[3.5] A terrible thought

[Doc Roc]

Spellguard Rings let you make the person wearing the other part of the set immune to a spell you cast.

Assuming full magic\psi transparency, what happens if you manifest Forced Dream, make your friend immune, time-hop forward, and then roll the universe back?

Notes:

1. The immunity is executed as part of the manifesting, as per paying the cost, so it's not rolled back.
2. There are a variety of similar effects if psi\magic transparency isn't complete, but for now, let's examine forced dream.
3. Forced Dream is found in Magic of Eberron.
4. Spellguard Rings are from Complete Mage.

[arguskos]

Uh... um... uh... paradox! The universe implodes!

Also, more seriously, I have no idea.

[Tiki Snakes]

Spellguard Rings let you make the person wearing the other part of the set immune to a spell you cast.

Assuming full magic\psi transparency, what happens if you manifest Forced Dream, make your friend immune, time-hop forward, and then roll the universe back?

Notes:

1. The immunity is executed as part of the manifesting, as per paying the cost, so it's not rolled back.
2. There are a variety of similar effects if psi\magic transparency isn't complete, but for now, let's examine forced dream.
3. Forced Dream is found in Magic of Eberron.
4. Spellguard Rings are from Complete Mage.

"Listen: Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time."

[PId6]

"Listen: Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time."

So it goes.

[chiasaur11]

Ahem.

Snake. You can't do that. You changed the future. You created a time paradox.

[Frerezar]

What book is Forced Dream from?

[Myou]

"You can't mess with the Space-Time Continuum like that. Roll initiative."

[RTGoodman]

What book is Forced Dream from?

Magic of Eberron, as it says in the first post.

[arguskos]

"You can't mess with the Space-Time Continuum like that. Roll initiative."

I'd just skip the initiative altogether.

"Quaruts appear and drag your character into the dark nothingness of oblivion. Roll a new character."

[Myou]

I'd just skip the initiative altogether.

"Quaruts appear and drag your character into the dark nothingness of oblivion. Roll a new character."

"The Quaruts drag him off too. Here, I statted out an NPC you can play, he has five levels in Commoner."

[RTGoodman]

"The Quaruts drag him off too. Here, I statted out an NPC you can play, he has five levels in Commoner."

"Hey, with the Educated feat, I can get enough ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) to know about this demon lord..."

[Myou]

"Hey, with the Educated feat, I can get enough ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) to know about this demon lord..."

"The Quaruts dragged him off too. Something about temporal omniscience and kobolds."

[Doc Roc]

So:

Does your friend become

• Unstuck in time?
• temporally annihilated?
• duplicated?
• the way he left you, marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Could you describe exactly what Time Hop has to do with it? Im kind of confused by that...

[Doc Roc]

It's a stand-in to put some time "between" the beginning of your turn and the end of it, while maintaining your time line so that you can roll things back with forced dream. You don't really need it, but it makes the example more illustrative.

[arguskos]

"Hey, with the Educated feat, I can get enough ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) to know about this demon lord..."

"Oh ****, here come the Quaruts again. Gods, can you STOP breaking the universe?!"

Anyways, on topic, I'd say that your friend is fine, but is brainblown from having experienced another universe that wasn't real.

[Doc Roc]

Anyways, on topic, I'd say that your friend is fine, but is brainblown from having experienced another universe that wasn't real.

Explain a little? :: curious look ::

[arguskos]

Explain a little? :: curious look ::

Isn't that what Forced Dream does? Shunt you someone into an alternative universe, and when it ends, you snap back to this reality? Considering that you are probably protected by the spell, your buddy has no such protection, and gets shafted by the snapback effect.

Or, have I gotten confused with all the fun alternate reality tricks Forced Dream somehow creates?

[Doc Roc]

Not sure how directly I'm allowed to quote it, but what it does is that it allows you to restart your turn, rolling everything back to the state it was in at the beginning of the turn in which you activate it.

We manifest forced dream.
End turn
Start turn
Time hop
---------
come out of time hop
Discharge forced dream, rolling everything back to the way it was at the start of our turn, which just happens to include some intervening turns that we ourselves skipped.


Our friend, however, lived through them. However, he's "protected" from the rollback of the universe. He doesn't get reset when we restore the universe's state to that of our turn's beginning.

[9mm]

So:

Does your friend become

• Unstuck in time?
• temporally annihilated?
• duplicated?
• the way he left you, marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet?

Your friend becomes Scarlet Flandre, and she's pissed.

[Doc Roc]

Considering that I was going to use it to tuck away Neo-Terminators from inside the far realm, then temporal regress the entire universe, leaving "sleeper cells" outside space and time with no point of temporal origin, I think that's an accurate assessment of the situation.

[Signmaker]

Considering that I was going to use it to tuck away Neo-Terminators from inside the far realm, then temporal regress the entire universe, leaving "sleeper cells" outside space and time with no point of temporal origin, I think that's an accurate assessment of the situation.

That's quite the jail cell you're trying to pull.

[Fax Celestis]

Same Trick, Different Mechanics: use Spell Stowaway!

[shadow_archmagi]

So, basically

"We teleport into the future and then look around and then turn back time except our friend doesn't go back with us which means he's trapped in an alternate future"

?

[Doc Roc]

So, basically

"We teleport into the future and then look around and then turn back time except our friend doesn't go back with us which means he's trapped in an alternate future"

It's hard to say. Either he gets trapped in an alternative future, or.... the other options I mentioned.

[Signmaker]

It's hard to say. Either he gets trapped in an alternative future, or.... the other options I mentioned.

And if he hunts down AU you to try and port him back?

[Doc Roc]

"Then he deserves a chance at revenge."

[olentu]

Ok well it has been a bit since I looked at the power but I am pressed for time so I am going on memory of the wording. So if I remember the power correctly then when the power is activated then it sets everything to the condition it was in at the start of the turn including position, uses of abilities, HP, and so forth. So from what I remember there does not seem to be any time travel the universe is just set to the same specific state that it was at the start of the turn. So the person immune is just not set to the same state he was at during the start of the turn and while this might cause problems if the planet moves or he is standing in someones square there does not seem to be anything more then that from what I remember the power saying.

[AgentPaper]

Obviously, the player who was left wherever does an IRON HEAR SUUUUURGE!!! and the players leave for an hour for the DM to figure out what the heck happens and how to explain it.

[arguskos]

Ah, in that case Tide, I'd probably say the poor fellow is trapped in an alternate universe that never happened. However, it's not a prison, since the universe he's in has everything this one does. It ALSO has him in it, which ours doesn't. Basically, you're making new time streams for criminals to be evil in, which, admittedly, is pretty frikkin' sweet.