Perform!?!?!?!??!

[shadow_archmagi]

So, apparently, a DC 25 check is 1d6 gold PER DAY.

:-/

That means after seven weeks of hitting DC 25, and only rolling 6's, a skilled bard is able to equal the treasure a single first-level adventurer earns on his first day of combat.

While the adventurer has earned his money by killing, say, a pair of crippled elderly kobolds, the bard is so talented that he could easily be recruited by the ruling nobility, and if he improves much more, could easily attract the attention of extraplanar creatures.

This does not seem fair.

[NEO|Phyte]

So, apparently, a DC 25 check is 1d6 gold PER DAY.

:-/

That means after seven weeks of hitting DC 25, and only rolling 6's, a skilled bard is able to equal the treasure a single first-level adventurer earns on his first day of combat.

While the adventurer has earned his money by killing, say, a pair of crippled elderly kobolds, the bard is so talented that he could easily be recruited by the ruling nobility, and if he improves much more, could easily attract the attention of extraplanar creatures.

This does not seem fair.

Why would this bard that was assumably already adventuring to reach the levels where he can consistently hit DC 25 want to MASSIVELY cripple his cashflow by retiring to just perform for people?

[Glyde]

I, as the DM, would rule that every so often a nobleman or member of royalty catches him in a performance and makes a substantial donation.

[Andras]

Performing is very, very low-risk compared to adventuring.

[FirebirdFlying]

…Because he might not die that way? Not everyone with ranks in Perform is an adventurer. 1d6 gold is a lot of money for the majority of people.

EDIT: Ninja'ed.

[Kallisti]

Everyone knows that all monsters are dirty filthy rich, whereas NPC's are not. For example, an adventurer is attacked by Ma and Pa Kobold. He kills them. They have the standard treasure per encounter for his level. The same adventurer meets Ma and Pa Kobold in the city of Podunk-Flyspeck, and kills them because he's a racist bastard. They have maybe three copper peces? Maybe?

Truly, Banjo works in mysterious ways...

[Milskidasith]

Preforming is very low risk...

What are you talking about? On a bad check after gaining a lot of popularity, the 1d4 humiliation damage from rotten tomatoes really starts to add up.

[sadi]

Why would this bard that was assumably already adventuring to reach the levels where he can consistently hit DC 25 want to MASSIVELY cripple his cashflow by retiring to just perform for people?

Those lute strings normally aren't quite as fatal as a troll's claws. And once you can consistently hit 25, you have a good chance of hitting 30, for 3d6 a day.

[FirebirdFlying]

Also, like Glyde, I tend to assume the money given there is if someone just waltzed into the middle of the town square and put out a hat, no connections whatsoever - or at least just gig money. There's teaching money, maybe a salary if you're working for someone consistently, etc.

[FoE]

Performing is very, very low-risk compared to adventuring.

But not nearly as fun.

[Elfin]

No, nothing can compare to the fun of being torn apart by vicious talons and drowning in a bloody whirlpool of your own insides, then being devoured whole, crushed and torn even more by razor-sharp fangs, and finally dissolved entirely by stomach acid.
Yep, nothing beats life as an adventurer.

[Kallisti]

What people usually seem to forget is that for every invincible plot-armored PC adventurer, there's a PC adventurer who died of a fatal lack of plot armor, and ten NPC adventurers who died from a fatal lack of lack of monsters.

[FirebirdFlying]

No, nothing can compare to the fun of being torn apart by vicious talons raving fans and drowning in a bloody whirlpool of your own insides (aka vomit), then being devoured whole by the critics, crushed and torn even more by razor-sharp fangs the record companies, and finally dissolved entirely by stomach acid.
Yep, nothing's better than life as an adventurer a musician.

Fixed that for you.

[FoE]

No, nothing can compare to the fun of being torn apart by vicious talons and drowning in a bloody whirlpool of your own insides, then being devoured whole, crushed and torn even more by razor-sharp fangs, and finally dissolved entirely by stomach acid.

On the other hand, no musician ever saved the world, built their own kingdom or ascended to godhood.

Yep, nothing beats life as an adventurer.

I know! Isn't it great?

[Mando Knight]

This does not seem fair.

1d6 gp per day is all a DC 25 check can get you? How about making everyone indifferent to your existence? With 3 synergy skills, a racial bonus, and a feat...

[Sinfire Titan]

Performing is very, very low-risk compared to adventuring.

Low risk, low pay-out.


FYI, a level 1 adventurer can level-grind up to 20th in 2 months. In 2 months, this Bard has the equivalent of 30d6gp. The 20th level adventurer has a standard WBL of 760,000gp, 20 levels worth of class features, 7 or more feats, and who knows how many artifacts or magic items.


Yeah, Perform is seriously overpowered. Nerf it, and while you're at it, nerf the Bard too. Again.



[/Obligatory sarcasm tag]

[Kylarra]

Low risk, low pay-out.


FYI, a level 1 adventurer can level-grind up to 20th in 2 months. In 2 months, this Bard has the equivalent of 30d6gp. The 20th level adventurer has a standard WBL of 760,000gp, 20 levels worth of class features, 7 or more feats, and who knows how many artifacts or magic items.


Yeah, Perform is seriously overpowered. Nerf it, and while you're at it, nerf the Bard too. Again.
[/Obligatory sarcasm tag]

Or they could just be dead.

[Sinfire Titan]

Or they could just be dead.

Fact: 1 in 4 adventurers has needed a Rez spell at some point in their career.


But yeah, nothing ruins your day like a Critical Existence Failure.

[BRC]

Remember that everthing in the rules that is not related to "Kill things and take their stuff" is more or less an afterthought.

Also, while the PC's always have an ample supply of things to kill and stuff to take that is just tough enough to challenge them, but not tough enough to wipe the floor with them, 99% of adventurers are going to keep running into villages harassed by 1st level bandits, or are going to wipe out the cult led by the 17th level necromancer who proceeds to animate their skeletons without bothering to kill them first.

[Random832]

Yeah, Perform is seriously overpowered. Nerf it, and while you're at it, nerf the Bard too. Again.

So... wait...

You need to sing or play to inspire courage.
You need to dance to get any of your wardances off.
You need to sing in order to fight while inspiring courage because otherwise your hands are tied up.
You need to play a handheld instrument in order to continue inspiring courage while casting spells because all Bard spells have Verbal Components.
You need to play the pipes specifically to summon and control rats.
You need to play a stringed instrument to get any of a number of other effects.

all this is written where?

I've never heard of any of these in core. What's a wardance? What's this about rats? What are these alleged string-dependent effects? You can hardly blame the core bard for all this.

[Sinfire Titan]

So... wait...



all this is written where?

I've never heard of any of these in core. What's a wardance? What's this about rats? What are these alleged string-dependent effects? You can hardly blame the core bard for all this.

Snowflake Wardance is in Frostburn. Song of the Heart is in the ECS, Song of the White Raven is in Tome of Battle, and Words of Creation is in the BoED.

Most of the rest can be found while reading the Core rules and seeing how they interact. You cannot sing while casting a Bard spell because only a few Bard spells lack a Verbal component (one or two, and even those are situational), thus you need to play an instrument to maintain your Inspire X ability. You can't use Words of Creation+Song of the Heart+Song of the White Raven with a drum, so you have to sing first.

The pipes part is a magic item. Same with the String instrument part.


Bards effectively need to spend 4 skill points/level on various Perform skills, leaving very little room for much else. Three of the biggest offenders are Core, the remaining two are actually very powerful and should be taken if allowed, and are a staple of Bardic optimization.

[Kallisti]

Well, they did introduce Versatile Performer in the Complete Scoundrel and Melodic Casting in the PHB II, so for two feats you can sing, dance, play stringed intruments, drum, and juggle, and cast spells with verbal components while singing.

But it still means buring one or two feats. Feats that you might, oh, I don't know, need for something else.

[Xenogears]

I always figured you just used perform when the DM said that "plot point X happens in 3 months. What do you guys do?" Answer: "I perform everyday. So thats 90d6; average of 720 gold that I use on these potions we require for plot point X."

[chiasaur11]

On the other hand, no musician ever saved the world, built their own kingdom or ascended to godhood.

Elvis might disagree on the first point. Depending on the threat level of mummies.

[Nai_Calus]

On the other hand, no musician ever ascended to godhood.

Ye'Cind.

To be fair, he WAS apparently an adventurer at one point, but he got promoted to godhood because Corellon Larethian apparently really, really liked his recorder playing.

[ericgrau]

So, apparently, a DC 25 check is 1d6 gold PER DAY.

:-/

That means after seven weeks of hitting DC 25, and only rolling 6's, a skilled bard is able to equal the treasure a single first-level adventurer earns on his first day of combat.

While the adventurer has earned his money by killing, say, a pair of crippled elderly kobolds, the bard is so talented that he could easily be recruited by the ruling nobility, and if he improves much more, could easily attract the attention of extraplanar creatures.

This does not seem fair.

1. Adventurers should make their gold from adventuring not a profession or performance.
2. You also get the attention of noble patrons and become well known nationally. Thems hookups.

[Skorj]

Snowflake Wardance is in Frostburn. Song of the Heart is in the ECS, Song of the White Raven is in Tome of Battle, and Words of Creation is in the BoED.

Most of the rest can be found while reading the Core rules and seeing how they interact. You cannot sing while casting a Bard spell because only a few Bard spells lack a Verbal component (one or two, and even those are situational), thus you need to play an instrument to maintain your Inspire X ability. You can't use Words of Creation+Song of the Heart+Song of the White Raven with a drum, so you have to sing first.

The pipes part is a magic item. Same with the String instrument part.


Bards effectively need to spend 4 skill points/level on various Perform skills, leaving very little room for much else. Three of the biggest offenders are Core, the remaining two are actually very powerful and should be taken if allowed, and are a staple of Bardic optimization.

Don't the effects of bard song last for a few rounds after you stop playing? Is lingering song a 3.5 feat, or 3.0 only? Surely there's a way to sing and cast on alternate rounds.

[Signmaker]

A well-built alchemical crafter rakes in a lot more than a well-built performer, sadly. Damn you, alchemical savants!

[DragoonWraith]

On the other hand, no musician ever saved the world, built their own kingdom or ascended to godhood.

I can think of a large number of rock stars who would argue one or more of those points, hehe.

[sadi]

On the other hand, no musician ever saved the world, built their own kingdom or ascended to godhood.



I know! Isn't it great?

Bono will have a word with you now.