The Four Horsemen 3.5

[ondonaflash]

What I would like is advice on what to include and how to make them work. For those who aren't familiar with them the Four Horsemen of the Christian Apocalypse are the Heralds of the End of the World and ride before the Legions of Heaven and Hell. They are War (Who rides a red horse), Famine (A black horse), Pestilence (A white horse), and Death who is significantly more powerful than all the rest, but rides behind them. They kind of clear humanity out of the way so the Hosts can fight.

I don't have a draft of them yet, what I want is some brain storming to help me get my thoughts in order.

[Mulletmanalive]

The riders are depicted in d20: Apocalypse.

The creatures aren't really described in the Revelation to John and aren't mentioned in Enoch or the Apocalypse of David.

Pop culture has Death as a skeletal figure with eyes that show the absolute darkness of the void beyond creation. The scythe was, oddly, something that was added to the depiction in the 13th to 14th century and was especially popular in the victorian period. Ironically, it was meant to symbolise plague.

Pestilence carries a bow and is wracked with sores. The d20 version has an aura of Anthrax and a touch of Necrotising Phaceitis. The two obvious options are to portray him as a withered disease victim or a hooded plague-gatherer [with the long nosed masks that make them look like rats].

Pestilence would be my nominee for a female character. a female war has been done and female Famine or Death would be almost unrecognisable.

Famine carries scales and rides a wracked horse or cow that would happily consume larger animals with great speed. The two obvious possibilities are an emaciated man or a fat one.

War is fairly mutable. His common demonstration is red armour in a nordic style. I personally like the idea of his not being armed, instead causing strife around him.

My current working idea is that as he rides, the Dogs of War form around his horse and spread out to strike at foes.

I have takes on these sorts of things in the works but i'll help here as mine aren't intended for 3.5

[The Tygre]

Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary has the Four Horsemen template, which, as implied, allows you to make any set of beings into the Four Horsemen. The power level, of course, depends on what is applied to. The Immortal's Handbook and Pathfinder has the Horsemen as the rulers of the NE outsiders, with Death always at the head.

[Blue Ghost]

Maybe make them some fiends or similar with class levels? Famine could be a blighter, Pestilence could be a cancer mage, Death can be a lich necromancer of some kind, and War... I don't know what class there is that can cause strife, but there's probably one out there.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

I see all 4 as being treated as Clerics and Paladins (with levels equal to their HD) when determining turning use, casting abilities, and mount traits. That said, I see Death as a Sagacious Evolved Ghost. What CR were you looking for with this lot? That'd help when figuring out just what to make the bloody things.

[ondonaflash]

CRs in the epic levels, I'm thinking upper twenties to thirty. I drew my color scheme from Good Omens, but the descriptions of them in the bible are kind of vague and open to interpretation. I'd probably apply a fiend, or fiend-like template to them, things like poison, diseases, mind control, shouldn't affect them. Death especially should probably be extremely powerful because Death, unlike War, Famine, or Pestilence, is eternal and unstoppable. That being said, they should also be pretty neutral. They aren't on the side of good or evil, they're clearing the way for the big battle.

[KaganMonk]

Good Omens is probably a great place to start, especially with War. War needs to be a master at fighting, as well as able to incite others to war with each other. No army can stand against War, for they will simply fight themselves. Epic characters will be able to make saves, but their armies will fragment or turn upon them. And War will do his utmost to crush them personally.

Famine and Pestilence go hand in hand, for where there is malnutrition, disease is sure to follow. Famine takes the vitality from the land. Water dries up and Earth crumbles. The Air is still, and only Fire remains. His touch is dangerous and leaves the receiver weak or withered.

Pestilence stalks the land with the vermin and insects as his heralds. They lay low the strong and steal away the life of the weak. He culls the sickly from the pack and weakens the leaders. He makes the final way for their leader, Death.

Death is everywhere, and nowhere. It is eternal, so long as mortals inhabit the earth. It can be slowed, but never stopped. Held at bay, but ever inevitable. Without the others, Death is lessened, but never defeated. It will be the last to pass into eternity, when all mortals have gone before.


And you apparently caught me in a slightly poetic mood. I'd suggest giving each of them a broader power to use in the world, and a couple more specific powers to use in combat. Unleash them as separate entities around your world before gathering them for the Armageddon. They are a party, just as the adventurers are a party, so have them work well together. If Death is truely Immortal, have him bow in defeat when the others are killed/banished, and promise that the end will come (eventually). It just doesn't seem right to be able to defeat Death entirely without him consenting to it.

[Dancing_Zephyr]

I thought the four horsemen were Conquest, War, Famine and Death.
I read that they were the four things the tribes of Israel feared.
Conquest from another kingdom. White horse, with a crown given a bow.
War between the tribes. Red horse given a large sword.
Famine, most people fear this. Black horse, given scales.
Death, from disease. Pale, greenish-yellow, horse, given a forth of the earth to kill

[kwanzaabot]

Good Omens is probably a great place to start...

...Death is everywhere, and nowhere. It is eternal, so long as mortals inhabit the earth. It can be slowed, but never stopped. Held at bay, but ever inevitable. Without the others, Death is lessened, but never defeated. It will be the last to pass into eternity, when all mortals have gone before.

Another Neil Gaiman-related avenue to explore would be Death as an unnervingly cheerful goth girl with a cool ankh necklace.

That's not to say I don't adore Terry Pratchett's version of DEATH, but it's been kind of done to death, if you'll excuse the pun.

[ondonaflash]

I thought the four horsemen were Conquest, War, Famine and Death.
I read that they were the four things the tribes of Israel feared.
Conquest from another kingdom. White horse, with a crown given a bow.
War between the tribes. Red horse given a large sword.
Famine, most people fear this. Black horse, given scales.
Death, from disease. Pale, greenish-yellow, horse, given a forth of the earth to kill

Different interpretation, Pestilence makes for a better enemy than conquest.

[Blue Ghost]

I thought the four horsemen were Conquest, War, Famine and Death.
I read that they were the four things the tribes of Israel feared.
Conquest from another kingdom. White horse, with a crown given a bow.
War between the tribes. Red horse given a large sword.
Famine, most people fear this. Black horse, given scales.
Death, from disease. Pale, greenish-yellow, horse, given a forth of the earth to kill

Yes, if you look in the biblical text, there clearly is not a separate horseman for Pestilence. That was a rather silly reinterpretation from the time of the Black Death, if I recall correctly.
I do prefer the original, but since the new Four Horsemen have taken so much deeper root in contemporary culture, I'll reluctantly roll with it.

[Limos]

Pestilence isn't really a Horsemen.

It's Conquest, War, Famine and Death.

Conquest sometimes gets changed to Death and Death to Pestilence since Death is supposed to ride a Pale horse (which is depicted as a sickly green color) while Conquest rides White which is then changed to skeletal for Death.

Conquest is also sometimes the Antichrist.


Edit: Also if you go by the Piers Anthony Incarnations series then you get sub horsemen for war which are Pestilence, Conquest, and Slaughter. Where Death is his own separate incarnation and Famine doesn't show up at all.

I like to have a whole horde of Horsemen all representing various concepts and evils like Itchy Socks and Milk Gone Sour.

[KaganMonk]

Famine is actually a separate Horseman in Weilding a Red Sword. In fact, he's the first one Mym meets, when Mym is still a human.