[3.5/Pathfinder] Question on oversized and heavy weapons

[Drothmal]

First of all, this is the first Thread I post, so I apologize if this is not the right place (I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm never sure)

I'm about to start DMing a campaign next weekend and one of my players wants to make a human warrior with a huge sword that deals a lot of damage. We are playing Pathfinder as core, but we have decided in allowing 3.5 books as alternate sources

He wants to use a Huge platinum bastard sword (he is medium-sized). His argument for the 2 size increases is that with exotic weap. prof. (bastardsword), he can use a bastard sword one handed, which means that he can use a Large bastard sword two handed. He want to combine this with Monkey grip/powerful build/the bracers that let you use a weapon one size bigger to take his weapon all the way to Huge. Finally, he wants to make it out of Platinum (as described in FR magic)

Is this possible? I don't see any overlaps or flaws in the reasoning. I admit that it is a bit cheese (as always with monkey grip), but I'm inclined of allowing it

This would lead to my second problem

In which order should we apply the size and weithg mods? There are 3 options

size/size/Pt= 1d10 --> 2d8 --> 3d8 --> 6d6
size/Pt/size= 1d10 --> 2d8 --> 4d6 --> 6d6
Pt/size/size= 1d10 --> 2d6 --> 3d6 --> 4d6

And just for checking, would this be 2/3 feats?
-EWP(bastardsword)
-EWP(Heavy bastardsword)
- Monkey grip (this could be replaced with the item)

Thanks!

[Fax Celestis]

Monkey Grip and Strongarm Bracers don't stack, unfortunately.

[Drothmal]

He's not asking for them to stack, he will use one or the other. I am just wondering if the second increment through using a one-handed-larger-bastard sword as a 2-hander weap

[Fax Celestis]

I'd go with the last progression, myself.

[Starbuck_II]

1d10 to 2d8 to 3d8 I think.

Never seen huge weapons, but I know 1d10 (Med) goes to 2d8 (large).

He can do this, but he will take that penalty to hit.

And remember larger size means cost more base price.

You can't take Exotic Proficiency bigger size.

So he will take a penalty to hit no matter what if he wants huge.
He can take Large with Strong arm bracers or Powerful Build without penalty.

If he wants a Large sword that can be used with training: he should take proficiency in a full blade (2d8 Med). Can't even use without the proficiency. Arms and Equipment Guide has it I think.

[Kudaku]

First of all if you're inclined to allowing it, then allow it . The argument I present below is purely to satisfy my inner debatant.

I'm sorry to say I don't have access to my books at the moment so I'm stuck with the SRD resources. However, what strikes me as the weak joint in your logic is how he claims Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) allows his warrior to use a Large Bastard Sword two-handed. Reading up on Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Bastard Swords specifies that the feat represents special training specifically to be able to wield the sword one-handed. To me it makes sense that this is essentially getting a feel for the weapon, finding its balance, and learning how to use its weight to your advantage while keeping your off-hand free - it wouldn't involve waving it around like a two-handed weapon, since you can already do that without the feat.

That's just me thinking out loud though, hope it helps.

[Drothmal]

If he wants a Large sword that can be used with training: he should take proficiency in a full blade (2d8 Med). Can't even use without the proficiency. Arms and Equipment Guide has it I think.

I just checked it out, how would a full blade interact with powerful build or strongarm bracers?

The penalty for using a bigger weapon is -2, right?

Btw, thank you very much, this is really helpful

[Fax Celestis]

The penalty for using a bigger weapon is -2, right?

-4, and it counts as one category heavier (that is, a one handed is a two handed, a light is a one handed, etc.). Monkey Grip makes it -2 and the same handedness; the bracers make it +0 and the same handedness.

[Drothmal]

-4, and it counts as one category heavier (that is, a one handed is a two handed, a light is a one handed, etc.). Monkey Grip makes it -2 and the same handedness; the bracers make it +0 and the same handedness.

So a large full blade could be used with the bracers by a medium sized character?

[Cieyrin]

So a large full blade could be used with the bracers by a medium sized character?

Yes, that's correct. Funnily enough, fullblades are also known as ogre's bastard swords, which they essentially are, so the OP's player in a way has a point, just that they do it kinda weird.

I'm of the impression that, as according to the weapon size table, a Large heavy fullblade would do damage as a Gargantuan bastard sword, so 4d8. I'm fairly sure that the heavy weapon rules essentially worked as if the weapon was one size bigger, so I think my numbers work correctly.

[Drothmal]

I'm fairly sure that the heavy weapon rules essentially worked as if the weapon was one size bigger, so I think my numbers work correctly.

That's the funny part, they don't work exactly the same (that is why at the beginning I had 2 different results depending on the order of the modifications). According to magic in Faerun, each 1d8 or 1d10 becomes 2d6

Even though, the more I look at it, I'm wondering more and more if magic in Faerun is 3.5...

[Fax Celestis]

That's the funny part, they don't work exactly the same (that is why at the beginning I had 2 different results depending on the order of the modifications). According to magic in Faerun, each 1d8 or 1d10 becomes 2d6

Even though, the more I look at it, I'm wondering more and more if magic in Faerun is 3.5...

It's 3.0. Just use "heavy" as +1 size.

[Drothmal]

It's 3.0. Just use "heavy" as +1 size.

Then 4d8 it is

Thank you very much to all of you!

[Teron]

-4, and it counts as one category heavier (that is, a one handed is a two handed, a light is a one handed, etc.). Monkey Grip makes it -2 and the same handedness; the bracers make it +0 and the same handedness.

The penalty is always -2 per size category (up to -4 for using a light weapon two sizes too big as a two-hander or a two-hander two sizes too small as a light weapon). Monkey Grip just lets you wield a weapon one size bigger with the same "handedness" you would a properly sized one; it doesn't change the penalty.

[Another_Poet]

The swordsman in me says: a Huge one-handed sword would not be the same as a Large two-handed sword. They would be built differently and the balance would be different.

The 3.5 rules lawyer in me agrees.

The GM in me, however, says: let him do it, it'll be fun :)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Is this possible? I don't see any overlaps or flaws in the reasoning. I admit that it is a bit cheese (as always with monkey grip), but I'm inclined of allowing it.

It's not cheesy. You're looking at him dealing +4d6(14) damage over just a Greatsword for 3 feats, with a -2 penalty to-hit. Compare that to, say, Power Attack+Leap Attack+Shock Trooper, which is adding +24 damage for -6 AC at level 6. And it scales upwards, unlike your players damage.

[Doc Roc]

I just checked it out, how would a full blade interact with powerful build or strongarm bracers?

Powerful build, strongarm bracers, and monkey grip all fail to stack.

Unless something has changed in pathfinder, a fullblade is ALREADY a large weapon. :|

[Mongoose87]

Why doesn't he just use the Strongarm Bracers in conjunction with a Large Platinum Greatsword?