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Thread: Will Save Feats

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Will Save Feats

    You have feats to use your constitution for will save, and the same for charisma (I believe). Is there a feat to use your int bonus for will save instead?

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Here is a helpful link. The formatting is a bit broken because of the new website, but this lists (almost) all ways of adding a stat to any bonus. Heck, the thread is named X stat to Y bonus.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    I don't know of any INT-based save feats, but there's also a DEX-based Will save: Dexterous Will.

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    That's a reflex save, not a dex-based will save.

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    MonkGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Using the Martial Study feat to grab Moment of Perfect Mind will get you a Concentration check to replace a Will save. I only mentioned it in case you're playing a caster, since they tend to have Concentration maxed. Perhaps more about why you're looking for Int to Will saves could help people suggest workable alternatives.
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    Dhavaer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    There's a feat from a Dragon Magazine, I think it's called Keen Intellect, that replaces Wis with Int for Will save, Spot, Sense Motive and Survival checks, and maybe a few other things.
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    Cyclocone's Avatar

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by sofawall View Post
    That's a reflex save, not a dex-based will save.
    Does it matter? It just means you boost your Reflex save modifiers, and use Reflex in place of Will.

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Does it matter? It just means you boost your Reflex save modifiers, and use Reflex in place of Will.
    What if you have a good will save progression and a low reflex, but have a low wisdom and want to use dex instead? With a low wis and average dex, will could still beat reflex using their proper stats.
    Last edited by sofawall; 2009-09-04 at 09:06 AM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    My question would be what people think of the balance of these feats. Force of Personality seems overpowered to me - one feat for a potentially huge increase on a will save; Cha-based classes tend to have strong will progressions, too.

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Epinephrine View Post
    My question would be what people think of the balance of these feats. Force of Personality seems overpowered to me - one feat for a potentially huge increase on a will save; Cha-based classes tend to have strong will progressions, too.
    Charisma is the weakest stat in the game, and many Cha-focused classes are weaker than other classes (Paladin, Bard). It isn't overpowered in the least, seeing as you can just target their Fort save and still screw them.

    No, the feat that's overpowered for saves would be Dex to Fort/Will, seeing as Dex governs so many other abilities and Con only governs 3 things (one of which is HP, but still). Even then, saying its a broken feat would be stretching it. Its a definite boost to Dex-focused builds as it means they don't have to worry about their Fort saves as much. Wis doesn't govern anything other than the saves, a couple of skills (most of which will be maxed out anyway), and spellcasting ability (meaningless to a Rogue).

    No, I don't think the feat itself is broken, I think Dex is just an overpumped stat. It governs Ranged attacks (and normal attacks with another feat), skills, Armor Class, Init, and a save. Int covers spellcasting and skills. Str covers Carrying capacity, attack rolls, damage, and 4 or so skills. Wis covers a save, skills, and spellcasting. Cha governs 4 skills (one of which is a game-breaker as-written) and spellcasting. Con has HP, Fort, and a single skill.

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Epinephrine View Post
    My question would be what people think of the balance of these feats. Force of Personality seems overpowered to me - one feat for a potentially huge increase on a will save; Cha-based classes tend to have strong will progressions, too.
    FoP is only for will saves vs mind affecting spells/abilities.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    FoP is only for will saves vs mind affecting spells/abilities.
    Ooh, nice limitation! And Steadfast determination needs Endurance, so it's really two feats :)

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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    But Keen Intellect not only doesn't have a prerequisite, not only applies to all will saves, but also replaces Wis with Int for a few skills. That's pure awesome right there. For a Wizard especially since your will saves jumps for like 8.
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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    FoP can be pretty decent. CHA to will vs Fear, Mind-Control, Holding and Symbols can be worth the investment. It may be better than Endurance + Steadfast Determination (as far as the total number of feat-to-benefit ratio goes), if you already have the means to limit how easily you can be thwarted by other Will-save effects.

    For instance, if you fail a save against Slow, all you need is Haste to counter it. Boots of Speed activate as a free action, and will negate the effect entirely.

    You'll still have to worry about a few Touch spells (Imprisonment, Plane Shift), as well as Figments, though.
    Last edited by Deepblue706; 2009-09-04 at 02:52 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Will Save Feats

    Quote Originally Posted by Epinephrine View Post
    My question would be what people think of the balance of these feats. Force of Personality seems overpowered to me - one feat for a potentially huge increase on a will save; Cha-based classes tend to have strong will progressions, too.
    Well force of personality is more limited then just cha to will. It only works against mind affecting spells and abilities if I am recalling it correctly.

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