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Thread: Energy Bow question
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2009-08-19, 07:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Energy Bow question
From http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a
Hank’s energy bow acts as a +2 composite longbow that accommodates a user of any Strength. Although unstrung, it fires arrows of pure magical force that deal 2d6 points of damage.
2. If I'm making a buffed energy bow (full +10 equivalent), does the energy bow's inherent +2 enhancement come out of my +10?
Bit new to d20, but hopefully these questions aren't too inane.
Thanks!
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2009-08-19, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
"And if you don't, the consequences will be dire!"
"What? They'll have three extra hit dice and a rend attack?"
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2009-08-19, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Hank's Energy Bow deals 2d6 + 2 + Str damage per shot, plus any damage from the Power Shot (which reduces your To-Hit). This damage is a Force effect, which means ethereal/incorporeal enemies don't get a miss chance.
It's a great magic item for low-mid level characters. But at mid-high levels, it's actually quite weak. Archer builds can drastically improve their damage by using a potent magic bow AND potent magical arrows. If you fire a +1 Flaming Shocking Arrow from a +1 Biting Frost bow, you fire +1 Flaming Shocking Biting Frost attacks (you also presumably get a friend to cast Greater Magic Weapon on your bow to increase it's enhancement bonus). You can also tailor your ammo choice for the specific enemy you are shooting at (Holy, Bane, Exploding, etc).
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2009-08-19, 10:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Yeah, but also:
Originally Posted by Ask WizardsThe Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922
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2009-08-19, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
The key addition it needs is Splitting. After that, everything else is gravy. But yeah, it should be doable a bit later. It's worth noting that it's the only thing in 3.5 rules set, and one of the two things (Peerless Archer being the other) in the whole 3.X rules set that allows Power Shots. Power Shots are really nice since buffing your To Hit with a bow is much easier than buffing your damage.
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2009-08-19, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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2009-08-19, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
If you consider the fact that a mounted ranger archer in 4e can basically own almost anyone in the Monster Manual as long as there's room to kite, it might shed some light on why WotC has traditionally avoided buffing archery.
Also, there's a historical facet to it - archers traditionally aren't devastating because of one archer, they're devastating because there's a big group of well-trained archers firing as many arrows as they can as an AoE attack. For a game that emphasizes single characters with multiple levels in badass each, that's not a particularly useful archetype.
If you want archers to be awesome, there are certainly ways to do it (most of them involve making your character as much like an Arrow Demon as possible, plus stacking ridiculous amounts of bonus damage on each attack). But in terms of designer intent, the support just generally wasn't there.
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2009-08-19, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
'room to kite' is surprisingly conditional and controllable, particularly if your game system includes hamstring effects and methods of controlling Line of Sight. I have trouble buying balance as any sort of sensible concern there when you consider... well... casting.
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2009-08-19, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
In 4e, archery is a lot more snipery than 3.X since the majority of attack powers cap range at 10 squares (a few up to 20), whereas with a greatbow, you can fire up to 25/50, so even if someone with a fairly high speed (8) is running (+2) and taking double move (10*2=20), they'll still take 2 turns to get within range, and running will negate the -2 penalty for shooting long range (26-50 sq).
That's assuming some sort of terrain that doesn't block LoS, but it's one of the fun things we showed our DM a few sessions ago, about how long our ranger's range really is.Last edited by Kylarra; 2009-08-19 at 11:49 AM.
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2009-08-19, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
It doesn't matter if the game includes a hamstring or slowing effect if you literally never get into range to hit the archer with it.
Also, 3.x never had any comprehensive (or even cursory) playtesting of caster power vs. everyone else's power. Comparing casters to each other (which is why druids got a huge buff in 3.5) and beatsticks to each other (which is why all the good fighter and barbarian PrCs got nerfed in 3.5) was the name of the game. In that environment, archer PrCs got nerfed because they could snipe and kite all the melee classes easily.
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2009-08-19, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-08-19, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Originally Posted by d20 SRD
The best part? If the horse is doing the movement, the archer can full attack every single round. Occasionally taking a whole -2 penalty on attacks in exchange for not being attacked evar.
EDIT: Actually, using a normal horse sucks because it gets scared and you waste actions to control it. Use a light warhorse. It has a move of 60, which means you move twice as fast as anyone except barbarians (a little scary, sure, but a double move is still as far as a full-blown run) and monks (lulz).Last edited by imperialspectre; 2009-08-19 at 01:05 PM.
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2009-08-19, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-08-19, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
This is some great discussion, but I wanted to clarify my second question:
2. If I'm making a buffed energy bow (full +10 equivalent), does the energy bow's inherent +2 enhancement come out of my +10?
As you can see, I'm a bit confused by it.
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2009-08-19, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Vollmond,
You can add up to an additional +8 before the item becomes epic. Note, however, the the property that makes it an energy bow may count as a +1 or +2 in and of itself, thus limiting the +8 to something lower. Or, perhaps it simply has an added cost. In either case, once you get above +10 or above 200,000 gp cost (whichever comes first), the item becomes epic and costs are multiplied by 10.
Either way, only a maximum of +5 can go to enhancement bonuses and a maximum of +5 to special abilities (holy, flaming, etc.). If a +6, or a total of +6, is given to either, it also becomes epic. Your DMG has more rules, you can also find it online under the open gaming license.
braingamer47
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2009-08-19, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Hmm, I hadn't realized the +5 limit applied to abilities as well. Thanks!
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2009-08-19, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-08-19, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
You're not the only one.
As far as I can tell, the Energy Bow doesn't follow the normal rules for crafting a weapon. We can figure that out by its cost. A masterwork composite longbow, the vital first part, is 400gp, plus 100gp per point of Str bonus. A +2 weapon is only 8000gp, so basically a +2 composite longbow is 8400gp, plus the Str enhancement.
The two problems we have are that we don't know how much the special abilities cost. The first, that in works with a user of any Str, isn't found anywhere; nor is the 2d6 force damage instead of the normal base damage; nor is the "sheds light like a torch part;" nor is the Power Shot part.
Now since the energy bow has a set cost (22600gp), we can assume that they take up at least 14,200gp. That's only enough to pay for another +1-equivalent enhancement, meaning that the other three together are equal to 4200gp. Maybe it's 2000gp each for the unlimited Str bonus and the Power Shot, and +200gp for the glowing? We don't know.
The best bet is to work it out individually with your DM if you want an improved energy bow.The Playgrounder Formerly Known as rtg0922
Homebrew:
• "Themes of Ansalon" - A 4E Dragonlance Supplement
• Homebrew Compendium
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2009-08-19, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
Weapons come in two basic categories: melee and ranged. Some of the weapons listed as melee weapons can also be used as ranged weapons. In this case, their enhancement bonus applies to either type of attack.
In addition to an enhancement bonus, weapons may have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.
Light Generation
Fully 30% of magic weapons shed light equivalent to a light spell (bright light in a 20-foot radius, shadowy light in a 40-foot radius). These glowing weapons are quite obviously magical. Such a weapon can’t be concealed when drawn, nor can its light be shut off. Some of the specific weapons detailed below always or never glow, as defined in their descriptions.
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2009-08-19, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-08-19, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-08-19, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Last edited by braingamer47; 2009-08-19 at 02:20 PM.
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2009-08-19, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
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2009-08-19, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-08-19, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
RE: Power Attack for bows
In 3.5 it's easy for an archer to deal solid damage by using a magic bow, magic ammo, magical buffs, and maybe precision damage if they're willing to get within 30 feet of their enemy. They can't get to the same damage level as Leap Attack + Pounce + Shock Trooper + Headlong Rush + Battle Jump + Valorous Weapon + Rhino Rush, but most DMs don't allow that level of ridiculous anyway.
Archers have a huge benefit over melee builds, in that they don't need to stand anywhere near their enemy. With Flyby Attack or Shot on the Run and Greater Manyshot, they can swoop within 30 ft, rain death, and then move away. Or if you're not using precision damage, you can stand 100+ ft away with little or no penalty. In most cases your enemies will have few chances to seriously harm you, especially if you're teamed with at least one melee build and/or a battlefield control build. So in my opinion, they shouldn't deal as much damage as melee types, who actually have to risk getting hurt.
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2009-08-19, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
That's my guess of the nerfage- they saw it as "at-will fireball".
Also, there's a historical facet to it - archers traditionally aren't devastating because of one archer, they're devastating because there's a big group of well-trained archers firing as many arrows as they can as an AoE attack. For a game that emphasizes single characters with multiple levels in badass each, that's not a particularly useful archetype.
You can aim smaller, though.Last edited by Myrmex; 2009-08-19 at 07:23 PM.
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2009-08-19, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Energy Bow question
Thus the difference between "you hit" and "BOOOM!!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!!"