Better Paladin Build?

[Jeff240sx]

Ok. A friend is a Paladin, but ... they kinda suck. Are there any decent builds out there? He doesn't have to be optimized, but something with a degree of power and flavor is pretty good. We're using a homebrew pantheon, so the domains are easy to make work for most builds.

I was thinking something like:

1 *Cloistered Cleric (War and another domain, + free Knowledge)
2 *C Cleric
3 *C Cleric
4 *C Cleric
5 Ordained Champion (CChamp) (Yet another domain)
6 *Prestige Paladin
7 Prestige Paladin
8 *Prestige Paladin
9 *Ordained Champion
10 *Ordained Champion
11 Fist of Raziel (BoED)
12 *Fist of Raziel
13 *Fist of Raziel
14 *Fist of Raziel
15 *Fist of Raziel
16 *Fist of Raziel
17 *Fist of Raziel
18 *Fist of Raziel
19 *Fist of Raziel
20 *Fist of Raziel

Adding up the *'s (caster level increases), its CL17, so it can cast 1 spell of 9th level (and 1 domain 9th, clearly). It also gives up only 1 BAB from the first cleric level, so it's +19 BAB.
It does give up Turning progression, leaving it at 10 (vs 17 of a full Paladin).

Is this about the normal Paladin build for including Prestige Paladin? If not, what else is out there?

Is there anything (feat, spell, PrC) that I'm missing that saves a Paladin from becoming awful later in the game?

[kamikasei]

The first and most important question is: what does "Paladin" mean to him? You can build a Lawful Good holy warrior using just Cleric, roleplay the oaths, and the only conspicuous thing you lose is the special mount.

[Starscream]

Cleric/Prestige paladin is pretty good. Much better spells.

I personally tried to fix the class by having them gain the Saint template over time. It's a fairly broken template, but because paladins are normally weak and they get it gradually, it works out okay.

[lsfreak]

The rebalanced paladin is one option; Fax's paladin is another. But depending on how you are with your fluff, you can build it a lot differently. I've built a rogue/assassin and called him a paladin.

[Saph]

Well, one of the traditional builds is the Sorcadin. Two levels of Paladin gets you Divine Grace and Detect Evil, then you take Sorcerer levels and go into Abjurant Champion as soon as possible. Makes for a pretty good tank. Something like Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champ 5.

[Fax Celestis]

The rebalanced paladin is one option; Fax's paladin is another. But depending on how you are with your fluff, you can build it a lot differently. I've built a rogue/assassin and called him a paladin.

And here I was going to link my Paladin. I guess I have reached the point where people are preempting me in pimping my own homebrew.

[Saint Nil]

If you have the Tome of Battle, the Crusader isn't a bad option.

[SurlySeraph]

That build looks pretty good to me. Since your Turn Undead will be too low-level to be relevant, you should take Divine Shield, Divine Metamagic (warning: allows extreme cheese, DM may disallow), or another feat that lets you burn Turn Undead uses to do something useful.

The Glory domain has good flavor and decent power for a paladin.

And here I was going to link my Paladin. I guess I have reached the point where people are preempting me in pimping my own homebrew.

I have seen several PbP games here where the list of approved sources notes "Anything by Fax Celestis, Krimm Blackleaf, or Demented One is automatically allowed." If I ever run a PbP game, I will include that clause. With particular emphasis on your Monk and Ranger rebalances.

[Keld Denar]

Build looks pretty good. I'd swap out one level of FoR for that 4th level of OC. Its basically DMM Quicken for all of your War domain spells. Action economy is a blast. Also, you calced your BAB wrong. Cloistered Cleric is only half BAB (like a wizard), so you'd have 18/20 BAB by 20.

Another build that is pretty Paladiny that I made up a while ago is Paladin5/Fighter2/DivineCrusader1/OrdainedChamp4/FistofRaz8. Its a bit of a late bloomer, casting wise, but its 19/20 BAB and gets 9th level spells from 2 domains. Travel is usually the domain I recommend to go with the War domain that you get from OC1.

Feats you are gonna want are things that take advantage of your TU abilty, which, as you said, is gonna be pretty stunted. Law Devotion (CChamp) is AMAZING. Depending on level, it gives +6, +10, +14 damage per hit when combined with a 2hander and PA. Awesome Smite (CChamp) is a tactical feat that gives you 3 things you can activate when you smite someone. The coolest is the ability to ignore miss chance. Pick up a Lesser Revelation Crystal from the MIC and you can unerringly hit phantom foes and light them up for your allies to trash. The Knockdown ability is good, especially if you can eck out the feats for Improved Trip, which would essentially give you 2 attacks every time you smite. And of course, automatically bypassing ALL DR is very very nice when you need it. You'll be smiting a lot with FoR and OC2, why not take a feat that turbocharges you.

I'd actually encourage you to stay away from Divine Might. Between Law Devotion and OC2's ability to burn TUs for smites, you'll be burning through a pretty limited resource REALLY fast. Add on Divine Might every round and you'll literally be hemohraging TU attempts.

[Eldariel]

Just straight Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 5/Fist of Raziel 10 is pretty good. Knight of the Raven works just as well as Fist of Raziel. If you want a Mount, you can indeed use Prestige Paladin, though that means you'll miss out on level 9 spells if you take Fist of Raziel or Knight of the Raven.

Cleric 4/Ordained Champion 5/Prestige Paladin 3/Church Inquisitor 8 still gets 9th level spells and 17 BAB though. Most importantly, you can take Holy Mount and get maxed level Mount that way. You also have Divine Grace and all that.

Crusader 1/Cleric 4/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10 is pretty frakkin' kickass Paladin too, but needs reflavouring to pick up LG.


And of course, everything stated in this thread.