Converting Spells to Necromancy?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Is there a way to switch spells from one school of magic to another?

[Chrono22]

On the face of it the solution is simple- re-skin a spell description and change the school.
But actually, doing this too much means that schools lose meaning. The functionality and purpose of a spell is invariably tied to its school (and source).

Look at it this way. The plane of shadow is shifting and distorted reflection of reality. By it's very nature, it is a place of half truths and falsities. Rewriting zone of truth to become Illusion (Shadow) would make the spell effects less credible.

[Xefas]

I can't recall any official way to do so, but I don't think it'd be particularly difficult to either refluff or research old spells as necromancy, considering 3.5 classifies "Necromancy" as "Anything Spooky".

So, Magic Missile ---> Doooom Missile, and have it shoot shrieking skulls of force instead of bolts.

It makes about as much sense as most of the other school classifications in 3.5.

[Chrono22]

It makes about as much sense as most of the other school classifications in 3.5.

Um, got anything to back up this claim with?

Granted, they weren't perfect, but they hands down beat all other magic classifications (with the exception of Mage the Awakening).

[Dragonmuncher]

It might help if you tell us why you want to do this. If you're a specialist Wizard, there might be something in one of the non-core books that can do what you want.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Forgot to mention: This is for the Test of Spite. I need it to be legal, unfortanately

[Chrono22]

Well, then all you really have to go on is shadow conjuration and shadow evocation. They're in the srd.

[Teron]

I do know one way to change a spell's school, from Unearthed Arcana (and the SRD):

Spell Versatility (Ex)
A 5th-level transmuter using this variant can adapt magic of other schools to his own style of spellcasting. For every five class levels that the transmuter gains, he can select one spell of any spell level that he has access to and treat it as if it were a transmutation spell. This means, for example, that the specialist can learn the spell normally and even prepare it as a bonus spell from the transmutation school. This spell can even be from a school that he has chosen as a prohibited school. Once a spell is chosen to be affected by this ability, it cannot be changed.

For example, a transmutation specialist using this variant has selected abjuration and necromancy as his prohibited schools. At 5th level, he gains access to 3rd-level spells. He chooses dispel magic and forever after treats dispel magic as if were a transmutation spell.

A transmuter using this variant does not gain bonus feats for advancing as a wizard.

I suppose that doesn't help Olo Demonsbane, though.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Let me be extremely specific: I need to get a SoD Necromancy spell of 5th or 6th level. There don't really appear to be any So I thought I'd try to shift either...say...Dominate Person or maybe Flesh to Stone to Necromancy. And it has to be necromancy, unfortunately.

[Chrono22]

Um... I believe there is a domain power that gives you a (somewhat limited) SoD effect from level 1 up.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm.

[sofawall]

Domain Wizard is banned, and don't they pick from specific domains anyway, not just any Cleric domain?

[Chrono22]

Who said anything about playing a wizard? Clerics make far better necromancers.

[Teron]

Circle of death? Magic jar? Heightened ghoul touch? Slay living via Arcane Disciple (Death)?

[Sinfire Titan]

Let me be extremely specific: I need to get a SoD Necromancy spell of 5th or 6th level. There don't really appear to be any So I thought I'd try to shift either...say...Dominate Person or maybe Flesh to Stone to Necromancy. And it has to be necromancy, unfortunately.

Hold Monster, Dominate Person, hell, there's probably some in the Spell Compendium.

There's always Shivering Touch...

[AmberVael]

Opalescent Glare, 6th level Sorcerer/Wizard necromancy spell in the Spell Compendium.
Only works on Evil creatures though...

There's also Heartfreeze, a level 6 necromancy spell in Frostburn. It IS a save or die, but the creature gets a few rounds to function before they make the save. (1d3+2, specifically).

Choking Sands in Sandstorm kinda fits. Fortitude save or start suffocating. 5th level necromancy.

There's also Ashen Union. Deals damage- but if it deals half the target's current HP in damage, it becomes a save or die as well.

[olentu]

Let me be extremely specific: I need to get a SoD Necromancy spell of 5th or 6th level. There don't really appear to be any So I thought I'd try to shift either...say...Dominate Person or maybe Flesh to Stone to Necromancy. And it has to be necromancy, unfortunately.

Well from the spell compendium there is wrack. It makes the subject fall prone and become blinded and helpless.

[AmberVael]

Wait, I missed one. Its perfect.

Mummify, Sandstorm.
Level 6 necromancy spell for cleric, wizard, and druid.
Touch range, one living target. Fortitude save or die.

[sofawall]

Who said anything about playing a wizard? Clerics make far better necromancers.

Well, Clerics don't care about schools, usually. I automatically assumed wizards.

Also? Clerics cannot be Necromancers. Only Specialized Wizards can :P

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Um, got anything to back up this claim with?

Granted, they weren't perfect, but they hands down beat all other magic classifications (with the exception of Mage the Awakening).

Mage Armor:Conjuration, Shield:Abjuration. What's the difference between the 2?
Cure X Wounds:Conjuration, Inflict X Wounds:Necromancy. And if you want to claim Necro is negative energy, I direct you to Disrupt Undead.
Need I go on?

[Alteran]

Mage Armor:Conjuration, Shield:Abjuration. What's the difference between the 2?
Cure X Wounds:Conjuration, Inflict X Wounds:Necromancy. And if you want to claim Necro is negative energy, I direct you to Disrupt Undead.
Need I go on?

The issue isn't "Are they bad?", it's "What are they worse than?"

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The issue isn't "Are they bad?", it's "What are they worse than?"

2e and AQ:Jaern had reasonable systems, as, apparently, did Mage. And there have been multiple homebrew fixes to the WotC system, most of which are far better.

And this ignores the various video game systems that also work well.

[lsfreak]

Um, got anything to back up this claim with?

Mind manipulation is Enchantment, unless of course it's Illusion. Or unless it's fear, that's Necromancy, except when it's not.

Elemental energy is evocation, except when it's Conjuration or Necromancy or Abjuration or Transmutation.

Protections are Abjuration, except when they're Conjuration.

Transportation is Conjuration, unless of course it's Transmutation.

Should I continue?

[Chrono22]

{Scrubbed}

[Olo Demonsbane]

Wait, I missed one. Its perfect.

Mummify, Sandstorm.
Level 6 necromancy spell for cleric, wizard, and druid.
Touch range, one living target. Fortitude save or die.

I assume sorcerer as well?

Thanks Vael, you're a life saver

Does this have any subtypes or restrictions? Sandstorm and Frostburn are two of the few books I dont own...

[AmberVael]

I assume sorcerer as well?

Yes. Sorcerer/Wizard, as normal.

Thanks Vael, you're a life saver

Does this have any subtypes or restrictions? Sandstorm and Frostburn are two of the few books I dont own...

No subtypes.
You can use spell resistance against it...

Standard action casting time.
Fortitude partial- on a successful save they take 6d6 dessication damage and are dehydrated (rules for the damage type and dehydration can be found in Sandstorm).

If the target dies- whether they die from the damage or a failed save- they are mummified and their body preserved.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Awesome, thanks.

Eat DC 34 Save or Die

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Your post betrays a deep ignorance of the schools of magic and their numerous subschools.
Do your homework. The difference between a figment and a compulsion is obvious- but only if you actually know what those words mean.

You responded to one out of several issues raised, and didn't even address that one. The problem with those 2 schools is that both create the same response. Illusion changes what the target sees, Enchantment changes what they think. The fluff is the only thing that seperates the 2 of them, and often the fluff is nigh-identical.

My point is that the magics of the real world are so numerous, varied and ill-defined, that I think it's ironic that you expect a system such as DnD to do better.

Say wha? I'm reminded of this.

The schools of magic have a measure of overlap by design. If they were overly specific, then DnD's magic wouldn't be expansive enough, as it couldn't mimic the many differing magical traditions of history.

Except that 3.x's magic mimics NOTHING. And while you may claim the overlap is intended, the end result is that 3 schools can do almost anything the other 5 can, and more. Not even the schools that the designers thought mattered, either(Evoc was considered the most powerful by the developers). I'm not asking much, just a system of magic that makes sense.

[lsfreak]

-snip-

The problem is, it is arbitrary. Completely so. The schools have very clear definitions, laid out in the PHB, and then WotC spent the next 6 years trampelling all over those descriptions. One of the results is that, mechanically speaking, Conjuration, Transmutation, and Illusion are leaps and bounds more powerful than all the other schools. Including Illusion having better defenses than the defensive school and Conjuration having better attacks than the attacking school.

Explain to me why lighting plus teleportation is Transmutation when the base schools for those are evocation and/or conjuration. Why is one spell Enchantment (compulsion) and another is Necromancy, when both directly manipulate the mind to force someone to be afraid (without being figments or phantasms). Why is pulling energy from every plane Conjuration, unless that plane happens to be the Negative Energy Plane? Try and explain Orbs within the rules without realizing that it's hilariously stupid that they're in Conjuration.

[AmberVael]

Explain to me why lighting plus teleportation is Transmutation when the base schools for those are evocation and/or conjuration.

But this one actually makes sense. Lightning leap isn't summoning lightning and then vanishing, it is changing into a lightning bolt, zapping through someone, and changing back.

I mean, I agree that the schools are horribly wack, but I don't agree with that example.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Explain to me why lighting plus teleportation is Transmutation when the base schools for those are evocation and/or conjuration.

I can actually explain that one: You turn yourself into the lightning bolt, changing back after discharging. At least, that was the impression I got from it...

EDIT: Ninja'd