[3.5] Level Drain Defense

[Craig1f]

So I'm playing a game where I'm a level 14 front-liner.
Goliath LA 1, Barb 1, Ranger 2, Horizon Walker 8, Fighter 2

I'm in a party without a cleric. We've got a duskblade/spell thief, warlock/wizard/eldritch whatever, sorc/mage of the arcane order, scout/ranger/swift hunter, and a HipS rogue.

In the last 10 battles, I think I've been drained of around 25 levels. The last battle, a vamp took out 4 of my levels, then the head vamp energy drained me for another 6. An NPC ran up and restored me using some kinda SLA so it didn't take three rounds, but he isn't always around.

So, besides deathward and an Amulet of Protection (or whatever it's called. The one that gives you SR, and then protection of like a dozen levels of drain before getting destroyed), what else can a guy do to safeguard his precious levels?

[Ganurath]

Get turned into a vampire, then have your friends kill your master?

[ghost_warlock]

Take the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat from Libris Mortis.

[ericgrau]

I could only find the expensive scarab of protection. 38k to absorb only 12 attacks.

[Douglas]

Soulfire armor (BoED, costs +4 for continuous Death Ward).

There are a few items in the Magic Item Compendium that would help.

[Craig1f]

In his game vamps are a little different. We actually just killed 2/3 of the First of the Neverborn. Those are the only vamps that can make new vamps. The remaining vamps are just spawn, and can each only make a few thralls. Pretty much vampires will die out.

The third of the First of the Neverborn apparently just hangs out in the underdark, and doesn't resemble a human, and doesn't mess around with mortals anyway. So we've probably destroyed all the vamps.

But there are still 8 more demon-gods with followers who tend to favor Necromancy spells that we have to deal with.

In any event, it's been stated that if you become a vamp, your "world view" changes sufficiently that you become an NPC.

[Craig1f]

I could only find the expensive scarab of protection. 38k to absorb only 12 attacks.

That's what it was ... I was thinking it was amulet of protection of something.

That'll get used up in like 2 fights at this rate. I don't know if all the level draining will keep up, but there has been a lot so far.

[ericgrau]

If you're worried specifically about melee attacks from vampires, that's easy:

Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don’t harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action.

[Craig1f]

Soulfire armor (BoED, costs +4 for continuous Death Ward).

There are a few items in the Magic Item Compendium that would help.

Can't afford it. Although, not a bad idea ... I wonder if I could toss that on a mithral shirt and wear it under my mithral full plate ...

[Craig1f]

If you're worried specifically about melee attacks from vampires, that's easy:

This is the first time it has been vamps. And the vamps are custom. Only the weakest ones are bothered by garlic, and it pretty much just makes them sickened.

[Craig1f]

Reducing level drain is fine. I don't need perfect solutions.

Reducing 4 negative levels to 2 for example would be just fine.

Are there good stuff in MiC? I've checked, but not recently. I don't remember any great items for it.

[ericgrau]

Vampires with weaknesses removed? Bad form! Um, try a scroll of deathward, 1125 gp. DC 30 use magic device.

EDIT: Or just protect yourself against slam and other attacks. Vamps have only BAB and strength giving them AB. That's maybe 15+6=21 strength (+5 mod), up to 14 BAB at CR 16, for a total AB of up to 19. A decent AC could make them miss a lot. Try armor, shield, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, dusty rose prism ioun stone. Mix multiple weak items to get lots of AC for cheap. An AC of 35 with a shield should be doable, or more with a tower shield or combat expertise. Without a shield you could still probably hit 31-32. (RE-EDIT with AB and AC estimates)

[tyckspoon]

Get a +1 Soulfire buckler. You don't have to use it as a shield at all, just wear it. If you can't find a way to free up the 25,000 for that at level 14 you are either significantly under-wealthed or way too reliant on your items.

[Craig1f]

Vampires with weaknesses removed? Bad form! Um, try a scroll of deathward, 1125 gp. DC 30 use magic device.

EDIT: Or just protect yourself against slam and other attacks. Vamps are +2 CR above the base creature, with only BAB and strength giving them AB. A decent AC could make them miss a lot. Try armor, shield, ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, dusty rose prism ioun stone. Mix multiple weak items to get lots of AC for cheap.

He practically has to homebrew his major monsters. We're all power-gamers. We actually had to learn which "rumors" about vamps were true, and which were false. It was an epic battle. Future fights are not expected to be against powerful vamps. We'll clean the Spawns up pretty easily I think. I'm just seeing a huge pattern of level draining.

AC is a problem. I'm a shock-trooper with pounce, so I'm charging and taking my AC 27 to like AC 12. My touch AC is 0. I pretty much only have a useful AC when I'm not charging, which is not super-common.

The last time, the level-drain was the result of a cloud exhaled by a large demon. This time it was a touch-attack by one of the vamps, not a slam, and energy drain from the other. Then there is a recurring theme with some demonic oozes that'll drain you if they touch you. Although, that particular attack can be defended against by wearing a jade necklace, which chops the levels drained in half.

[Craig1f]

Get a +1 Soulfire buckler. You don't have to use it as a shield at all, just wear it. If you can't find a way to free up the 25,000 for that at level 14 you are either significantly under-wealthed or way too reliant on your items.

My character got assassinated by his (The DM's) other gaming group, which is an evil party. They took all my ****. So my character IS under-armed, and is actually about 40k in debt. That's what I get for going out and soloing Stone Giants between missions. They buffed the stone giant while I was fighting it, and then jumped me in the middle of the battle.

So yeah, the half-orc in their other campaign has all my cool items. I had custom boots that treated my armor as one category lighter. So my mithral full plate was effectively light armor! Damn thief!

[Cieyrin]

Take the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat from Libris Mortis.

Won't help, as it just reverses the effects of Negative and Positive energy, which has nothing to do with Negative levels.

What you want is Enduring Life, which will make you ignore negative levels for Con bonus minutes and give you a +4 to save to shed the levels after 24 hours. There's also Lasting Life, which also requires Endurance, which lets you attempt to shed the levels 1/rd as a standard action against a special Will save, so if you can get it off before the Enduring Life grace period ends, you won't suffer at all.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[Optimystik]

My character got assassinated by his other gaming group, which is an evil party. They took all my ****. So my character IS under-armed, and is actually about 40k in debt. That's what I get for going out and soloing Stone Giants between missions. They buffed the stone giant while I was fighting it, and then jumped me in the middle of the battle.

So yeah, the half-orc in their other campaign has all my cool items. I had custom boots that treated my armor as one category lighter. So my mithral full plate was effectively light armor! Damn thief!

Wow, you're screwed. Just offer your neck to the next vamp you see.

[ericgrau]

Demonic stuff is extraplanar evil so a potion of protection of evil should stop all touch, provided that you don't attack the creature in question and if the potion overcomes its SR. If the sorc/mage can grab magic circle against evil and tag whoever will be in the middle of the group with it in the morning, that'd help even more since you don't have to waste time chugging a potion. Ranged or weapon attacks are still a bugger, but if one warded person (or a familiar) is in front stopping the baddy then at least everyone else might be out of range.

[Craig1f]

Won't help, as it just reverses the effects of Negative and Positive energy, which has nothing to do with Negative levels.

What you want is Enduring Life, which will make you ignore negative levels for Con bonus minutes and give you a +4 to save to shed the levels after 24 hours. There's also Lasting Life, which also requires Endurance, which lets you attempt to shed the levels 1/rd as a standard action against a special Will save, so if you can get it off before the Enduring Life grace period ends, you won't suffer at all.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

AWESOME! Oh man, I wish I had some feats to spare ... I may actually consider it.

We can actually spend an action point to get a feat that we qualify for for one round. I should see if he'll allow this. He tends to be cautious about allowing anything that's not in the PHB or Complete books without reviewing it first. Although, my character has a theme that might convince him that this feat fits the theme.

[Craig1f]

Wow, you're screwed. Just offer your neck to the next vamp you see.

Again, we killed the only vamps that can make new vamps. So the vampire thing is pretty much old hat.

And I'm not screwed. I got to reincarnate as a Goliath (was a half-orc) and rebuild some things. Overall, it was a win for me. I'm just a little in-debt is all ...

I'm in debt because my guild loaned me 40k to get me back up and running since, you know, we're saving the world and what not.

Demonic stuff is extraplanar evil so a potion of protection of evil should stop all touch, provided that you don't attack the creature in question and if the potion overcomes its SR. If the sorc/mage can grab magic circle against evil and tag whoever will be in the middle of the group with it in the morning, that'd help even more since you don't have to waste time chugging a potion. Ranged or weapon attacks are still a bugger, but if one warded person (or a familiar) is in front stopping the baddy then at least everyone else might be out of range.

I'm a front-liner. The first thing I'm going to do is attack. Even if it makes tactical sense not to, my character is a raging barbarian. It's his character to charge and swing.

[ericgrau]

I'm a front-liner. The first thing I'm going to do is attack. Even if it makes tactical sense not to, my character is a raging barbarian. It's his character to charge and swing.

Then ask the sorc to send in a warded familiar . You might be too close to any ranged abilities (and melee for that matter), but it might at least keep it from your party.

[Craig1f]

Then ask the sorc to send in a warded familiar . You might be too close to any ranged abilities (and melee for that matter), but it might at least keep it from your party.

Oooh, clever. The sorc got rid of his familiar so he could have rapid metamagic, but the warlock/wizard has a bat. Although, I'm not sure he'll want to risk his familiar getting blasted, and all the XP loss that goes with it.

[The Glyphstone]

Again, we killed the only vamps that can make new vamps. So the vampire thing is pretty much old hat.

And I'm not screwed. I got to reincarnate as a Goliath (was a half-orc) and rebuild some things. Overall, it was a win for me. I'm just a little in-debt is all ...

I'm in debt because my guild loaned me 40k to get me back up and running since, you know, we're saving the world and what not.



I'm a front-liner. The first thing I'm going to do is attack. Even if it makes tactical sense not to, my character is a raging barbarian. It's his character to charge and swing.

Ask your guild to contribute enough help to ambush and kill/incapacitate your party, then take exactly 40K worth of magical gear away from them to 'pay off' your debt. Fair's fair, after all - and you definitely don't want your Stupid Evil teammates (randomly ganking one of your party members to take his stuff is Stupid Evil by definition) to start thinking of you as a loot piggybank.

[Craig1f]

Ask your guild to contribute enough help to ambush and kill/incapacitate your party, then take exactly 40K worth of magical gear away from them to 'pay off' your debt. Fair's fair, after all - and you definitely don't want your Stupid Evil teammates (randomly ganking one of your party members to take his stuff is Stupid Evil by definition) to start thinking of you as a loot piggybank.

You misunderstand. The DM's OTHER group, his Thursday group, jumped us. They've been "hearing about us", and knew we'd be a threat, so they tried to pick us off one-by-one, starting with my guy. Plus, they have a half-orc in their party. Let's say you'er a half-orc front-liner, and you want optimized gear for a half-orc front-liner. What do you do? Kill the half-orc front-liner in your enemy's party!

In any event, I'm not killing my own party. They're all Good. They were leveling while I was out fighting giants.

[Craig1f]

We're getting way off topic.

Defense against Negative Levels.

We have some good ones. Scarab of Protection
Enduring Life (awesome one if it's approved!)
Stuff in the MiC maybe? I don't know. I've looked a little, but not thoroughly.
Soulfire, +4 to armor. Way too expensive, but not bad.
Bone Ring, 20,000gp, MIC

[Craig1f]

Also, ways to recover from Level Drain or ignore the effects temporarily are also good. Is Restoration really the only way to undo level drain?

[Cieyrin]

AWESOME! Oh man, I wish I had some feats to spare ... I may actually consider it.

We can actually spend an action point to get a feat that we qualify for for one round. I should see if he'll allow this. He tends to be cautious about allowing anything that's not in the PHB or Complete books without reviewing it first. Although, my character has a theme that might convince him that this feat fits the theme.

If nothing else, when you level to 15th, you'll have a standard feat choice for it.

EDIT:

Also, ways to recover from Level Drain or ignore the effects temporarily are also good. Is Restoration really the only way to undo level drain?

Well, there's Greater Restoration but that's probably not the answer you were looking for. The other answer I can find off-hand is another feat from Libris Mortis, Spurn Death's Touch, which removes negative levels, but only specifically those inflicted by undead special abilities, so no enervation or energy drain. Clerics can take it as their 1st level feat, so if you can get someone to dip Cleric for Turning ability (or get turning some other way), that's also viable. In the same vein, a Cleric could also take Sacred Vitality to make himself immune to negative levels for 1 minute per Turn Attempt.

[Glimbur]

Ring of Negative Protection from MiC. 36K. You cannot gain negative levels and don't take damage from Negative Planes. Simple, pricey, but effective.

[Craig1f]

If nothing else, when you level to 15th, you'll have a standard feat choice for it.

Yeah, except I'm going Rolibar's Gambit.

Rolibar's Gambit + Knockback = You can't Full attack me.

Ring of Negative Protection from MiC. 36K. You cannot gain negative levels and don't take damage from Negative Planes. Simple, pricey, but effective.

For the win! It's pricey, but worth the price. I'm going to see if I can pick one of those up with the spoils from destroying this Master Vampire. We raided his vault. The DM said that "I expected one of the vampires to flee to the vault, retrieve all the good stuff, and escape. I didn't expect you guys to kill both and find the vault." So he admits we're about to get a ton of gold.

[Keld Denar]

Using the rules in the A&EG, you could also buy Bracers of Armor with Soulfire. They would be 25,000 gold (+1 with +4 Soulfire =+5). The +1 armor would be redundant with your actual armor, but the Soulfire would function. This is probably the cheapest option.

MIC has the Death Ward enhancement. It protects you from 1 Negative Energy or [Death] effect once per day as an immediate action. Its only a +1 equiv, and if you put it on your armor, animated shield, and bracers, you'd be protected 3/day. That'll probably be relatively cheap too, depending on your other gear.