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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Olo Demonsbane View Post
    Yeah, but what about above 3d8? Does it then become 6d6? Which goes to 6d8? That seems what RAW would be...
    4d8 > 6d8 > 8d8 > 12d8 > 16d8 > 24d8 > 32d8 > 48d8 > 64d8, etc.

    Basically, the same increment is repeated twice, then doubled and so on. If it goes into 3dx and 4dx as d8, it'll keep progressing as d8 and if it goes there as d6, it'll keep progressing as d6. No other die sizes have this progression; all default to either-or.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-09-02 at 09:57 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Ok, thanks.

    That Guy with the REALLY Big Shield

    Goliath (LA Bought off) Psiwarrior 7
    1: Improved Shield Bash (PHB), Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Profecioncy (Heavy Shield Spikes)
    2: Monkey Grip
    3: Improved Bullrush
    5: Leap Attack
    6: Shock Trooper

    Equipment: +1 Bashing Heavy Shield with +1 Gold Shield Spikes with a wand chamber holding a wand of enlarge weapon, Strongarm Bracers

    Standard Size:
    +1 Bashing Collosal Heavy Shield with +1 Gold Shield Spikes
    Wielded in Two Hands
    1d6>1d8>2d6>3d6>4d6>6d6>8d6>12d6>16d6 damage

    Enlarged Shield (From Wand in Wand chamber within shield):
    +1 Bashing Collosal (+1) Heavy Shield with +1 Gold Shield Spikes
    Wielded in Two Hands
    1d6>1d8>2d6>3d6>4d6>6d6>8d6>12d6>16d6>24d6 damage

    Augmented Expansion:
    +1 Bashing Collosal (+2) Heavy Shield with +1 Gold Shield Spikes
    Wielded in Two Hands
    1d6>1d8>2d6>3d6>4d6>6d6>8d6>12d6>16d6>24d6>32d6 damage

    Augmented Expansion + Enlarged Shield:
    +1 Bashing Collosal (+3) Heavy Shield with +1 Gold Shield Spikes
    1d6>1d8>2d6>3d6>4d6>6d6>8d6>12d6>16d6>24d6>32d6>48 d6 damage

    His shield now is 384' by 256'. And he only threatens 15ft with it
    Last edited by Olo Demonsbane; 2009-09-03 at 03:54 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Olo Demonsbane View Post
    How big are the shields for medium humanoids? I'd like to figure out how big this guy's door is
    2' by 3'? I dunno, I'm just guessing.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    I think you went one size too large, Olo. Powerful Build + Monkey Grip only gets you up 2 sizes, so Huge Shield. Heavy Spikes put it up 2 more categories and Bashing for the final 2 for standard size. You have the right number of size shifts, just the wrong size name modifier.

    Kite shields, which I think are probably a good approximation for a medium heavy shield, were at maximum 3' x 2', so a Huge Heavy Shield is probably 4 times as big as that, so 12' x 8'. Enlarged to Gargantuan makes it 24' x 16'. When Expanded, that's another 2 sizes to 96' x 64'. That's a big friggin' door. @_@

    Also, I think we can possibly make this bigger, though it'll involve a different spell and shield design. Greater Mighty Wallop raises the size of bludgeoning weapons by 1 for every 4 CLs, so if we don't spike the shield and make the shield itself heavy, we can raise the shield's effective size by another 2 size categories if we assume a wand of Greater Mighty Wallop at CL 20. The only issue is I don't remember off-hand whether that spell caps at Colossal or not.
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    I think you went one size too large, Olo. Powerful Build + Monkey Grip only gets you up 2 sizes, so Huge Shield. Heavy Spikes put it up 2 more categories and Bashing for the final 2 for standard size. You have the right number of size shifts, just the wrong size name modifier.
    I think you forgot the fact that Im wielding it two handed, which allows for a shield of one size higher at a -2 bonus to hit.

    Kite shields, which I think are probably a good approximation for a medium heavy shield, were at maximum 3' x 2', so a Huge Heavy Shield is probably 4 times as big as that, so 12' x 8'. Enlarged to Gargantuan makes it 24' x 16'. When Expanded, that's another 2 sizes to 96' x 64'. That's a big friggin' door. @_@
    Thats insane. The guy is only like 15ft tall

    Also, I think we can possibly make this bigger, though it'll involve a different spell and shield design. Greater Mighty Wallop raises the size of bludgeoning weapons by 1 for every 4 CLs, so if we don't spike the shield and make the shield itself heavy, we can raise the shield's effective size by another 2 size categories if we assume a wand of Greater Mighty Wallop at CL 20. The only issue is I don't remember off-hand whether that spell caps at Colossal or not.
    I think it caps...unfortanately.
    Last edited by Olo Demonsbane; 2009-09-02 at 11:29 PM.

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Kite shields, which I think are probably a good approximation for a medium heavy shield, were at maximum 3' x 2', so a Huge Heavy Shield is probably 4 times as big as that, so 12' x 8'. Enlarged to Gargantuan makes it 24' x 16'. When Expanded, that's another 2 sizes to 96' x 64'. That's a big friggin' door. @_@
    Funnier yet is that you only threaten 15'.

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    As far as maneuvers go ... you could argue for almost any Strike that does a lot of damage (for its level), since all of them make two-handed Power Attacking just less necessary.

    But I think Insightful Strike (and Greater thereof) deserve special mention, as maneuvers that literally make a one-handed weapon just as dangerous as a two-handed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Agile Shield Fighter: This one feat essentially replaces the 3 Two Weapon Fighting feats (plus the Oversized Two Weapon Fighting feat, if you want to use Power Attack) when your are fighting with a shield and unarmed strike. PHBII pg 74.
    Misread.

    Good news: It doesn't only work with unarmed strikes.
    Good news: You're right about it being a substitute for OTWF, including working with Power Attack builds.

    Bad news: it doesn't actually work at all with unarmed strikes.
    More bad news: it's pretty much only the TWF feat for shields, not the ITWF or GTWF feats.
    More bad news: it has prerequisite feats, including the Shield Specialization feat, which, according to your guide, sucks.

    Essentially, this feat is TWF without the Dexterity requirement. With the caveat in return that one of your two weapons has to be a shield. With the Power Attack compatibility you mentioned as an extra.

    It's a pretty great feat, but only for the right build -- pretty much the heavily-armored, mounted, shield-and-lance warrior.

    (And I don't actually think Shield Specialization is that bad. I mean, people talk about how much better Dodge would be if it applied to all foes rather than just one. Sure, it's still only worth taking for the prerequisite angle ... but it's not too painful of a cost IMHO.)

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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Olo Demonsbane View Post
    I think you forgot the fact that Im wielding it two handed, which allows for a shield of one size higher at a -2 bonus to hit.
    Well, by that logic you should have another size increase in damage then, making your giant ass door 192' x 128'. Ye gods, you should be dropping the thing on people rather than wielding it, you'll hit more of them that way. Actually, that isn't a door anymore, you apparently grabbed a portcullis!

    Though, I wonder a bit if you can actually do that the way you suggest. So you grab a weapon one size category larger than you can grab (Large for a Powerfully built Medium creature) to increase the handedness from 1 hand to 2 (Huge) and then you Monkey grip one beyond that for the same-handedness (Gargantuan), right? That feels like it stretches the rules a little but wielding something that huge kinda warrants it. especially considering you do it by ECL 8.
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Shield-Related Items

    Arms of the Naga (Savage Species p. 55, 56000 GP). Expensive, but gives you a spare set of arms to carry a shield.

    Dastana + Chahar-Aina (Oriental Adventures). Both of these items can be added to padded, leather, or chain shirt armor. They both add a +1 armor bonus that explicitly stacks with other armor and shield bonuses. If enchanted, the enhancement bonuses *do not* stack, but enchanting them separately is cheaper than loading up armor enhancements on one item.

    Gloves of Man (Savage Species p. 57, 42000 GP). Not much cheaper than the Arms of the Naga, but if you have appendages such as tentacles or are in a form without opposable thumbs, these would allow you to manipulate objects or carry a shield.

    Glove of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk p. 71, 3600 GP). Works just like a glove of storing without the horrendously inflated 3.5 price tag. Whip out your shield as a free action. And yes, Ghostwalk got a 3.5 update and they didn't change the price. If you need to gloves, try a Kimono of Storing (Oriental Adventures p. 140, 20000 GP). Unfortunately, they did update the price to 20k, but oddly enough only in Dragon #318 and *not* in the official errata.

    Phylactery of Change (A&EG p. 135, 11200 GP). Somewhat cheap way to all-day polymorph into a Diopsid or Thri-Kreen.

    Spare Hand (MIC p. 137, 12000 GP). If you have access to an Artificer, a 2nd level infusion allows this hand to carry a buckler or light shield.

    Ring of Arming (MIC p. 122, 5000 GP). While the Called property may be cheaper for one item, if you have to call each piece of armor or weapon separately, then the Ring of Arming will save you a lot of standard actions, and may be cheaper in the long run.

    Unseen Servant (Collar of Perpetual Attendance, anyone?) + Darkwood Feycraft Tower Shield. I've never been entirely clear on the mechanics for tower shields... I know you can't get a shield bonus if the Unseen Servant is carrying it, but I think you could stand behind it and treat it as cover for a +4 AC bonus.

    Special Materials and Templates

    Aurorum (BoED p. 38, +4000 GP). There are many ways to ignore hardness and sunder through adamantine. This lets you put your favorite shield back together as a full-round action.

    Feycraft (DMGII p. 275, +500 GP). Reduce ASF 5%, +1 untyped bonus on Bluff checks.

    Githcraft (DMGII p. 276, +600 GP). Reduce ASF 5%, +1 untyped bonus on Con checks (Diamond Mind strikes, anyone?).

    Kaorti (WotC article). Shield spikes = piercing, so kaorti resin can give you a shield with a x4 crit multiplier. You'll need EWP to attack without a -4 penalty.

    Living Metal (MoF p. 179). Kinda a cheaper knockoff of mithril, increases dex bonus +1, reduce armor check by 1, and reduce ASF by 5%. Also heals itself if it takes damage.

    Serren (BoED p. 38, +? GP). By RAW, only works for arrows/bolts, but a cooperative DM might let you get away with a shield made out of Serren (wood shape, maybe?). Adds the ghost touch quality. Try Astral Driftmetal for incorporeal foes, although I don't see a cost listed for shields in the Planar Handbook.

    PrCs

    Ironsoul Forgemaster (MoI p. 127). Shield Bond allows you to pump essentia into your shield for acid + cold + electricity + fire + *sonic* resistance. Also allows early access to the Heart Chakra at ECL 15.


    I'll add more when I have time... need to go over augment crystals and armor/weapon properties.

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Though, I wonder a bit if you can actually do that the way you suggest. So you grab a weapon one size category larger than you can grab (Large for a Powerfully built Medium creature) to increase the handedness from 1 hand to 2 (Huge) and then you Monkey grip one beyond that for the same-handedness (Gargantuan), right? That feels like it stretches the rules a little but wielding something that huge kinda warrants it. especially considering you do it by ECL 8.
    I'm pretty sure this is the traditional MONKEY GRIP DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY- to wit, Powerful Build and Monkey Grip both let you wield something one size category larger than your base at the same handedness. Monkey Grip makes you pay for it with a feat and a penalty, Powerful Build usually costs you an LA, but since they both reference your real size, they don't stack.

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Updated the damage. Anyone have any other ways of increasing it? I go to +16d6 damage per size increase now...

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Great thread, P_M.

    Could I suggest a pair of optional rules?

    In Dragon Magazine there is a Fighter variant (you can find it in crystalkeep's classes list) called shield bearer.
    It allows to use shield as Unarmed for the purpose of stunning fist.
    I was thinking that with stunning fist, and maybe staggering critical in DMcompendium, combined with shield slam from CW, you could have 2-3 chances to stun-daze an enemy with a charge or a full round action. Maybe you could build a warrior with combat form feats from PHII, since you have to pimp wis for SF (even if the other 2 attacks are strenght based). Maybe 2 levels of psywarrior (expansion ---> bigger shield).

    In Wotc archives there is a suggested fine houserule around the trip rules explanation (in "rules of the game").
    It suggest a +4 bonus on trip attempts made with tower shield. I mean, with ITrip is a +8. Could be possible optimize it with other towershield-related feats like turtle dart style from races of stone?


    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Serren (BoED p. 38, +? GP). By RAW, only works for arrows/bolts, but a cooperative DM might let you get away with a shield made out of Serren (wood shape, maybe?). Adds the ghost touch quality.
    Try jaded (OAdv) shield blades. you have a little malus on attack and damage, but is a stone and brings gosht touch, so you can bash a goshtformed ironguarded spellcaster. And smile while you are doing it.
    Last edited by Kaiyanwang; 2009-09-03 at 01:46 AM.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    sweet! a shield guide! About time they get some love!

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Don't forget the Block Arrow feat (Heroes of Battle 79): Deflect Arrows with shield instead of unarmed strike. Easier prerequisites too, cause you don't need IUS. I'm not sure how well loved the deflect arrows ability is, but I'd take it.
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Stormguard Bracers: Let's you wield weapons (which presumably includes shields) one size larger then normal without penalty. Does not stack with Powerful Build. 6,000 gp, Magic Item Compendium pg 139.
    Strongarm Bracers, not Stormguard. <_<;;

    Also on the Olo build, it's more that you need to get the shield to start as a d10 to get the d8 progression for size.
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Mr. ReallyBigShield and prehensile-tail Kobalds make me look rather silly, I guess, but...

    I've been playing a sword and board (with no animated shield) paladin/crusader multiclass for quite some time as part of an irc-based Age of Worms campaign. And, while he's far from optimized, I've been having a lot of fun with him, and I think he's turned out to be a useful member of the party. So, despite several house rules in play (most notably feats every 2 levels instead of every 3), here's his character sheet and some observations from his trip so far (level 1 to level 18)

    character sheet is online at: http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/...r.php?cid=5781

    1) One useful spell not mentioned so far is in the spell compendium (page 79), called energized shield. Basically, it lets you enchant any shield so that deals +2d6 elemental (pick any one element at time of casting) damage on a successful shield bash, and also grants the wielder resistance 10 to the chosen element. Duration is only 1 round/level, but its still a nice damage boost and also an on-demand source of pretty much any elemental damage you need. Cleric 3/paladin 2 spell so if you can't cast it yourself go bug the neighborhood cleric until he preps a couple.

    2) I highly recommend levels in ToB classes to any sword and board fighter. There's more than enough ToB maneuvers that add fixed damage to attacks for you to get your shield bash damage up to "I'm contributing" levels, and since they are pretty much all standard actions or less they still let you move around to get between the monster and the squishies if you need to. The ability to start adding on bonus 2d6s or 2d8s at the low levels, and +6d6 or 8d8 around level 10, etc. helps out a lot.

    3) This is listed under the feats section, but I just want to reiterate that Shield Ward (PHBII) plus Divine Shield (C. Warr) is a huge combination. With divine shield up, my character listed above ends up with a touch AC better than several party member's regular AC (in addition to getting to add +13 every time someone tries to grapple or bull rush me)

    4) Try to come up with either some means of forcing a target to go after you If the DM is playing smart, a lot of enemies will quickly pick up that they can't really do much to hurt you (particularly if you have the divine shield + shield ward combo) and go look for something squishier to eat. Life would have been a lot easier for my character if I'd had combat reflexes + thicket of blades or a few knight levels or something similar. (Without them, best I could come up with was simply picking one scary looking monster and running off to keep him busy while the remainder of the party dealt with the rest of the stuff)

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailurus View Post
    4) Try to come up with either some means of forcing a target to go after you If the DM is playing smart, a lot of enemies will quickly pick up that they can't really do much to hurt you (particularly if you have the divine shield + shield ward combo) and go look for something squishier to eat. Life would have been a lot easier for my character if I'd had combat reflexes + thicket of blades or a few knight levels or something similar. (Without them, best I could come up with was simply picking one scary looking monster and running off to keep him busy while the remainder of the party dealt with the rest of the stuff)
    Try the Goad feat in CAdv.

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    The game died before it started, but I built at Dwarven Defender who attacked with his shield and used a Defending Dancing sword. It was a lot of fun putting together...
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Shield Properties, MIC

    Acidic, +1 bonus. Great ability for a buckler or light shield if you've got a grappler build. Grappler build, however... not so optimal.

    Anchoring (and Greater Anchoring), +1 bonus. Meh. There are a dozen-gazillion different ways to get a bonus on resisting bull rush/overrun/trips. This is another one.

    Aporter, +20000 GP. Way too expensive for 2/day. Anklets of Translocation, Boots of Big Stepping, Boots of Swift Passage, Dimension Stride Boots, and even a War Wizard Cloak are cheaper.

    Averter, +13000 GP. Not worth it. Although most creatures have low Will saves, DC 14 is fairly easy to make, and there are too many enemies immune to mind effects.

    Axeblock, +2 bonus. Too easy to bypass, waste of money.

    Called, +2000 GP. Great bargain, although if you need to equip multiple pieces of armor and weapons in the same action, a Ring of Arming may be a much better deal. It pairs up nicely with the Spider Bound property (DotU), so you can call your shield back if your spider gets smushed.

    Daylight, +3000 GP. The fixed cost is nice, but unfortunately there are much cheaper light sources, and anything that might take a penalty in daylight can spend 10 GP on Sundark Goggles.

    Death Ward, +1 bonus. Only situationally useful against certain enemies, but the 1/day limitation puts it in the thumbs-down category.

    Ectoplasmic Wall, +2 bonus. Another 1/day waste of money.

    Energy Defense, +1 bonus. 1d6+10 is actually pretty decent damage, so I'm giving this one a thumbs-up.

    Energy Immunity, +2 bonus. Although the immediate action is a slight improvement, this is another 1/day waste of money.

    Fearsome, +15000 GP. There are much, much cheaper ways to make your opponents shaken that lasts longer and can be used more often.

    Ghost Ward, +1 bonus. This is a somewhat cheaper version of limited Ghost Touch, although you may want to look at some alternative special materials such as Riverine or Astral Driftmetal.

    Hammerblock, +2 bonus. Too easy to bypass, waste of money.

    Healing (and Greater Healing), +8000 or +24000 GP. Two words: Healing Belt. The swift/automatic activation is a nice feature, but you can get the same effect by mounting a Glyph Seal on your shield.

    Heartening, +2000 GP. 2K for 5 temporary HP, 2/day, that don't stack? Not a good deal.

    Linked, +6000 GP. Rings of Communication or Sending Stones are much cheaper.

    Manifester, +6000 GP. I've never played much with Psionics, but 3 PP 1/day for 6000 GP seems a bit overpriced.

    Mindarmor, +3000 GP. This one may actually be worth it. Immediate activation, 3/day, and lasts until the start of your next turn. Losing a Will save usually means losing control of your character, so this sounds like a good investment.

    Ranged, +1 bonus. A two-for-one bargain, this combines the Throwing and Returning properties on a shield, and has a much better 30' range increment than most Throwing weapons. Unfortunately, it locks in your damage to 1d6 or 1d8, so you can't take advantage of oversized or heavy properties. There are several other methods to throw your shield around and have it come back to your hand, but this one is worth considering with the others.

    Soulbound, +1 bonus. The description is confusing because it's not clear if the shield's maximum bonus is +3 enhancement, based on the Essentia Capacity table in MoI, or capped at 2. What if your enhancement bonus is already +3? If capacity is capped at 2, why even mention the table in MoI? In any case, it looks like you can get a +3 shield for the price of a +2 shield, although there may be better ways to do this. The chakra binds are situational, but if you already have an Incarnum character, chances are good you've already got soulmelds that can give a better benefit than this property.

    Spearblock, +2 bonus. Too easy to bypass, waste of money.

    Speed, +6000 GP. Only 3 rounds of Haste? More like 3 rounds of waste. You're better off saving up for Boots of Speed for 10 minutes rounds [Whoops, sorry] of Haste. Or better yet, buy a wand chamber and a wand of Swift Haste for 50 rounds. Adding shield spikes with a Speed weapon enhancement would be another option.

    Time Buttress, +5 bonus. If you can afford to buy a +5 enhancement, you can afford to buy a real Time Stop, and not this overpriced waste of money.

    Vanishing, +3 bonus. If you're just looking for invisibility, a Vanishing Cloak or Boots of Tracklessness are going to be a much better deal. The other non-magical non-detection effect is too easily circumvented via magic or creatures immune to mind effects.

    Variable, +1 bonus. This may be worth it depending on what you're trying to accomplish, although adding the Sizing weapon property or Morphing property might work better.

    Shield Augment Crystals

    If you don't count weapon crystals, there are only 4 augment crystals that work with shields:

    Clasp of Energy Protection, 500/1500/3000 GP. The damage limit per day is a knock against it, but the main advantage is you can swap them out fairly easily, so you can add more fire protection if one crystal maxes out, or switch to another energy type as the situation demands.

    Crystal of Adamant Armor, 300/1400/3400 GP. Meh... might be cheaper than adamantine if the rulebook bothered to mention how much an adamantine shield costs (it doesn't). If you're that worried about sundering, you might want to look at another special material such as Aurorum or Riverine.

    Crystal of Arrow Deflection, 500/2500/5000 GP. Great bargain for an untyped bonus against all ranged attacks. For the Greater crystal, the bonus goes back down to +2, but you get the effects of the Deflect Arrows feat. Normally, an item that provides a feat should cost at least 10000 GP, but here it's half that, and you don't need Improved Unarmed Strike (and an argument could be made you don't need a hand free, either.)

    Crystal of Bent Sight, 500 GP. Very situational item, and doesn't provide complete protection (the creature can still gaze at you on its own turn). A Blindfold of True Darkness or Helm of Gazes might be a better investment if you know what you're going up against. On the other hand, 500 GP is a lot cheaper than either of those items.

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    OK, I'm re-editing my entire first post to include all the great updates on the thread. I should have it posted in the next hour or two. Please keep the good tips coming in.

    Couple of questions:

    Ailurus, can you post your build. I'm happy to include it, but I'm at work and blocked from your link.

    If a shield has shield spikes, is it a piercing weapon, or a bludgeoning and piercing weapon? My sense is that it should be the latter, which would help out for DR and certain feats. But the RAW says "these spikes turn it into a martial piercing weapon."

    I'm under the impression that according to the FAQ, you can use a shield bash as a primary weapon, and thus use your shield as a two handed weapon. This is important for Captain America style builds, who might want to mix up a combination of two handed shield attacks (on a Charge or AoO), TWF or Agile Shield Fighter (on a full attack), and thrown shield attacks. But there's been some disagreement on the thread. Does anyone have a good definitive answer to this?

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    I'm under the impression that according to the FAQ, you can use a shield bash as a primary weapon, and thus use your shield as a two handed weapon. This is important for Captain America style builds, who might want to mix up a combination of two handed shield attacks (on a Charge or AoO), TWF or Agile Shield Fighter (on a full attack), and thrown shield attacks. But there's been some disagreement on the thread. Does anyone have a good definitive answer to this?
    I think the FAQ answer someone quoted is the most definitive answer you're going to get. I think it was a very reasonable stance for the FAQ to take, not one of the occasional inconsistent FAQ entries that many DMs will disagree with.
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    Default Re: [3.X] Person Man's Guide to Shields

    A note on ghost ward. Darrin said it was a cheaper, more limited version of ghost touch, but that's not entirely true.

    It adds the enhancement bonus of your shield or armor to your touch AC, which is more limited than ghost ward, but the AC bonus works against all touch attacks, not just the touch attacks of incorporeal creatures. So you get a big boost to your touch AC for the cost of a +1 enhancement rather than two feats (shield ward).
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Shield Properties, MICHealing (and Greater Healing), +8000 or +24000 GP. Two words: Healing Belt. The swift/automatic activation is a nice feature, but you can get the same effect by mounting a Glyph Seal on your shield.
    I wouldn't say no to this one, though. Healing is like activating one charge of the Healing Belt at a time, sure; just remember you get 10 free HP, and it can be activated if you somehow get between -1 to -9, which is a lifesaver. Greater Healing actually costs 32,000 gp (24,000 plus the old Healing, since it's a synergy enhancement), and it's the equivalent of activating two charges of the Healing Belt plus a free 15 HP for the heck of it, PLUS activating on the dying range. Plus, it's not a +X enhancement bonus, so it can be added if you like, and it won't cost against your +X costs.

    Not to mention it's an armor-only bonus. Check it out. I wouldn't deny it for my armor, even if I have the Healing Belt and a Devoted Spirit Amulet with one of the nice maneuvers.

    Manifester, +6000 GP. I've never played much with Psionics, but 3 PP 1/day for 6000 GP seems a bit overpriced.
    It IS overpriced. For 2k less GP, you can get a Cognizance Crystal that does the same effect. The main differences is that the CC can only be used once before requiring recharge (this one recharges automatically per day), and you must use the PP on the same power you manifest, which cannot use power points from any other source (which, by RAW, means your own as well); hence, you can only use 2nd level powers with it. Cognizance crystals allow you to use PP from several sources.

    So yeah, overpriced. And if you go strictly RAW, also pretty worthless.

    Though it's good for a free +4 to an ability score if you know the right power. It's not so bad, after all.

    Soulbound, +1 bonus. The description is confusing because it's not clear if the shield's maximum bonus is +3 enhancement, based on the Essentia Capacity table in MoI, or capped at 2. What if your enhancement bonus is already +3? If capacity is capped at 2, why even mention the table in MoI? In any case, it looks like you can get a +3 shield for the price of a +2 shield, although there may be better ways to do this. The chakra binds are situational, but if you already have an Incarnum character, chances are good you've already got soulmelds that can give a better benefit than this property.
    You completely forgot about Greater Soulbound, right? Getting the equivalent of a +5 shield with a +4 shield. Which makes it all the more laughable, except when you don't have a friendly Cleric or divine spellcaster that casts Magic Vestment on you, since it prefers to use and conserve those on itself. Then, it gains some utility.

    Speed, +6000 GP. Only 3 rounds of Haste? More like 3 rounds of waste. You're better off saving up for Boots of Speed for 10 minutes of Haste. Or better yet, buy a wand chamber and a wand of Swift Haste for 50 rounds. Adding shield spikes with a Speed weapon enhancement would be another option.
    You got both wrong. By SRD, the Boots of Speed give only one minute's worth of Haste; however, it's around 2/3rds of the price of this enhancement.

    Swift Haste is MUCH better, actually; it can be used as a swift action, and it lasts 1d4 rounds per cast, so you can use the wand for about 50-200 rounds, depending on your luck. A Wand Chamber with an Eternal Wand of Swift Haste is decidedly a bit better, since you can get a relatively cheap method of Haste. Technically, you could buy three Eternal Wands of Swift Haste for around a 12% extra cost of Boots of Speed, for 6 daily uses (essentially 2/3rds the potency of Boots of Speed minimum, 1/3rd better in average).

    Still, it's not that bad, since you can mix and match: a speed armor, a speed shield, a wand of Swift Haste, and boots of speed for enough rounds to make a caster forget about preparing Haste (or much better, when your caster doesn't want to prepare Haste)

    Time Buttress, +5 bonus. If you can afford to buy a +5 enhancement, you can afford to buy a real Time Stop, and not this overpriced waste of money.
    Except it doesn't work like Time Stop, mind you. You can still get your action; you are just made invulnerable to everything for a single round. Everything (except the need to breathe and such, or else you'd die of suffocation ;)) Couple that with, say, a trick to reverse a turn, and you have the ultimate re-roll (return the level, then activate the shield; you become immune to the ultra-killing ability)

    If it worries you, make it a +3 bonus or so. It certainly doesn't deserve the +5 worth, even if it's pretty awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    I'm under the impression that according to the FAQ, you can use a shield bash as a primary weapon, and thus use your shield as a two handed weapon. This is important for Captain America style builds, who might want to mix up a combination of two handed shield attacks (on a Charge or AoO), TWF or Agile Shield Fighter (on a full attack), and thrown shield attacks. But there's been some disagreement on the thread. Does anyone have a good definitive answer to this?
    Light Shields count as a light weapon when used with Shield Bash. Heavy Shields count as a one-handed weapon. Both are for purposes of using it with TWF. If you trust the FAQ and can use the shield as a primary weapon, you could theoretically use a Heavy Shield with two hands (no such luck with Light Shields).

    Not enough aid, but should give you an idea on how to rule around it.
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    It IS overpriced. For 2k less GP, you can get a Cognizance Crystal that does the same effect. The main differences is that the CC can only be used once before requiring recharge (this one recharges automatically per day), and you must use the PP on the same power you manifest, which cannot use power points from any other source (which, by RAW, means your own as well); hence, you can only use 2nd level powers with it. Cognizance crystals allow you to use PP from several sources.

    So yeah, overpriced. And if you go strictly RAW, also pretty worthless.
    This is why you buy arrows of manifesting to get 50 times the points for the same price. But yeah, not so useful on shields or armors.

    Also, Greater Healing is fcking God. The improvement from Healing (which ain't worth it) is staggering and the synergy with Revivify is simply faaabulous! [My Best Pegasus Imitation]
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Also, Greater Healing is fcking God. The improvement from Healing (which ain't worth it) is staggering and the synergy with Revivify is simply faaabulous! [My Best Pegasus Imitation]
    It's a shame it's armor-only (it would be awesome if it were armor + shield, for extra healing in combat) Still, since it's not exactly conjuration (healing), nor does it says anything (it only suggests so), you can enchant it on a Warforged's composite plating and it works better than a feat!
    If you're curious, Overload Metabolism.
    I'd still say Healing is decent, if only because by the time you have it accessible, you'll be wanting some healing. Since you require Healing for the upgrade, you don't lose anything (and it's not an enhancement bonus price either, so it's doubly good); furthermore, by the time you NEED some potent healing, you may already have the 24k needed. Just consider it a necessary investment.

    What makes it a tad less good is that you can't activate it if your HP goes lower than 9. If it would, it would be a definite lifesaver (you don't lose anything from attempting as many heals as possible if you're about to die, aren't you?); furthermore, it would be awesome to couple with Diehard/Immortal Fortitude. Keeping the auto-activation range from -1 to -9 makes it worthwhile, but sadly not where it's needed the most.

    Of course, no one says you can't ask for some homebrewed ruling for it, aye?
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    Default Re: [3.X] Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Lords of Madness has a feat on page 181 called Parrying Shield, which gives you your shield bonus (with enhancements) to touch AC without any prereq feats. I'd consider it to be more useful than Shield Ward, even though it doesn't add anything against Bull Rush et al.


    Edit: Aaaaaand I can't read. I could have sworn you didn't have this feat listed. My bad.
    Last edited by Zaq; 2009-09-04 at 04:51 PM.
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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    OK, I'm re-editing my entire first post to include all the great updates on the thread. I should have it posted in the next hour or two. Please keep the good tips coming in.

    Couple of questions:

    Ailurus, can you post your build. I'm happy to include it, but I'm at work and blocked from your link.

    If a shield has shield spikes, is it a piercing weapon, or a bludgeoning and piercing weapon? My sense is that it should be the latter, which would help out for DR and certain feats. But the RAW says "these spikes turn it into a martial piercing weapon."

    I'm under the impression that according to the FAQ, you can use a shield bash as a primary weapon, and thus use your shield as a two handed weapon. This is important for Captain America style builds, who might want to mix up a combination of two handed shield attacks (on a Charge or AoO), TWF or Agile Shield Fighter (on a full attack), and thrown shield attacks. But there's been some disagreement on the thread. Does anyone have a good definitive answer to this?
    PM'd a summary of the build to you PersonMan, can post it in here if that didn't work though.

    Also, while I don't know the official ruling, the DM for the campaign I'm in has let me use the shield as a primary attack (though never tried asking him about using it 2 handed). Shield bashing a devil 4x in one round (with three of them being smites) is fun.

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    Default Re: 3.X Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailurus View Post
    Also, while I don't know the official ruling, the DM for the campaign I'm in has let me use the shield as a primary attack (though never tried asking him about using it 2 handed). Shield bashing a devil 4x in one round (with three of them being smites) is fun.
    Add the shield the ability to stun and bullrush with a single attack (Brutal Surge + Screaming + Stunning); failing that, Brutal Surge Spiked Shield with White Raven Hammer. For the heck of it.
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    Default Re: [3.X] Person Man's Guide to Shields

    Build Concept:

    Captain America

    Warblade14/Bloodclaw Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4

    The Tactic: Use your Shield as a viable weapon in melee and at range.

    Bloodclaw Master allows your off-hand weapon (that is to say, your shield) to deal full Str damage (rather than 1/2) and negates the -2 penalty for TWFing. Of course, it only applies to Tiger Claw weapons, but there are ways around that little restriction

    Bloodstorm Blade 4 allows you to throw your shield at anyone and have it return instantly. You can also treat a thrown weapon as a melee weapon, which means you can Power Attack with them while throwing them, if you like.

    Also, I'm surprised you haven't made a bigger mention of Dungeoncrasher, which can do some pretty awesomely synergistic things with bull rushing with a shield.

    Also, another cheezy tactic:

    Heavy Shield +1 with Shield Spikes +1 Defending

    Shield Spikes are considered weapons which may be separately enchanted. So you enchant them with Defending, to get even MORE AC out of your shield. With a Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestments, your shield can be pimping out with +7 Shield AC and another +5 UNNAMED bonus to AC from Defending for a total of +12. Not too shabby.
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