What races are broken?

[Stegyre]

(I avoided using "cheese" in the thread title, this time.)

Like the title says, what races do you consider broken? I am thinking of both (a) races who are better, or much better, than their LA represents, and (b) races whose particular qualities can combine with a particular class or feat combination for almost Pun-Pun levels of this-will-really-spoil-your-campaign.

[kamikasei]

Humans, dwarves, and warforged are all considered on the high end of +0 LA.

Almost all other races are not worth their LA, because the system sucks.

Black ethergaunts are a running joke at the moment, it seems. I think they have a low LA and cast as a wizard of higher level than their HD, or something?

Elans can be overpowered if the aberration type is abused via Alter Self. Same goes for planetouched, especially +0 LA lesser aasimar and tieflings. Elves, I think, due to their many racial proficiency feats, are favourite targets for the Embrace/Shun Shuffle.

[Eldariel]

Elans can be overpowered if the aberration type is abused via Alter Self. Same goes for planetouched, especially +0 LA lesser aasimar and tieflings. Elves, I think, due to their many racial proficiency feats, are favourite targets for the Embrace/Shun Shuffle.

Lesser planetouched don't have the issue - they are Humanoids. Now, Neraphim and Racial Progression Planetouched on the other hand...

Also, Strongheart Halfling belongs on every list Human is in. Same with Silverbrow Human. And Anthropomorphic animals, especially the damn Bat. Finally, Whisper Gnomes are fairly good LA +0; many argue they should be LA +1.


For LA +1, mostly templates are somewhat too strong in Half-Minotaur, Feral, Mineral Warrior, Lolth-Touched and maybe Dark. Then again, LA is so expensive that even something as strong as those is only so strong since you're behind in Hit Dice and class levels.

[Cyclocone]

IIRC, Black Ethergaunts are CR 17, 16 HD, +4 LA and casts as wizard 17.

[Optimystik]

Also, Strongheart Halfling belongs on every list Human is in. Same with Silverbrow Human.

This. But I don't think any races are "broken." Some are stronger than others, but what really breaks the game are classes and feats, not races. After all, the really powerful races usually come with an LA that makes being a caster (or ToB meleer) quite painful, and not playing as a caster or ToB meleer means your character won't be broken.

[MichielHagen]

Isn't Strongheart Halfling 3.0 and not 3.5?

And i believe Whisper Gnome to be a very strong race too.

[Eldariel]

Isn't Strongheart Halfling 3.0 and not 3.5?

And i believe Whisper Gnome to be a very strong race too.

They're in Player's Guide to Faerun, which is a 3.5 source.

[MichielHagen]

They're in Player's Guide to Faerun, which is a 3.5 source.

Good to know, the Faerun books are allowed in our group since last week :D

[kamikasei]

Oh, and of course: kobolds.

Optimystik is right, though. Races are rarely all that broken except where they allow the use of a broken spell (as with Elans and Alter Self. It's not that Elan is broken, it's that Alter Self is way overpowered and interacts brokenly with certain otherwise innocuous races).

[Cieyrin]

Whisper Gnomes are definitely under-LA'd but I love them nonetheless. +Dex, Con, 30' Move, Silence 1/day, ridiculous bonuses to Hide and Move Silently, all on a Small race for no LA is a steal that I'll happily take, no questions asked.

EDIT: Another thing with Elans is taking advantage of Psychic Warrior for Claws of the Beast and going through the Rapidstrike chain. Again, not the Elans themselves that make it broken, it's what you can do with them that is.

[Jack Zander]

I personally think Pixies are broken. They've got Improved Invisiblity at will. That alone is worth it even for their +3 (I think) LA.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Neraph, Whisper Gnome, Anthro, maybe Air Goblin, some Lesser Planetouched... the standard.

The templates already listed are nice.

[Zeta Kai]

Whisper gnomes are pretty much the only race at my table that had their LA actually increased. I usually lower or eliminate LA for odd races, but not after our last campaign. I had a player running a whisper gnome rogue/sorcerer, & he could not be found. No matter how hard people looked for him, he was only visible when he chose to be. Nothing less than DM fiat could track him down. It was pretty cool, but that kinda sickness needed to be toned down.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Try Mindsight, from Lords of Madness page 126. Darkstalker doesn't protect against it, nor does Mind Blank. It only gives the square, but you have area attacks for a reason. Get telepathy with a dip into mindbender.

[Thrawn183]

I personally think Pixies are broken. They've got Improved Invisiblity at will. That alone is worth it even for their +3 (I think) LA.

I gotta disagree with this one. You start encountering inivisibility at level 3. With a LA of +4, you can't even play one till ECL 5. Yeah, if your group isn't used to dealing with invisibility then it's gonna shred some stuff, but when it's most useful (level 5) you also only have one actual class level to work with which isn't going to get you very much.

[Eloel]

Whisper gnomes are pretty much the only race at my table that had their LA actually increased. I usually lower or eliminate LA for odd races, but not after our last campaign. I had a player running a whisper gnome rogue/sorcerer, & he could not be found. No matter how hard people looked for him, he was only visible when he chose to be. Nothing less than DM fiat could track him down. It was pretty cool, but that kinda sickness needed to be toned down.

To crank some numbers, at L1, with 4 ranks in hide, and 18 starting Dex (both completely reasonable), you have +17 to hide. That's ridiculous.

[Zaq]

Dragonborn Raptorans just grate on me. Are they more powerful than, say, Azurin? No, probably not... but it just seems wrong that they should be able to combine the two best features of these races with no cost. (Dragonborn mostly lose their original racial features, but they keep any movement speeds they had. Therefore, a Raptoran who becomes a Dragonborn keeps his or her wings, freeing them up to take Breath or Heart in addition to having a fly speed. Mechanically, there is literally no reason to be, say, a Dragonborn Human over a Dragonborn Raptoran.)

Oh, and I hate Deep Imaskari. Wizards do not need to be better than they already are, but here we have a race specifically designed to make Wizards better. A bonus to INT, a penalty to DEX (hurts a hell of a lot less than the penalty to CON that gray elves get, and I hate gray elves too), and the ability to cast an extra first level spell every day (which helps a LOT when first level spells are all you have)? Yeah, that's necessary. Again, does it outshine a human in the long run? Probably not, but it bothers me that we have a race specifically made to make the best class in the game even better (particularly at low levels, when they actually have to be careful about the spells they cast).

[Yuki Akuma]

I gotta disagree with this one. You start encountering inivisibility at level 3. With a LA of +4, you can't even play one till ECL 5. Yeah, if your group isn't used to dealing with invisibility then it's gonna shred some stuff, but when it's most useful (level 5) you also only have one actual class level to work with which isn't going to get you very much.

They have greater invisibility.

Also, they can fly. This right here is basically a win against anything. Invisibility is bad enough on a 2D scale, when you have to guess height as well...

[Berserk Monk]

Humans, dwarves, and warforged are all considered on the high end of +0 LA.

Humans? Na, I disagree. They don't get that much stuff.

Also, goliaths. LA +1 and look at all the stuff they get.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Probably not, but it bothers me that we have a race specifically made to make the best class in the game even better (particularly at low levels, when they actually have to be careful about the spells they cast).

Eh, CoDzilla would argue that wizards aren't best. Argue, mind you.

Deep Imaskari might be a case where you want to break out roleplaying restrictions.

They have greater invisibility.

Also, they can fly. This right here is basically a win against anything. Invisibility is bad enough on a 2D scale, when you have to guess height as well...

See Invisibility/See the Unseen/etc.. Blindsense/Blindsense/Mindsight. Wind Wall. Hold Portal, for Ao's sake.

[kamikasei]

Humans? Na, I disagree. They don't get that much stuff.

A feat and a skillpoint? I generally see little mechanical reason to take any other +0 class.

[LibraryOgre]

Humans? Na, I disagree. They don't get that much stuff.

What they get, though is flexibility. A free, unfettered-but-for-prereqs feat (something most other characters only get 7 of) is a pretty good bonus, especially when compared to static skill bonuses that may or may not apply to your character idea, and static bonuses to hit monsters that you likely won't encounter after 5th level or so.

Sure, that was part of the idea of humans... they're flexible. However, compared to what others get, it's a very nice bonus.

[Doc Roc]

Also, Strongheart Halfling belongs on every list Human is in. Same with Silverbrow Human. And Anthropomorphic animals, especially the damn Bat.

Bats, why'd it have to be bats?

[Kylarra]

A feat and a skillpoint? I generally see little mechanical reason to take any other +0 class.

Also ease of multiclassing, for the DMs that enforce it.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Humans? Na, I disagree. They don't get that much stuff.

Wot? Human is without a doubt the most powerful core race. Outside of core they are still one of the very best. A Bonus feat goes a long way.

[9mm]

Bats, why'd it have to be bats?

because Wisards are the godamn batman?

[Doc Roc]

because Wisards are the godamn batman?

I believe, sir, that you just crossed the streams.

:: explodes ::

[kamikasei]

Also ease of multiclassing, for the DMs that enforce it.

There are no such creatures. You're just trying to scare me.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Since Prestige Classes are somehow arbitrarily and stupidly exempt, most builds have nothing to worry about.

[lsfreak]

Since Prestige Classes are somehow arbitrarily and stupidly exempt, most builds have nothing to worry about.

Classes are purely metagame concepts, the fact that characters are punished in-character for doing their job is pretty arbitrary.