): awesome, just what im looking for.
Unarmed Swordsage: myself (and my group) not liking ToB aside, im not aiming for a combat character, the keeping monk combat stuff is a just-in-case backup.
Weak build: never really had a problem with this. I can make stuff work out fine, famout for my frontline melee kobolds and other such stuff, and this character is actually looking pretty solid and well rounded so far.
Wasting money: not a problem, don't really look forward to that much gear ill be wanting. no weapons except maybe a sling, no armor or shields, and most wondrous items ill either use or sell for scrolls\wants.

General: for people frowning upon my choice of monk (power wise), my group's play style destroys the general power teirs classes get. best combat characters are almost constantly the basic stuff from te PHB, fighter, ranger, monk even. blaster wizards are more helpful than the crazy combo wizards because we can't sit around and wait for spells the be replenished becayse one combat uses them all up just for an instant win.

I think that addressed almost everyone, ill go back and edit when I get off work

[Frosty]

Just...Cleric. they are good buffers. they can also fight.

[Curmudgeon]

You want to play a Monklike character: an unarmored guy who fights without weapons in melee. There are a bunch of ways to do that. If you're taking the advice to go Rogue (and it's good advice), then be aware that a Rogue uses items -- lots of items. A Rogue can be a capable unarmed combatant with the right gear, with most of the damage coming from sneak attack. Definitely don't give up sneak attack for feats. Yes, feats are precious, but gold pieces are all around, waiting to make your acquaintance, and you can buy feats. On a limited budget you start with Bracers of Striking, which grant Improved Unarmed Strike for only 1,310 gp. (With more funds you'd instead use a Fanged Ring, because it also grants Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike).) Next add a Monk's Belt to get both an AC boost (since you won't want to wear actual armor with its ACP and max DEX issues) and better unarmed damage. When you can afford it, a wand of Greater Invisibility will let you deal out unarmed strikes with significant sneak attack damage.

Monks and Rogues are both proficient with crossbows. You should carry one (a light crossbow with the quick loading enhancement instead of the Rapid Reload feat) to use at the start of encounters. One shot in the surprise round, and a full round against enemies who haven't moved yet, should give you ample opportunity to deal out sneak attack damage before you pull out your wands for Use Magic Device time. By attacking first you'll attract enemy attention away from those party members you want to protect.

When you close for unarmed combat you'll want to get into flanking positions. Since you said you wanted to spread the word of your deity, a dip into Cloistered Cleric will get you three domains. You can pick Travel and swap it for the Travel Devotion feat, which lets you move your speed as a swift action each round for 10 consecutive rounds. That'll let you close into flanking position and make a full attack, with sneak attack damage on each hit. You could also pick the Celerity domain for +10' to your base speed, and the Quick trait for another +10' if you want to emulate some of the Monk's speed.

[ghost_warlock]

If you're dead set on monk, make this your first class level and take UMD as your Adaptive Learning skill. Done. Other two levels are optional; the bonus feat would be nice for flexibility and the ability boost can't hurt a MAD class like monk.

[Doc Roc]

Here's my honest to goodness recommendation...

There's a feat called tashalatoran in Secrets of sarlona. It lets you stack levels of a single psionic class with monk for purposes of flurry of blows and unarmed damage, if I remember correctly. The build is:

Monk 2/Psychic warrior 1, take Tashalatoran, continue in psychic warrior. You get every single thing a monk gets that is good, and a huge stack of free bonus goodies. More support, more damage, more control, in a single elegant package. If you allow flaws, you can even still take apprentice spellcaster.




Final note: My optimization chops are.... pretty strong. I really think that maybe you should read up a little bit on what "caraazzzzzzy combo wizards" actually do, and how they actually work, before assuming you grok them. Likewise with the power tier system.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

UMD Monk Build:

Expert level 5

Feats:
Skill Focus: Craft Manuscript
Skill Focus: K. Religion
Skill Focus: UMD

Skills:

Craft: Manuscript
Decipher Script
K. Arcana
K. History
K. Religion
K. The Planes
UMD

[sofawall]

No. No no no. Oh gods stop right now before Giacomo sees this thread.

Hahahahahaha....

Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh harder.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Both are what I immediately thought. I actually checked the thread starter to make sure it wasn't Giacomo.

blaster wizards are more helpful than the crazy combo wizards because we can't sit around and wait for spells the be replenished becayse one combat uses them all up just for an instant win.

Wait, what? Wizards can use anywhere from one to three spells in a combat, and still utterly destroy and chance the enemy has of winning. A blaster wizard, without using "crazy combo"s will almost certainly use up better/more spell slots than a GOD wizard.

[Kurald Galain]

My plan is to sit in the back with various scrolls and wands, buffing and healing where needed, and occasionally punching baddies if I absolutely need to.

Yeah, that's not very monkish. Here's a fun fact: did you know that the monk class is the single worst PHB class for the UMD skill? Yup, that's right. That's because every other class (and most not in the PHB) either have (1) UMD as a class skill, (2) more charisma synergy, and/or (3) actual spellcasting so that you need UMD less.

If you want to sit in the back with various scrolls and wands, play a bard. Heck, play a rogue - it'll make you all that much better at punching people when you need to. Play an artificer if your DM lets you.

[sofawall]

Fighter fulfills none of that, but is less MAD anyway.

He can even take the feat for +2 if he really wants to. He has enough Fighter feats to not care.

EDIT: Isn't there a feat that gives a you a skill as a class skill? Also, skill focus, because the fighter has feats to spare.

Also, Barbarian is also really bad, but again, suffers from far less MAD.

EDIT2: I'd say three worst are Monk, Barbarian and Fighter, in that order.

Yes, Monk is the worst.

[Enguhl]

Sofawall: I said with my groups play style, that's the way it goes.

Kurald Galain: Add combat between "My" and "plan".

Pharaoh's Fist: Still trying to keep the crazy kung fu skills.

Ghost_warlock: I'll just take a feat that lets me take the skill as a class skill. One less feat for monk abilities at level, I'll take that.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Are you deadset on the Monk class, rather than the martial artist character concept?

[kpenguin]

Well, if you're willing to go against the consensus of nearly the entire RP Games board...

[Pharaoh's Fist]

If you are dead set on this kind of character...might as well use the guide that one man tries to defend vs the whole forums on this exact kind of character.

Already linked to.

[kpenguin]

It deserves double linkage, for Giacomo's sake.

If a man walks in ordering exactly what is on the shelf, even if said product is horribly defective, we should always direct him down that aisle.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

And pick his pockets. And steal his car. And delete the contact list on his cellphone. And seduce his girlfriend.

For double fun, you should consider linking to the reposted guide on Gleemax after it comes back online.

Treantmonk's comments are hilarious.

[warmachine]

Your group's play style needs explanation because if they get into dire combat situations, you need a character that can go 'nova', meaning burning high powers in a short time. This means spellcaster. Also, healing others whilst using a move action to move to the person in trouble, not taking out a scroll. This means a spellcaster, particularly Cleric. Applying buffs as soon as possible, such as Freedom of Movement to the Fighter who is being mauled by a hideous grapple monster. Similarly, this means spellcaster. Wading into melee because the front line is overloaded. Monk and Cleric can do that.

I'm a Tactician roleplayer and I favour the Cleric class precisely because it's good at "sit in the back with various scrolls and wands, buffing and healing where needed, and occasionally punching [or rather whacking] baddies if I absolutely need to." Plus, you can support with tricks like Silence to force enemy spellcasters to move out of position.

Worse, YOUR play style needs explanation. "Sit in the back" means you rarely show your "crazy kung fu secret power ftw". Various expansion books have all sorts of crazy kung fu powers ftw, such as running on the walls, but what's the point of making them your signature shticks if you don't run around and use them? "Crazy kung fu secret power ftw" and "wester[n] stylized"? Is this not a style contradiction? You can either be a sensible buffer or a crazy powergamer ftw. Combining these can't work.

[Freelance Henchman]

Please play a Giaco-Monk as described in the guide and report back here how it went.

[Kurald Galain]

Please play a Giaco-Monk as described in the guide and report back here how it went.

For what it's worth, the one currently being played in the Test of Spite has died in the first combat encounter, then died again in the second, and has had four or five instances of his wands shorting out (because rolling an 1 for UMD is not good).

[kamikasei]

Never mind the combat strength, or lack thereof, of monks - it seems obvious to me that if your character is supposed to be someone who buffs his allies with magic and can defend himself in unarmed combat in a pinch, then it's the buffing with magic that should be the core of the build and the unarmed combat side of things dealt with via items and feats.

The way you're going about this is akin to saying "I want a guy who fights in heavy armor with a big sword, but has a couple of self-buffing spells" - and building him as a wizard with a single level of fighter.