Magical plumbing

[Ormur]

I took the landlord feat in a campaign I'm playing in and I have a little keep that I keep adding to as I level up. Although I haven't used it much in the campaign it's lots of fun drawing the floor plans and buying components. I'm up to level 12 now so I have 100.000 gp and I have yet to spend about 15.000 gp.

So I thought what could make it more comfortable for my mildly hedonistic wizard? Plumbing of course.
I was thinking about making a wondrous architecture ever pumping pump. It's just a regular water pump with a magic item that either pumps water continually or when needed up to a tank on top of the keep. I was wondering if mage hand (5 pounds of force) would be enough to operate a pump that pumps water 20-30 feet up or if I needed more power? I wish I remembered more from secondary school physics.

I was also thinking about heating a part of it. I could just let my valet bring in firewood to heat a simple boiler when I'm home but if there is some cheap magical fire that burns continuously (with heat) or at will that would be even better. I could even ad a purify (food and) drink magic item to the plumbing to keep it clean.

Since those are all low level spells it should be a lot cheaper than decanter of endless water but that depends on the power needed for the pump. Simple plumbing shouldn't be beyond medieval engineers if you've got magic to provide the pressure.

[Mando Knight]

I was thinking about making a wondrous architecture ever pumping pump. It's just a regular water pump with a magic item that either pumps water continually or when needed up to a tank on top of the keep. I was wondering if mage hand (5 pounds of force) would be enough to operate a pump that pumps water 20-30 feet up or if I needed more power? I wish I remembered more from secondary school physics.

A continuous 5-pound force would be able to lift up only about 5 pounds of water, a little more than half (roughly 5/8ths) of a gallon at a time. You're going to need more power.

[Kylarra]

Decanter of Endless water + Prestidigitation trap.

[Pika...]

Aww. When I read the thread title I was thinking:

Spoiler

Show

[Johel]

Tall wooden tower : 2.000 gp ?
Decanter of Endless Water : 9.000 gp
Hollow pipes in whatever metal you got : ????

Put the decanter of endless water at the top of the tower, have the pipes run from there and through the house. Here you go !! You just need to install "robinets" to lock the pipes and divert the flow of water out of the system when you need it. When you don't, water will just flow down the pipes, out of the house, down to the next river.

Depending of the plumbing system's size, you can set the Decanter on any of the three mode.

EDIT : Ninja by Kylarra

[Mike_G]

A continuous 5-pound force would be able to lift up only about 5 pounds of water, a little more than half (roughly 5/8ths) of a gallon at a time. You're going to need more power.

To lift it directly, that's correct, but it you use gears to multiply that 5 pound force, you could move a lot more.

If it's permanent, the mage hand could just turn a crank 24 hours to slowly fill a holding tank, and that could supply the pressure to the actual plumbing, assuming the tenants use water mostly during the day, for cooking and washing, a large reserve tank filled at night would work fine.

[Starshade]

A Mage Hand waterpump also got a basic range of 15 feet, so you'd need several of them to get water up that far. What about a Levitate pump? 100 pounds of water moving 20 feet every 5 second

[Johel]

Again, why would you want to move water up when it's a lot easier to just build a tall tower, have a decanter at the top and let water flow down.

[Ormur]

To lift it directly, that's correct, but it you use gears to multiply that 5 pound force, you could move a lot more.

If it's permanent, the mage hand could just turn a crank 24 hours to slowly fill a holding tank, and that could supply the pressure to the actual plumbing, assuming the tenants use water mostly during the day, for cooking and washing, a large reserve tank filled at night would work fine.

Thanks, that was what I was looking for. Decanter of endless water + pipes is fine but when you can do the same for 1/10th the price, it's even better. Now I can put the bathroom on the on the second floor.

But regarding the second part of the plumbing issue having one tank for cold water and a boiler for hot water shouldn't be a problem, should it?

[ericgrau]

Simple plumbing is not beyond ancient engineers, even without a pump. All you need is a 100-150 foot tall water tower and you have pressure. Often all you have to do to get the water 100 feet higher than you is to simply put the "tower" far enough up stream, and make it a big tub on the ground instead of a tower. Ground level at this point is still 100-150 feet above the city. You can also raise the water level with a dam if need be.

Hot water for baths was typically done by boiling it in a kettle then adding it to the bath water until the mix gets hot enough. Hot water for tea & food is of course done the same way and hot water for anything else isn't really necessary.

Sewer systems are all gravity driven even today, so that's even easier. Simply dump waste into the nearest body of water downstream. That'll dilute it and the plants absorb waste too. Then the next city downstream can re-use it. Works fine for low populations without any sewage treatment at all.

In fact, it is likely that big D&D cities already have mundane plumbing for anyone wealthy enough to tap into. No magic required. Poorer people & regions might draw water from wells, however. Farmland relies on rain or better areas might trench offshoots from rivers to irrigate. But even today rain-only is an option in some areas. It's inferior but free & easy.

[Johel]

Prestidigitation is there for the warming part.
It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material per casting.
A trap of Prestidigitation, with auto reset, might do the trick.

[Mike_G]

Thanks, that was what I was looking for. Decanter of endless water + pipes is fine but when you can do the same for 1/10th the price, it's even better. Now I can put the bathroom on the on the second floor.

But regarding the second part of the plumbing issue having one tank for cold water and a boiler for hot water shouldn't be a problem, should it?

No, but you'd need two sets of pipes to the faucets, one for hot and one for cold. The same pump could supply the tank, and then you could heat the water as it flows into the hot water pipes.

[Ormur]

I know the Romans of course had pretty advanced plumbing with aqueducts from mountain streams providing enough pressure and sewers. Since medieval Europe is often used as the basis for the D&D world however they might not be present there but still possible. Medieval nobles just didn't care enough for civilized comforts.

My keep is on flat land a few tens of miles away from the next city so access to aqueducts and big gradients is unlikely to be allowed by my DM, hence the mage hand plumbing.

Yeah prestidigitation might do the trick, I was afraid I'd need to use a first level spell like burning hands. Two sets of pipes shouldn't be a problem with one set running through a prestidigitation wondrous architecture or resetting trap. With the SBG rules halving the price of unmovable wondrous items and 0 level spells this will only cost 250 GP each plus the pipes and pump. 500gp x caster level 1 x level spell 0.5.

[ericgrau]

And the Greeks. And the Aztecs IIRC. It's really not that hard. Your reasons are why I noted that poor areas would rely on drawing up buckets of well water. But a lot of D&D areas are quite civilized so I'd suspect Roman style plumbing. And those cities have mid level NPCs with magic for that matter; but such is not necessary for plumbing. I just mean anyone who cares enough & is rich enough to have mundane plumbing could have it without much trouble.

Heck, it wouldn't even take a dwarven engineer to set it up, though the dwarves may have especially good setups. Pipe mains tend to essentially be passageways carved in stone and or similarly constructed. And sealed with tar or bitumen in the case of masonry. Bitumen is a spell component, btw, so it exists. Open aqueducts work too. But I mean either way it's no more complicated than the sewers which adventurers are already quite familiar with. Smaller pipes would likely be lead.

[Ormur]

That's another problem with medieval plumbing. What should I use for pipes? Lead was used by the Romans but do I have to worry about lead poisoning for my character . Would simple small clay pipes work or should I just splurge for copper pipes.

[Mike_G]

That's another problem with medieval plumbing. What should I use for pipes? Lead was used by the Romans but do I have to worry about lead poisoning for my character . Would simple small clay pipes work or should I just splurge for copper pipes.

Lead pipes were used until very recently, not just by the Romans. Lead will leach into the water from the pipes, so, yeah, it poses a health risk with long exposure.

Clay pipes work just fine, but are harder to work with. Copper is better, easy to bend and shape but more expensive. Cast iron work fine and is cheap, but rusts.

BTW, between the Marines and being a Paramedic, I worked at a municipal water department.

[Ormur]

Thanks, now I just have to clear this with my DM.